AMD talks down Intel Panther Lake, claims Core Ultra X9 388H vs Ryzen AI Max+ Strix Halo is not a fair fight

[Redaktion]

Intel's upcoming Panther Lake APUs are shaping up to be quite impressive, at least in terms of energy efficiency and graphics performance. However, AMD is reportedly not that worried about the Core Ultra X9 388H Panther Lake flagship and its 12-core Arc B390 iGPU.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-talks-down-Intel-Panther-Lake-claims-Core-Ultra-X9-388H-vs-Ryzen-AI-Max-Strix-Halo-is-not-a-fair-fight.1199839.0.html

[unfair comparison indeed]

as the Radeon 8060S iGPU of AMD Strix Halo APUs falls between the RTX 4060 laptop and the RTX 4070 laptop GPUs.

Not according to 3dmark.com/search:

• 8060S: "Average score: 10013"
• 4060 (notebook): "Average score: 10511"
• 4070 (notebook): "Average score: 12537"

However, Intel has not, to our knowledge, claimed RTX 4060 or RTX 4070 laptop-level performance for the Arc B390 iGPU. Instead, the company has only claimed performance similar to the RTX 4050 laptop GPU.

Exactly. Strix Point is a 256-bit (quad-channel / 4*64-bit per channel), 256 GB/s, APU, while Panther Lake is a 128-bit¹ (dual-channel / 2*64-bit per channel) APU, so it's unsurprising.
Panther Lake: 153.6 GB/s = 128-bit * 9600 MT/s / 1000 / 8.
Strix Halo: 256 GB/s = 256-bit * 8000 MT/s / 1000 / 8.

So, Strix Halo has a 66% higher memory bandwidth.

But if Intel prioritizes the iGPU performance (which I hope they do, because I'm a gamer), it may come closer in gaming performance to Strix Halo, than what Strix Halo' 66% advantage would suggest.

¹

Intel® Iris® Xe Graphics only: to use the Intel® Iris® Xe brand, the system must be populated with 128-bit (dual channel) memory. Otherwise, use the Intel® UHD brand.

We must remind you here that Strix Halo APUs aren't exactly cheap either. For instance, the Asus ROG Flow Z13 with the Ryzen AI Max+ 395, which AMD recently used as a comparison device against the Apple MacBook Pro 14, has a list price of $2,299.99 on Amazon.

Strix Halo being 256-bit wide makes it unsurprisingly bigger and thus more expensive.

We'll have to wait and see for ourselves how well the Core Ultra X9 388H stacks up against the Ryzen AI Max+ APUs, and if AMD's current strategy is a good one.

Independent benchmarks at 28 January. Make sure to test the energy efficiency.

[N1X indefinitely delayed]

I think they're calling it unfair due to power consumption difference.

Strix Halo in NUCs uses around ~180w when running heavy games (e.g. cyberpunk). Even in laptop form factor it still uses around ~100w. In contrast, the max these panther lake chips use is 65w.

The Arc B390 is not gonna be anywhere near as fast as a 8060s. It's not even going to be equal to an 8050s either but it doesn't need to be. If it can get close enough to it (and make up the remaining differences with it's superior upscaling) while being significantly more efficient, that's a win imo.

I think the B390 is going to be midway performance wise between 140V/890m and 8050s or about 50% faster than 140V/890m in pure raster when you limit to like the same low tdp (e.g. 20w). I know the 8050s is a lot faster when running at high tdp (e.g. 80 watts) but it'll be interesting to see how the power scales once you limit an 8050s to 20w. Or how close the B390 can get to it.

Actually, nvm - we already know, heh. :)

At 20w, the 8050s performs the same as a 890m/140V. So basically if you care about battery life while gaming,  panther lake is gonna be 50% faster at same low power.

I actually really wanna know how the Adreno X2-90 in Snapdragon X2 Elite performs in comparison now. Even though, they were the most behind last gen, they seemed to have made the biggest gains. According to Qcomm, 2.3x improvement compared to their previous gen, X1 Elite or 50% faster than lunar lake. If true, that would make it almost as fast as panther lake..

[ggrt]

all about using less watts, lunarlake was the best, by far amd had nothing similar to offer and now even 50% faster with panther with same wattage?? what the heck is amd talking about here, they have nothing to offer in comparison!

[rip N1X i guess then]

Actually, nvm - we already know, heh. :)

At 20w, the 8050s performs the same as a 890m/140V.

