NotebookCHECK - Notebook Forum

Overclocked memory (the H series only supports 5200) is a plus, but for that price they could have installed 32x2 right away.

Otherwise, a very boring and at the same time dangerous for the eyes laptop, with a color resolution lower than stated.

With a cropped, non-classic keyboard and a lot of other shortcomings.

It would be interesting to hear the opinion of Lenovo marketers - who was this machine conceived for, who is the target audience?

Quoteonly supports one internal SSD

Up to 8 TB (2 x 4 TB) PCIe Gen4 Performance NVMe SSD - from Lenovo site, although even in the photo you can see that there are two m.2 slots...

Quote from: NikoB on December 08, 2023, 23:43:50

Quoteonly supports one internal SSD

Up to 8 TB (2 x 4 TB) PCIe Gen4 Performance NVMe SSD - from Lenovo site, although even in the photo you can see that there are two m.2 slots...

You lose one of the slots if you get a model with the vapor chamber cooling.

Quote from: NikoB on December 08, 2023, 23:36:24Overclocked memory (the H series only supports 5200) is a plus, but for that price they could have installed 32x2 right away.

Otherwise, a very boring and at the same time dangerous for the eyes laptop, with a color resolution lower than stated.

With a cropped, non-classic keyboard and a lot of other shortcomings.

It would be interesting to hear the opinion of Lenovo marketers - who was this machine conceived for, who is the target audience?

This is marketed toward creative professionals> I had a gen 5 and even with the thermals, the machine would throttle due to the intel processors and dGPU in such a tiny space. Add to that the lack of decent wide gamut non OLED display options, the absolutely awful keyboard typing experience and horrible battery life, I would never recommend this machine.

I moved over to a custom T14s Gen 3 AMD with an x1 carbon 500nit 4k IPS display coupled with an eGPU (when I need it) and never looked back. Better thermals, better display, better battery life, better typing experience. The P1 series has lots of design issues.

QuoteOnly Optimus 1.0 is supported with no Advanced Optimus or MUX options which is a bit disappointing considering the high-end RTX 4080 GPU.

There is MUX (https://imgur.com/Ml8dchd).

Quote from: NikoB on December 08, 2023, 23:36:24with a color resolution lower than stated.

The color resolution is a proper 3840(RGB)x2400. I understand that the matrix looks odd, but if you could put aside any reservations against its shaping and shifting compared to IPS panels, you will be able to see that each pixel is allocated its own independent red, green, and blue dots (actually, two blues per). I have this panel (a non-touch version), and it passes the MS Paint black-background line test at 100% zoom for all three primaries. The PWM, refresh rate, and glossy coating may not be ideal, but there is no funny business going on with its color resolution. It meets the advertised spec.

The "market" is whoever wants a laptop with the specifications the model offers.  I purchased a P1 G6 because it was the only laptop that offered the following:

- 4K glossy OLED display
- RTX 4090 or RTX 5000 Ada (Laptop) GPU
- HDMI 2.1 port

It gets bonus points for being moderately sized and not having a number pad.  I only wish it had an AMD CPU.

Quote from: Bizarro_NikoB on December 08, 2023, 23:58:23This is marketed toward creative professionals

I would like to receive a more precise description - what kind of class is this? What exactly will they do with it?

Quote from: Ednumero on December 09, 2023, 05:57:21I understand that the matrix looks odd, but if you could put aside any reservations against its shaping and shifting compared to IPS panels, you will be able to see that each pixel is allocated its own independent red, green, and blue dots (actually, two blues per).

Unfortunately, looking at the macro photo, I don't see this; I see obvious black holes and a discrepancy between the color resolution and the stated one. There is no 4k, like on IPS.

Quote from: NikoB on December 09, 2023, 11:31:20Unfortunately, looking at the macro photo, I don't see this; I see obvious black holes and a discrepancy between the color resolution and the stated one. There is no 4k, like on IPS.

This is 4K; each pixel has its own R, G, and 2 B subpixels.  The gaps are due to the different sizes of each subpixel.  The pattern is obvious - each gap defines a group of 4 R, 4 G, and 8 B subpixels.

The author of the review should highlight a group of one pixel in the macro photo with a red frame so that this is clear. This is not clear to me from the macro photo. Your explanations do not suit me. I assume that this panel does not correspond to 4k resolution in color.

