Tesla asks EPA to end gas vehicle sales by 2030 as cheaper electric cars with longer range speed up EV transition

[Nameless]

the car I mentioned which is cheapest in US has 578km range which is less than 700km.

I referred to EVs in Asia, where according to you, "there are plenty of cheap EVs under 10k" which have a laughable 100km range and they take many hours to charge.

And technology continues to improve by the year, so not sure where you are getting

My complaint is about the flaws and disadvantages of EVs TODAY, not a decade into the future. Obviously, technology will improve, but it will likely happen in small increments over many years, as was the case in the past.

Isn't that what I said? But you gave a fit about doing that

Nope. You made the unconvincing argument that 'if you have a phone in your house, you should not care about cameras in the cockpit', in response to my dissatisfaction with cameras built-in in the EV's cockpit.

And government can force you to be on video 24/7, your point?

You get what you tolerate, shill.

What's stopping from any car manufacturer from stopping your car? They all have cellular radios in them.

Nothing, but if you put privacy blockers on the cameras in the cockpit, you give car manufacturers one more reason to stop your car remotely, which is why I'd rather not have cameras in the cockpit in the first place.

Why in the world would they do something like that which would harm their sales?

You already answered your own question- because the car manufacturers might be convinced that "those truly caring about privacy are a minority" (which I disagree with BTW), and make a decision based on the assessment that the benefits for the car manufacturers would outweigh the drawbacks (namely the small impact on profitability that such a minority would cause).

Unless government forces it, and at that point all cars would have it anyways.

Can you guess which ICE car won't have it? My current, trusty ICE car. And the second-hand market, too, for years to come.

Okay, and?

I wrote it in my previous comments but I'll remind you again since you didn't figure that out by yourself- It will take Europe years to build the manufacturing plants to produce enough batteries to become self-reliant. Thus China will continue to dominate the EV battery market globally (maybe except for the US), which means the CCP will laugh all the way to the bank.

The rules do not mandate EVs though unlike the article claims, they simply set emissions standards for fleet average.

Source: "trust me lad"

Do understand one thing, Tesla has nothing to gain financially if EPA makes the rules stricter.

Here's where you're wrong- people need to drive cars, that's why they own cars even when using public transportation makes more financial sense. If ICE cars are no longer an option in the market, many people will buy whatever they can. Tesla, as the market leader in EVs, is best positioned to benefit from that, which is why they're lobbying the EPA to ban ICE cars.

The more other brands invest in EVs, the more competition Tesla has. The more they ignore it, the more edge Tesla has over their competitors.

Given that many markets, such as the EU, will ban ICE cars in the next decade, other brands are already investing heavily in EV tech.

That said, if you want to talk about anti-competitiveness, why is it that gas cars are allowed to harm our health and pollute our air? If I were to throw toxic gas at you, I'd get arrested, if I did it from my car exhaust, then its okay. Isn't that special treatment? How about all gas cars reroute their exhaust to their interior? Let the driver pay the cost instead of sharing it with others

Whataboutism

[A]

I referred to EVs in Asia, where according to you, "there are plenty of cheap EVs under 10k" which have a laughable 100km range and they take many hours to charge.

You are the one who used asia as and example so I pointed out they do have cheaper EV options.

That said, you are still wrong. For example Leap Motors T03 it costs 65,800 RMB (about 9k) and has 403 km, Ora R2 Baimao LR for 75,800 RMB

Full list can be found by searching for:

china-ev-price-list-rank-chinese-electric-cars-by-range-and-price

My complaint is about the flaws and disadvantages of EVs TODAY, not a decade into the future. Obviously, technology will improve, but it will likely happen in small increments over many years, as was the case in the past.

But the discussion is about a decade into the future...

Nope. You made the unconvincing argument that 'if you have a phone in your house, you should not care about cameras in the cockpit', in response to my dissatisfaction with cameras built-in in the EV's cockpit.

No, my argument was you can just block the camera. Then I went to talk about how so many devices already have cameras and mics.

You get what you tolerate, shill.

Can we not result to personal insults? Sure you get what you tolerate, but lets stop pretending that his is somehow different than what we already have.

Nothing, but if you put privacy blockers on the cameras in the cockpit, you give car manufacturers one more reason to stop your car remotely, which is why I'd rather not have cameras in the cockpit in the first place.

