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3 unfortunate similarities between Apple and the electric car industry

Started by Redaktion, November 17, 2023, 19:17:40

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RobertJasiek

Face it - other endusers can have computer experiences outside your expectation. Your too restrictive expectation
does not alter the experience I did make, nor alter any experience anybody else made.

A

Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 19, 2023, 11:53:50Face it - other endusers can have computer experiences outside your expectation.
There's nothing to face, you are simply making all this up either intentionally or unintentionally. Come on, you were even doing it on auto-brightness. You can't make device last the same time on battery with different daily routine. Otherwise we'd all test devices using RobertJasiek "do-whatever-you-want" routine and didn't invent all those ~100% repeatable battery life tests.

You simply have a solution (Apple conspiracy) and are trying to adjust problem to it. There are a million other explanations. You need a standardized test routine and, if possible, real wattage consumption values from socket.

I'm going to stop this discussion because it's going nowhere.

RobertJasiek

Quote from: A on November 19, 2023, 14:23:34you are simply making all this up

Apple apologist: when running out of arguments, attack the Apple critic by personal insult or questioning credibility. Do they ever realise that such discussion behaviour itself hurts Apple's reputation?

Apple's reputation: several years before buying the iPad, Apple's reputation was as bad among Apple abstainers as then I have found justified by my experience with the iPad.

(In case somebody forgot why I bought an iPad nevertheless: the alternatives without the combination 4:3, limited reflectance, less than extremely bad updates supply, and not too bad battery duration would have created an even worse experience.)

Quoteyou were even doing it on auto-brightness.

On no device I ever use auto-brightness (possibly after the first few seconds before deactivating it) because manufacturers never predict my preferred brightness. Auto-brightness tends to be too bright and frequently annoys by unwanted changes.

QuoteYou can't make device last the same time on battery with different daily routine.

The funny thing is: the Apple apologist doubts even a good aspect of a device - that battery duration can be very consistent.

This aspect also surprised me. I had considered such as a principle possibility but was surprised to actually experience it.

A

Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 19, 2023, 15:07:51Apple apologist: when running out of arguments, attack the Apple critic by personal insult or questioning credibility. Do they ever realise that such discussion behaviour itself hurts Apple's reputation?
There is nothing to run out of arguments on. Initially you've claimed your day-to-day usage gave exactly the same battery life. Then you yourself realized it's kinda too much sus and gave it ~20 min threshold. It's just bs for the reasons stated above.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 19, 2023, 15:07:51On no device I ever use auto-brightness
Yeah, it's the third or fourth time you adjust your "day-to-day usage". If it was the case you'd mention it first thing, because display is 30-50% of battery consumption. Then you will tell you turn it off instead sleeping (because iPads do some work while sleeping and can use battery). Then you will tell you are always at the same exactly distance to your wifi hotspot etc etc.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 19, 2023, 15:07:51The funny thing is: the Apple apologist doubts even a good aspect of a device - that battery duration can be very consistent.
Maybe it's because 'apple apologists' exist only in your head. I call bs when I see bs.

RobertJasiek

Quote from: A on November 22, 2023, 09:39:45Initially you've claimed your day-to-day usage gave exactly the same battery life. Then you yourself realized it's kinda too much sus and gave it ~20 min threshold.[...]

No.

Rather, initially I simplified discussion without going into details. Only when pushed to provide details, I also gave information on variance.

Providing details has not changed the essence of the report (not: "a claim") on my made experience, but has changed the degree of details of the report.

Instead of acknowledging my sharing of my memorised data in yet greater detail, you repeat questioning my, a discussant's, credibility so further degrade Apple's reputation that Apple brings too many defenders of its products to disrespect other discussants as people.


A

Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 10:27:50Rather, initially I simplified discussion without going into details. Only when pushed to provide details, I also gave information on variance.
Auto-brightness was mentioned like in my first message and you've only changed your story just now with unrealistic "i turn it off". Yeah right imagine using iPad on constant brightness in the dark and lit room. You simply adapt your story to meet questions asked and the desired outcome - Apple conspiring against you. The more questions I will ask the more adaptations you will make. If I will ask if you measured power consumption on the wall socket you will immediately tell "yes i did it now consumes more". If I will ask if you measured battery charging capacity you will immediately respond "yes i did battery capacity is the same".

Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 10:27:50Apple brings too many defenders of its products to disrespect other discussants as people
Apple has nothing to do with it. I call bs when I see bs.

RobertJasiek

"[...] You simply adapt your story to meet questions asked [...]"

Again, you question credibility of a discussant.

A

Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 11:27:26Again, you question credibility of a discussant.
Stop playing the victim card lol, it's not going to work in tech discussion. You made a claim that Apple is conspiring against you and they lowered your battery life by two hours.

Meanwhile you got:
a) zero evidence of increased socket power consumption in idle and load
b) zero evidence of battery capacity change
c) zero evidence of using any standardized test routine
d) subjective opinion based on _inconsistent_ day to day usage
That sums it up I think, unless you want to change your story again lol.

Let me remind you two principles of being credible in discussion:
1) Burden of proof is on a person making claim, not on person doubting it. I don't have to prove you anything. And you only have your ever-changing story and appeals to victim card as 'proof'.
2) All doubts are interpreted in favor of defendant aka Apple.

You scored 0 out of 2 credibility points my man. So yeah, I still call bs.
At the moment you have no evidence to change my mind so I don't see the reason to continue this conversation.