My God, Intel's disastrous performance and to top it all off, this Intel Core i7-13800H without Artificial Intelligence and at excessively high prices for its performance, the only thing worth it is the GeForce RTX 4080. I don't even mention the rest because I think that a cutting-edge Intel processor generation is built at 10nm+++++ and while AMD is already going for 4nm and so that means better performance, less consumption and less heat.

Poor Emma fell for the marketing trick that nm were exact measures.

Quote from: NikoB on December 10, 2023, 13:22:37The author of the review should highlight a group of one pixel in the macro photo with a red frame so that this is clear. This is not clear to me from the macro photo. Your explanations do not suit me. I assume that this panel does not correspond to 4k resolution in color.

I've highlighted four pixels, each with their own distinct RGB subpixels.  The same pattern is repeated.

PixelsHighlighted.jpg

Even if you're right, black holes clearly result in noticeable dark streaks in light scenes. What the authors of reviews have already noted more than once, i.e. the picture is not identical in monolithicity, the same in resolution of the IPS panel

Quote from: NikoB on December 11, 2023, 00:07:26Even if you're right, black holes clearly result in noticeable dark streaks in light scenes. What the authors of reviews have already noted more than once, i.e. the picture is not identical in monolithicity, the same in resolution of the IPS panel

Do the reviewers have any actual evidence that this is the result of the subpixel structure and not some other reason?  Are the reviewers noticing the same effect on other displays such as phones that typically have even less monolithic pixel structures? 

This is a 282 PPI display that is considered retina from 11" and the gaps are only 1 subpixel.  I am very skeptical that any reviewer could notice a difference in brightness given these gaps are below a perceptible size.

I think it's more likely that either 1) reviewers do not have the refresh rate synchronized to the PWM frequency which will cause motion issues, and/or 2) manufacturers such as Lenovo and HP use an add-on film touch layer which is visible over the panel.

Quote from: JRS on December 11, 2023, 00:46:40Are the reviewers noticing the same effect on other displays such as phones that typically have even less monolithic pixel structures? 

Smartphones have ppi much higher than 300, so it's impossible to notice anything there. For example, at 300 ppi I still see problems with fonts, compared with 440 ppi+.

Everyone's vision is individual, but since there are repeating pixel holes every 1 pixel on one side and every 4 pixels on the other, it is obvious that this will be noticeable and unpleasant for some, which is what the authors periodically note. Naturally, at 4k this will be less noticeable, but it is still noticeable if you look closely that the entire screen seems to be lined with barely visible dark lines on a white background.

In any case, IPS wins here. It also wins significantly in terms of color accuracy, because... according to local reviews, it is almost always impossible to calibrate AMOLED with dE less than 2. Specifically with this model everything is fine - dE<1.5.

But I can't imagine how to use this screen in practice with a terrifying PWM at a frequency of 60Hz...

If I fill the screen with blue, or draw 1px blue lines on a solid black background, I can begin to infer the offsets. During normal usage, it actually looks more homogeneous than those IPS panels that tilt their subpixels back and forth in alternating rows.

From a perfectionist's standpoint, I would also prefer that they weren't there. From a battle-picking perspective, there are other concerns that are more pressing to me, which we perhaps might all agree on.

Keep the market pressure on, folks.

Judging by the fact that all manufacturers, without exception, deliberately ignore the possibility of installing IPS 4k@120Hz in mass-produced laptops, we are not putting any pressure on the market. They just don't care, they conspired to install only 2.5k rubbish, which is not compatible at the pixel level with either 4k video or fhd video and is also incompatible with fhd games to increase fps when the video card is no longer enough, and this is almost always the case from the moment of sale in native 2.5k (there is nothing to say about 4k).

4k panels are universal, they solve almost all problems with cloudy fonts caused by Google in Chrome - there cloudy fonts are NOT disabled from version 50, but in FF the incorrect crooked cloudy anti-aliasing can be disabled with one setting, but even there the correct black-and-white anti-aliasing only worked up to 69 version, now you can only turn off anti-aliasing entirely, which is impossible in Chrome, where everyone who sits at screens with ppi below about 220-230 - 100% spoils their eyesight.

There are no obstacles (including price) to installing 4k@120Hz 16:10 panels in laptops from $900-1000; moreover, with their mass production, their cost will fall.

When running on battery power, there is no problem switching to fhd mode on a 4k panel without losing any sharpness at the pixel level - 4 4k pixels turn into 1 fhd, and the interpixel distance is still less than on a native fhd panel. But why do people sit with muddy fonts in chrome-like browsers from BP, if there is no problem in mass installing only 4K panels in 16-18" for several years now? Why are there no screens left on smartphones even in cheap models with ppi below 300, and this is such a shame in laptops?

