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I for one really hope it gets big ! I'm at a crossroad as to whether it should run android apps or not...

Yes, I'm sure a micro-kernel which needs to waste energy on IPC is going to be more efficient. Even L4 which tried to eliminate the overhead didn't find a real niche until it focused on security at the cost of performance.

There's no reason not to use Linux - except they don't want to share their kernel modules with GPL. Not very red of them, I have to say.

Even if this is true, what's surprising about that?

The Linux kernel is being developed by a bunch of enthusiasts literally on their own, it is not a commercial product.

Huawei developers are well paid. They are professionals.

Linux, even with all its poor architecture, suffers not from the quality of the kernel, but from the UI in general, because... Not a single shell comes close to the usability of Windows and the convenience/ease of installing software and configuring it. That is why, despite the status of a "free" product, Linux is still in oblivion on the market, for more than 25 years, with its pitiful 2-3% of the market.

There are no miracles - professionals obviously do everything better, because... they have a vested interest in this.

Quote from: NikoB on January 20, 2024, 12:28:28Even if this is true, what's surprising about that?
The Linux kernel is being developed by a bunch of enthusiasts literally on their own, it is not a commercial product.
Huawei developers are well paid. They are professionals.

So you say that Linux kernel contributors from Intel, AMD, IBM, Google, Nvidia, Microsoft are enthusiasts?

Quote from: NikoB on January 20, 2024, 12:28:28Linux, even with all its poor architecture, suffers not from the quality of the kernel, but from the UI in general

Sorry, I can't follow. So "kernel is made by enthusiasts but it's fine"?
For UI it's clearly offtopic here and very questionable argument, especially when compared to Windows.

Quote from: NikoB on January 20, 2024, 12:28:28That is why, despite the status of a "free" product, Linux is still in oblivion on the market, for more than 25 years, with its pitiful 2-3% of the market.

Is that why 100% of the top 500 super-computers run linux?
Or how about 96.3% of all the web servers in the world run linux?
The pro world runs on linux, including Google, Facebook, you name it, they are all built on linux.
Oh, and you really believe this vapoware from Huawei? It's never going to happen. Developing a kernel is hard work, not something 🤡 at Huawei can figure out.

Linux is the best... THE BEST!!!! :)

I've been using Linux as my daily driver for about 15 years now (at work and at home), it's awesome. I just can't get my head around your assertions, they seem so strange to me.

Right, Linux, which is the standard operating system ALL large compute centers are running, and all development of software and compilers are based on... Will be replaced by a shitty, "secure" OS from Huawei.  No one will be worried about kernel level back doors for the Chinese government by software from Huawei, I'm totally sure it will get adopted.  Dream on.

Quote from: NikoB on January 20, 2024, 12:28:28Even if this is true, what's surprising about that?

The Linux kernel is being developed by a bunch of enthusiasts literally on their own, it is not a commercial product. [...]

This is by far the stupidest comment I've read this month. Educate yourself before posting this kind of idiotic bullcrap. Not a commercial product... Simply hilarious 😂 I bet you're American...

Quote from: Yevhen on January 20, 2024, 13:13:50So you say that Linux kernel contributors from Intel, AMD, IBM, Google, Nvidia, Microsoft are enthusiasts?

You apparently haven't watched Nolan's next creation about Oppenheimer - if there is no unifying force, nothing will work out, as the share of Linux distributions on the market after 25 years of development has proven. Swan, crayfish and pike require a conductor. It doesn't exist in Linux. On Windows there is.

Quote from: Yevhen on January 20, 2024, 13:13:50For UI it's clearly offtopic here and very questionable argument, especially when compared to Windows

This is a concrete argument that proves, 25 years later, why Linux is still miserably losing market share to paid Windows. By the way, with W10 it is actually free from MS, unofficially, but free.

Quote from: AndyChow on January 20, 2024, 14:16:59Is that why 100% of the top 500 super-computers run linux?

Again a pointless argument. We were talking about market share among the population and business. Not the server segment. The share of Linkus and all distributions combined is negligible, just like 25 years ago.

Quote from: AndyChow on January 20, 2024, 14:16:59Oh, and you really believe this vapoware from Huawei?

I don't believe anything. Anyone who reads me knows this all the time.

Quote from: AndyChow on January 20, 2024, 14:16:59Developing a kernel is hard work, not something 🤡 at Huawei can figure out.

Not at all. This is the coordinated work of well-paid brains. Is it a question of the availability of brains in China. ;)

Quote from: Mnemonic Carrier on January 20, 2024, 16:31:09Linux is the best... THE BEST!!!! :)

I've been using Linux as my daily driver for about 15 years now (at work and at home), it's awesome. I just can't get my head around your assertions, they seem so strange to me.

With that I congratulate you. But 80%+ of the world's population (outside of Android) use Windows.

Quote from: Finnysrg on January 20, 2024, 17:19:00Will be replaced by a shitty, "secure" OS from Huawei.  No one will be worried about kernel level back doors for the Chinese government by software from Huawei, I'm totally sure it will get adopted. 

I can immediately name a bunch of holes in all Linux kernels that have not been fixed for 20 years. Just like in Windows.

There are no safe OSes, there are people with the right mentality, critical thinking, who are able to adequately assess the risks of using any software. Unfortunately, people like me make up about 0.1% of the planet's population. Best case scenario. The rest take everything on faith. But faith constantly plays a cruel joke on them...