RobertJasiek

Quote from: A on November 22, 2023, 11:47:52Apple [...] lowered your battery life by two hours.

1 hour and 50 minutes.

QuoteMeanwhile you got:
a) zero evidence[...]

Your demands in this thread for evidence from me go far beyond everything any enduser or tech tester delivers in reports, reviews or tests. E.g., you have demanded to rely statistics on standardised full-time tests for the ca. three months before the drop in battery duration and the ca. two years afterwards. So instead of practically using the tablet and making my personal experience with it, you suggest to have used it for nothing but standardised full-time tests, best permanently filmed including evidence by, say, newspapers put besides the iPad to prove outside time. Such could provide the perfect evidence in court but, instead of collecting court-level evidence, I have simply used the tablet as an enduser with the extra of having regularly watched battery durations.

Quotechange your story again

As before, report instead of story. Increased details instead of change.

Quotetwo principles of being credible in discussion:
1) Burden of proof is on a person making claim, not on person doubting it. I don't have to prove you anything.
[...]
2) All doubts are interpreted in favor of defendant aka Apple.

It is nice to see your progress! Now, you do not any longer attack my person but you discuss method. Well, almost.

QuoteAnd you only have your ever-changing story and appeals to victim card as 'proof'.

This part does not fit an aim of proper discussion.

QuoteI don't see the reason to continue this conversation.

For the second time.


A

Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 12:49:26As before, report instead of story. Increased details instead of change.
Reports contain facts, your story contains only ever-changing subjective opinion based on unreliable inconsistent data. And you've tried to cover up lack of facts by making up details and pretending you are a victim of 'apple apologists'.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 12:49:26For the second time.
No, it's still that first time, you just can't stop. I call your story bs, I understand you kinda feel bad but well, be prepared to your tin foil hat conspiracy theories being debunked before posting them next time.

RobertJasiek

Quote from: A on November 22, 2023, 13:16:06Reports contain facts, your story contains only ever-changing subjective opinion based on unreliable inconsistent data.

The facts of my report include
- the event of the particular iOS update,
- the on average and close to 11:50 battery durations before the update,
- the on average and close to 10:00 battery durations after the update.

The variable aspects of my report include
- my very similar usage during the period of observation.

My subjective opinion includes
- the opinion that my very similar usage during the period of observation is good enough practical evidence that the particular iOS update was the only significant circumstance related to the drastic and sudden drop of battery life from the close to constant higher level to the close to constant lower level.

A

Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 14:18:23- the on average and close to 11:50 battery durations before the update,
- the on average and close to 10:00 battery durations after the update.
It's impossible, you weren't using device in the same way every time. So it's not facts, it's just your words vs. common sense. Plus yeah, your story changed again, now it's "on average", ok lol.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 14:18:23The variable aspects of my report include
- my very similar usage during the period of observation.
It is not very similar. Screen brightness was different every time, usage patterns were different, usage scenarios time was never measured (e.g. scrolling the webpage takes more power than idling at webpage, videos on webpage take additional battery power etc etc etc etc etc.) Plus you've never measured your actual battery capacity and have no idea if it's just battery wear.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 14:18:23My subjective opinion includes
All this bs is just your made up subjective tin foil hat theory that Apple conspires against your iPad while ignoring common sense and reasonable critique that there are million other reasons for _seemingly_ lower battery life.

RobertJasiek

Sry, I did not say I were using the iPad in the SAME way - I said "very similar" and described it.

The average and most frequent value is 11:50 before / 10:00 after the update. Too hard to understand for you?

For the winter period, when the update occurred, brightness could be similar because a) I almost always used the device at the same place with the same environmental light conditions, b) for similar periods of day / night conditions and c) I always adjust the brightness as closely as possible to a pleasant level, which I can do consistently because my lighting perception is consistent.

For the summer half of a year, I also was outdoors. If so exclusively, I consistently got ca. 5 hours after the update. If mixed indoors / outdoors, then in between these 5 and the 10 hours of pure indoor use. During the following two winters with again pure indoor use, it again was the 10 hours. Sorry for not having mentioned summer experience before.

I know that it was not battery wear because that started noticably only later after 3 or 3 1/2 years when it fell slowly and continuously from the 10h indoors or 5h outdoors to first slightly, then somewhat lower values.

Why do you ride so much on battery capacity and external wattage measurements? What matters for the enduser is his actually experienced battery duration.

Millions of other reasons, LOL. Why not trillions. One of that many different bugs iOS might have got to affect battery life from the day of the iOS update on. It is not that I was "holding it wrong" from exactly that day on, or maybe Steve Jobs would disagree;)

A

Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 16:27:23For the winter period, when the update occurred, brightness could be similar because
'Could be' haha. Could-would facts.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 16:27:23Why do you ride so much on battery capacity and external wattage measurements? What matters for the enduser is his actually experienced battery duration.
Because your 'end user' battery life is remaining battery capacity _in Wh_ / your avg consumption in W.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 16:27:23c) I always adjust the brightness as closely as possible to a pleasant level
There you go. Top-notch battery life measurements with unknown periods of different brightness levels. Smh..

Come on, man, just stop it. Not even funny anymore.

RobertJasiek

Just a note before ending this topic: I cannot tell you the brightness levels because the GUI of i(Pad)OS does not denote them by numbers.

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