I understand why 4k is not enough on monitors (you need 6k-8k), but in laptops long ago these bastards had to make massive 4k 16:10 screens with a ppi guaranteed above 230. Interfaces have long allowed this, even eDP1.4b (by the way, a shame Intel - in Meteor Lake again only the shameful eDP1.4b, but not 2.0+!).

Quite literally nothing is true nor accurate in that wall of text, pretty impressive. Especially not this part:

Quote from: NikoB on December 15, 2023, 14:33:06When running on battery power, there is no problem switching to fhd mode on a 4k panel without losing any sharpness at the pixel level - 4 4k pixels turn into 1 fhd, and the interpixel distance is still less than on a native fhd panel.

At 720p four pixels are binned into one pixels down to perfect integer number with 2560x1440 so try to use 1280x720 on a 1440p panel. You certainly won't manage to go "without losing any sharpness at the pixel level" and everything will look like s***.

I mean if you are lazy to change your screen resolution to 50% lower one, just literally take a screenshot of your screen, paste it in Paint, resize it to be 50% smaller, then save that screenshot and open it on your native resolution screen and make it fullscreen. It looks like crap. It's pretty clear that you don't have a 4K screen, lol. That is obvious from your point of looking at everything through 100% scaling; good luck using 100% scaling with 4K at 16", haha. Most people use 200% and that is effectively FHD, just much sharper.

Also just switching to a lower-resolution mode most definitely won't help with battery life because the 4K panel is still taking higher amount of power (than a FHD panel) regardless of what data is sent to it. The power savings will not come from the display when you lower the resolution; the saving come from the GPU because it doesn't have to render as many pixels. Switching to lower refresh rate will help though.

But then again that is not the case anymore since about Intel HD 520 (which was working flawlessly with 4K) so I understand why you think it is as that GMA 950 in your 2008 MSI laptop is clearly struggling even with its own 768p native resolution; perhaps it is time for an upgrade, NikoB?

-

Edit: I am still waiting for your link/proof of that Huawei laptop which was available in your mythical country at the start of the summer of 2023, solid 5 months before they (Huawei) released it in China or anywhere else. You call me a liar and then when asked for proofs you simply run away like a rat, never to be found in that thread again 😁

Quote from: Neenyah on December 14, 2023, 14:27:56

Quote from: NikoB on December 14, 2023, 14:11:52

Quote from: Neenyah on December 13, 2023, 23:27:33Must be nice to live in a country where Chinese OEMs sell their own products many months before they even release them in their own market (China).

I have already proven more than once that you are lying and I can easily prove it again.

Lmao, so do it then. I am lying, Notebookcheck is lying, hell even Huawei is lying and they were secretly selling this laptop in your super-important country FIVE MONTHS before they released the product in China. All links are lies, only your invisible links and sources are THE truth 😂

Quote from: NikoB on December 11, 2023, 19:26:10

Quote from: JRS on December 11, 2023, 00:46:40Are the reviewers noticing the same effect on other displays such as phones that typically have even less monolithic pixel structures? 

Smartphones have ppi much higher than 300, so it's impossible to notice anything there. For example, at 300 ppi I still see problems with fonts, compared with 440 ppi+.

Everyone's vision is individual, but since there are repeating pixel holes every 1 pixel on one side and every 4 pixels on the other, it is obvious that this will be noticeable and unpleasant for some, which is what the authors periodically note. Naturally, at 4k this will be less noticeable, but it is still noticeable if you look closely that the entire screen seems to be lined with barely visible dark lines on a white background.

In any case, IPS wins here. It also wins significantly in terms of color accuracy, because... according to local reviews, it is almost always impossible to calibrate AMOLED with dE less than 2. Specifically with this model everything is fine - dE<1.5.

But I can't imagine how to use this screen in practice with a terrifying PWM at a frequency of 60Hz...

Phone panels are not a good comparison because they are known to have PenTile or other layouts that do not have independent R,G, and B subpixels for each pixel.

The white background issues on this model are due to Lenovo's add-on film touch layer.  The layer is visible up close and looks like a pattern of repeating dots in a checkerboard pattern.  I see no such uniformity issues on OLED panels without Lenovo's AOFT layer.  I've noticed AOFT layers on OLED panels from some manufacturers (Lenovo, HP) but not others (Razer, Alienware, Gigabyte).