Um those here talking about windows must not understand that unix-like & Linux is used in the majority the server and global backbone of the Internet

Did you know that Microsoft made 3x more money from Linux than Windows? They did it from the cloud services that all uses GNU/Linux.
The fact is all the big fish use Linux while Windows are used by small fry. How much does a Windows license? it's just $200 apiece, while my Azure instance that runs Linux cost me (my business)  $3500 a month, a whopping 15x price difference.
Microsoft can just ditch Windows then stay afloat anyway, the same can't be said for Linux.

I would include links but NBC doesn't allow me, still, it's from Microsoft income statement for Q4Y23, Google it up or use Bing (lol), wait, those two search engines runs Linux instead of Windows?!

(Do note that personal computing also includes Xbox, the more accurate number should be $6-8B. Nevertheless, still a far cry from $24B generated from Linux.)

Windows cornerstone, M$ base. If you remove it, everything will collapse. This is the cement that binds everything.

Quote from: NikoB on January 20, 2024, 12:28:28Not a single shell comes close to the usability of Windows and the convenience/ease of installing software and configuring it.

One can immediately tell this Windows shill has never actually tried Linux.

So, I'm supposed to trust the "security" of an OS from a Chinese company?

Everyone knows the only true secure kernel comes from Green Hills Software.  The INTEGRITY kernel is found on secure phones, tablets, workstations, and laptops used by defense department and TLA agencies in addition to secure devices on fighter jets and commercial planes. The DawnOS is next level.

Quote from: pete_f_1234 on January 21, 2024, 14:19:33So, I'm supposed to trust the "security" of an OS from a Chinese company?

Nah, avoid. OSes with confirmed NSA backdoors (amongst many others) are way more secure and trustworthy.

If a person has not personally audited the code, he cannot be 100% sure of its security. An audit of another person is based on trust in that person or organization.

When trust is lost between everyone, there is no more secure code and programs in the world.

All other cases are banal corruption between those who pretend to trust and nothing more.

It's easy to make a brand new more efficient kernel. Actually, if you make something new, not burdened by legacy compatibility, I would expect much better "efficiency" than a 3x multiple.

Quote from: NikoB on January 20, 2024, 12:28:28Not a single shell comes close to the usability of Windows and the convenience/ease of installing software and configuring it.

This has to be satire, right?

Installing software through your distro's official package manager (whether command line or using a graphical interface) is significantly easier, quicker, and more secure than googling for a piece of software and downloading and running an exe, with the chance of being tricked by sponsored results into downloading malware, or "encouraged" by the exe to install additional bloatware.

Gnome and KDE are fully functioning desktop environments that are easy to use and more customizable than Windows.

Quote from: NikoB on January 20, 2024, 12:28:28Even if this is true, what's surprising about that?

The Linux kernel is being developed by a bunch of enthusiasts literally on their own, it is not a commercial product.

Huawei developers are well paid. They are professionals.

Linux, even with all its poor architecture, suffers not from the quality of the kernel, but from the UI in general, because... Not a single shell comes close to the usability of Windows and the convenience/ease of installing software and configuring it. That is why, despite the status of a "free" product, Linux is still in oblivion on the market, for more than 25 years, with its pitiful 2-3% of the market.

There are no miracles - professionals obviously do everything better, because... they have a vested interest in this.

.

Please don't speak on topics you don't understand.

The absolute best developers in the world develop the Kinyx kernel, those employed by mega-corps like IBM and baking 300k+ a year.

Huawei developers probably make 1/50th of that.

Quote from: pete_f_1234 on January 21, 2024, 14:19:33So, I'm supposed to trust the "security" of an OS from a Chinese company?

so i should trust USA that are worst scum ever existed on this planet?

Kernel's aren't important. Specifically, they are not business-differentiating. That means they don't make your product look better than your competitor's product. Users never see them, never interact with them. Kernel performance isn't important. It is a tiny percentage of the time used by the application. IPC cost isn't important. It was when processors ran at 60 MHz, but we are long past that and IPC performance is a tiny fraction of network performance, which nearly every application _is_ dependent upon. Filesystem performance isn't important. It was in the day of rotating disks, which had seek delays and rotational delays that solid-state storage doesn't have.

But you still need a kernel, and it has to be reliable, and security is one of its features but a secure kernel won't help you with a less-secure application.

So, what do you do? Use one of the Open Source kernels. Besides Linux there is BSD, and there are several others. Spend as little of your time and money on these as you can, then spend the rest of your time and money developing things that will differentiate your product from your competitors, because that's the only reason anyone will buy them. Not a kernel.

I've seen this same mistake many times now. Nokia did it with Symbian (remember them?) HP spent a Billion putting IPV6 and other modern features in HP/UX while IBM was going to Linux. Who do you think won?

Quote from: Bruce Perens on January 22, 2024, 00:33:46Who do you think won?

Windows and Microsoft. Because no other team has been able to offer something more valuable on the market in 35 years.

Lol these comparisons are hilarious; it's like saying that road legal cars (Windows) won against prototypes and Formula 1 cars (Linux) just because there is more of them, while completely ignoring that one side is focused on regular consumers and other of large business and corporations. Even Microsoft runs Linux on their servers, that alone says enough.

Quotewon against prototypes and Formula 1 cars (Linux)

An extremely funny comparison. All Linux distributions available to the masses are, in reality, Trabants from eastern Germany during the USSR.

What Linux distros are the Swiss Knifes?

Quote from: NikoB on January 22, 2024, 16:53:24

Quotewon against prototypes and Formula 1 cars (Linux)

An extremely funny comparison. All Linux distributions available to the masses are, in reality, Trabants from eastern Germany during the USSR.

So you are just a stupid troll, gotcha.