For anyone else:

• notebookcheck.net/Intel-Arc-Graphics-140T-analysis-Arrow-Lake-H-iGPU-gains-frame-generation-support.960242.0.html
• notebookcheck.net/Intel-Lunar-Lake-iGPU-analysis-Arc-Graphics-140V-is-faster-and-more-efficient-than-Radeon-890M.894167.0.html
• notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-AI-Max-395-Analysis-Strix-Halo-to-rival-Apple-M4-Pro-Max-with-16-Zen-5-cores-and-iGPU-on-par-with-RTX-4070-Laptop.963274.0.html

This would make sense as both are RDNA3.5 on the same node.

Can you point me to the 20W test of the 8050S?

According to Qcomm, 2.3x improvement compared to their previous gen, X1 Elite or 50% faster than lunar lake. If true, that would make it almost as fast as panther lake..

Good and important that QUALCOMM X2 Elite iGPU has similar energy efficiency as Panther Lake

all about using less watts, lunarlake was the best, by far amd had nothing similar to offer and now even 50% faster with panther with same wattage?? what the heck is amd talking about here, they have nothing to offer in comparison!

We'll have so see for the independent tests, but it doesn't look good indeed.

[Citizen_not_Consumer]

Of course you should never believe what marketing is serving you no matter if it comes from AMD, INTEL, or anyone else but it seems that the Panther H series is closer to Strix point than to Strix Halo (for CPU, for GPU maybe it is closer to Halo). Both from initial benchmarks and the core types (4 perf, 8 eco, 4 saver) against 16 full fat hyperthreaded cores on Halo.

I think Intel Will come later with a Panther or Nova HX series that will beat the current Strix Halo.

Also I am not sure how much the 1.8nm node is used in Panther various chiplets or it is more of a marketing stand and most of the chipelts are made by TSCM. According to MLID on youtube, is very problematic and only very few Panther lake low end CPUs are using it. That is why no other company (Apple, Qualcomm, etc) don't even want to come close to it and they que up at TSCM. 

[N1X indefinitely delayed]

Can you point me to the 20W test of the 8050S?

Hubwood's YouTube Channel:

youtube.com/watch?v=xUspf5N7ryQ

Look at 17w results.

This is the 8060s but you can see here:

youtube.com/watch?v=vpz4mmKNvFU

That the difference between 8050S and 8060S isn't that big at 17w. Like 3 FPS difference, so you can expect pretty much same / similar on 8050s too.

[Life is not fair, is it..]

Future is coming....

[Worgarthe]

Future is coming....

Water is wet.

[Lederpboss]

He is aware, at least in the handheld space, no one is going to compare panther lake to strix halo, right? He is right though, it's not a fair comparison, strix halo is far more expensive and not competitive at all if the alleged intel performance is true. The Z2E will get absolutely smoked in that scenario.

[srhardy]

desktop ai/llm sure the 8060S is the pick and also a power and hear monster but turn down the juice for a laptop (they have also introducing battery's with more capacity's too that allow for thinner and lighter) and the INTEL PantherLake is going to be king! X-ELITE2 is the curve ball and its not obvious at all Intel have this all to themselves.

[unfair comparison indeed]

N1X indefinitely delayed:

At 20w, the 8050s performs the same as a 890m/140V.

Hubwood's YouTube Channel:

Thanks, but I don't see the 890m there? Unless you imply from the numbers there, and that the important settings are the same-ish, which would be good enough, I guess.
Intel Panther Lake with Arc B390 takes on AMD Ryzen Strix Halo and GeForce RTX 4050 in our first gaming benchmarks
notebookcheck.net/Intel-Panther-Lake-with-Arc-B390-takes-on-AMD-Ryzen-Strix-Halo-and-GeForce-RTX-4050-in-our-first-gaming-benchmarks.1200743.0.html

desktop ai/llm sure the 8060S is the pick

Yes, Strix Halo wins, but it's also an unfair comparison:
Panther Lake (up to 96 or 128 GB RAM?): 153.6 GB/s = 128-bit * 9600 MT/s / 1000 / 8.
Strix Halo (up to 128 GB RAM): 256 GB/s = 256-bit * 8000 MT/s / 1000 / 8.

(both top comments) Someone asked the real question:

Why can't they have a low core count CPU but still keep the full iGPU?

Answer by another:

Upselling

[DantePierttyr]

What you didn't notice is that the 388H'PL2 is 85 W, with the same TDP, Strix Halo will run over that, especially now that AMD has an 8-core model that keeps the full iGPU.