Color-fringing on text occurs on all displays regardless of subpixel layout.  ClearType and other subpixel rendering algorithms are just more effective at covering it up on RGB-stripe layouts because those are the only layouts they support.  Regardless of layout, the fix is always the same - manufacturers need to release higher DPI displays.

I can't notice any flicker on this display, even at 60 Hz.  By comparison, if I turn on 60 Hz black frame insertion on my OLED TV that is extremely noticeable.  I don't know what the pulse coefficient is for each cycle but it definitely does not appear that the pixels are fully cycling on/off.

Motion on this display appears very clear - that's a benefit of its PWM.

The battery life and power consumption data don't seem to match to me. The P1G4-20Y4S0KS00 also has a 4k screen with similar power consumption data except for the high load scenario. How come the P1G6-21FV001KUS can only last 4hrs of wifi-v3 while the P1G4 has 7hrs.

another gimmick for people who don't need a laptop or don't really understand what a laptop is
gl carrying that power brick for your "ultrathin laptop" around

Quote from: gmghm on February 17, 2024, 13:05:58another gimmick for people who don't need a laptop or don't really understand what a laptop is
gl carrying that power brick for your "ultrathin laptop" around

Gimmick, lol. That's the charger for Lenovo's docking station, they usually provide them for review units. Slim tip 230W is its normal charger and it is small and light (https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/p/accessories-and-software/chargers-and-batteries/chargers/4x20s56721). Any 90W+ USBC is also charging perfectly fine.

Quote from: Neenyah on February 17, 2024, 15:19:19Gimmick, lol. That's the charger for Lenovo's docking station, they usually provide them for review units. Slim tip 230W is its normal charger and it is small and light[/url].

HAHAHA @ 0.6kg
just a brilliant example of someone who doesn't know what LAP TOPs are for
now go on to usual stupid "you have to go to gym if you can't carry it" rant
and then those guys just never use their "laptop" outside
and no one knows why they've invested in laptop instead of desktop

Quote from: Neenyah on February 17, 2024, 15:19:19Any 90W+ USBC is also charging perfectly fine.

yeah, keep using underpowered power bricks if you want your battery dead faster
then replace it with a cheap chinese aftermarket cause your laptop is outdated in 2 years and lenovo isn't producing anything for it anymore

Quote from: gmghm on February 17, 2024, 16:25:34

Quote from: Neenyah on February 17, 2024, 15:19:19Gimmick, lol. That's the charger for Lenovo's docking station, they usually provide them for review units. Slim tip 230W is its normal charger and it is small and light[/url].

HAHAHA @ 0.6kg
just a brilliant example of someone who doesn't know what LAP TOPs are for
now go on to usual stupid "you have to go to gym if you can't carry it" rant
and then those guys just never use their "laptop" outside
and no one knows why they've invested in laptop instead of desktop

Yeah, 2.4 kg combined weight (1.8 + 0.6) is too extreme to carry around. It is much easier to carry 2.4 kg with other laptops, no matter how it's distributed, like the M3 MBP 16 with 2.1 kg + 0.35 kg charger. 2.4 kg there is clearly far lighter than 2.4 kg here.

You are not a target audience for ThinkPad(s) and have no idea how are they being used so why worry about them at all? And speaking of myself, I own a 1.1 kg "heavy" X1 Carbon and when I'm not at home I carry my light and tiny 65W Anker 735 (https://www.anker.com/products/a2667?variant=41581366575254) (about 145 grams or so).

Quote from: gmghm on February 17, 2024, 16:25:34

Quote from: Neenyah on February 17, 2024, 15:19:19Any 90W+ USBC is also charging perfectly fine.

yeah, keep using underpowered power bricks if you want your battery dead faster
then replace it with a cheap chinese aftermarket cause your laptop is outdated in 2 years and lenovo isn't producing anything for it anymore

Lol, so now charging at lower power is destroying battery, for the first time in the history. Nice.

Quote from: Neenyah on February 17, 2024, 16:56:49like the M3 MBP 16 with 2.1 kg + 0.35 kg charger

For that one you can leave charger at home or hotel. And this one is a 4hr battery life web browsing machine.

Why do you keep arguing with everyone, you've already lost like 6 messages ago.

When your ego is so insecure that you look at normal talk about a laptop as winning or losing. 13 y.o. detected.

Quote from: Neenyah on February 17, 2024, 16:56:49Lol, so now charging at lower power is destroying battery, for the first time in the history. Nice.

Working and charging with underpowered charger at the same is really bad for battery. As consumption goes over charger capacity notebook dips into battery in short charge-discharge cycles which is bad. Even worse if it is already charged to 100% and it immediately tries to fill that power spike back into battery when consumption normalises, thus creating a short charging spikes at around full battery.That's battery killer behaviour. Also underpowered chargers tend to emit much more heat.

Quote from: Neenyah on February 17, 2024, 20:11:12When your ego is so insecure that you look at normal talk about a laptop as winning or losing. 13 y.o. detected.

Hmm, speaking of "ego" and "13 y.o." behavior, if its not about winning or losing for you, why did you even reply with insults only.
I'm not interested in this kind of conversation.

Quote from: Ron1 on February 17, 2024, 20:13:50

Quote from: Neenyah on February 17, 2024, 16:56:49Lol, so now charging at lower power is destroying battery, for the first time in the history. Nice.

Working and charging with underpowered charger at the same is really bad for battery.

That is correct. But then you just grab a stronger charger if you know you will need it. Many ThinkPad users simply use their heavy brick (like the one from this review here) in their office to power their dock and another one smaller and lighter in their bag and/or at their home. As long as you have 195W+ you will have enough power to not run into described situation and there are USBC chargers of up to 240W (P1's slim tip is 230W).

Quote from: Ron1 on February 17, 2024, 20:13:50As consumption goes over charger capacity notebook dips into battery in short charge-discharge cycles which is bad. Even worse if it is already charged to 100% and it immediately tries to fill that power spike back into battery when consumption normalises, thus creating a short charging spikes at around full battery.That's battery killer behaviour.

That is also true in many cases but not really here or with any ThinkPad in general; first - they won't charge at all if they were full and dropped to 99, 98, 97 or 96%. You can use a laptop at 100%, unplug it, let it drop to 96% and plug the charger back in and it won't charge back to 100% until you drop below 95%.

My X1 Carbon is "plugged in, not charging" at 99% (https://imgur.com/oQsMFRK) since Wednesday, for example. It is how Lenovo protects battery's health, plus there is a lot more little tweaks and things they do to protect batteries from lack of users' knowledge about batteries in general. At least with ThinkPads, I can't say for other laptops but no ThinkPad is exception here.

Another thing they offer directly in Vantage is battery thresholds. I believe the image is pretty self-explanatory (https://imgur.com/s0SIJ1P) but I'll still describe it in few words if you don't mind; you activate thresholds if you want, you don't have to use them if you don't want. You can set any percentage you wish of when to start charging and to how much to charge your battery. In my example I can be on any charger in the world and it won't start charging as long as I'm above 40%, it will also stop charging immediately as it reaches 60% so it won't use battery at all during that process (if I'm at 65W or stronger charger) but it won't charge it completely either. Of course you can set anything, like to start charging at 80% and stop at 90% if you want, it's bizarre but hey it's an option. When I need full juice I simply disable thresholds, let it charge to full and then activate it again.

Quote from: Ron1 on February 17, 2024, 20:13:50Also underpowered chargers tend to emit much more heat.

Hm, not necessarily because an OEM who knows their job won't allow that, they will simply say something like "Weak charging state, please check power charger" if it detects that it's, well, too weak, or it will simply refuse to charge at all because it is too weak. The P1 Gen 6 is certainly not charging any hotter with 90W charger than it does with 230W and if the charger itself is heating up then that's another issue outside of laptop OEM scope of work.

But they - again, at least Lenovo with ThinkPads, and again I can't comment about non-ThinkPads in those regards - do everything they can to prevent any possible damage from charging even if you try to charge with the weirdest s*** in existence like those custom-made frankenstein chargers that people make at home and are basically little bombs - the laptop simply won't charge at all if it detects anything harmful for itself or for its battery. Again #2 - no ThinkPad is exception in that regard.

Quote from: Neenyah on February 17, 2024, 21:35:29Many ThinkPad users simply use their heavy brick (like the one from this review here) in their office to power their dock and another one smaller and lighter in their bag and/or at their home

proof or gtfo
curious to see statistics numbers behind your claim

I'd love to see how the reviewer got 4 hours of battery life, my unit (i7 13700H, 4060 and the 165 Hz screen) cannot even achieve an hour with 80 % charge.

Hey, I'm very interested in this last part "We also have to mention the frame rate stutters when video streaming"

Because I'm experiencing it myself using a lower end config with the OLED panel and the RTX 2000 Ada with a 13700H, did you find out what was happening?