Then they'll stop your car for not having cameras in your cockpit.

I mean seriously, you think automakers want to put cameras in the cockpit? They wouldn't be doing it if government wasn't requiring it. Take that to your politician

You already answered your own question- because the car manufacturers might be convinced that "those truly caring about privacy are a minority" (which I disagree with BTW), and make a decision based on the assessment that the benefits for the car manufacturers would outweigh the drawbacks (namely the small impact on profitability that such a minority would cause).

Sure, but you make it sound like they actually care what you do on your private time. All they care about is giving consumers the features they want that drive sales.

Can you guess which ICE car won't have it? My current, trusty ICE car. And the second-hand market, too, for years to come.

If government is going to require such, they simply won't renew your car registration until you install one.

I wrote it in my previous comments but I'll remind you again since you didn't figure that out by yourself- It will take Europe years to build the manufacturing plants to produce enough batteries to become self-reliant. Thus China will continue to dominate the EV battery market globally (maybe except for the US), which means the CCP will laugh all the way to the bank.

Note that most of China's dominance of the EV battery market is inside their own country. They aren't the only major producer of batteries, especially when you take out outside of China, there is Japan and South Korea and America too. Of course China will benefit from it too in the short term, but so what?

Source: "trust me lad"

You don't know how emissions standards work do you?

Here's where you're wrong- people need to drive cars, that's why they own cars even when using public transportation makes more financial sense. If ICE cars are no longer an option in the market, many people will buy whatever they can. Tesla, as the market leader in EVs, is best positioned to benefit from that, which is why they're lobbying the EPA to ban ICE cars.

That isn't how fleet average works, its based on emissions per mile per fleet average of a manufacturer

And Tesla isn't even asking them to ban ICE cars, they are simply trying to prevent manufacturers from weakening the planned standards by pointing out it is not only possible but can be made even stricter and still be feasible

Given that many markets, such as the EU, will ban ICE cars in the next decade, other brands are already investing heavily in EV tech.

Relatively, none are planning a ban in 2030 right? And for US automakers, the US is pretty much the biggest market

Whataboutism

Ah, so you think only ICE cars can be allowed to be anti-competitive, got it

[Nameless]

Leap Motors T03 it costs 65,800 RMB (about 9k) and has 403 km, Ora R2 Baimao LR for 75,800 RMB

What a massive self-own on your part. The manufacturer states it's "up to" 403km (overly optimistic best case scenario, normally can only be achieved in a lab), which is still laughable compared to even the cheapest ICE cars. And you conveniently ignored the slow-charging issue compared with ICE cars' 2-minute fueling.

But the discussion is about a decade into the future...

Nope, the article is about a decade into the future. However my original comment which started this debate is about my complaints with EVs today.

No, my argument was you can just block the camera. Then I went to talk about how so many devices already have cameras and mics.

Lying through your teeth, even though the evidence is in plain sight for all to see. "Your laptop and cellphone has a surveillance camera and they are in far more private locations than your car"= 'if you have a phone in your house, you should not care about cameras in the cockpit'

Sure, but you make it sound like they actually care what you do on your private time.

Delusional. Data is the new gold.

Can we not result to personal insults?

Talk like a shill, get treated like a shill, shill. "And government can force you to be on video 24/7"- shame on you. Despite the anonymity that this comment section provides, you should be disgusted with yourself for shilling for intolerable subjugation and attempting to normalize it as if it was part and parcel of life. I hope you get what you so desperately shill for.

lets stop pretending that his is somehow different than what we already have.

Pathetic shill.

If government is going to require such, they simply won't renew your car registration until you install one.

Shill.

To all whom it may concern, let this be a lesson not to waste time on shills.

[A]

What a massive self-own on your part. The manufacturer states it's "up to" 403km (overly optimistic best case scenario, normally can only be achieved in a lab), which is still laughable compared to even the cheapest ICE cars. And you conveniently ignored the slow-charging issue compared with ICE cars' 2-minute fueling.

It's based on same test as ICE cars take.

You continue to ignore that in-home fillups for ICE cars aren't practical like EVs.

Nope, the article is about a decade into the future. However my original comment which started this debate is about my complaints with EVs today.

No, the debate is about the future. You've just been trying to change the debate to one of current cause otherwise your point would be moot.

Lying through your teeth, even though the evidence is in plain sight for all to see. "Your laptop and cellphone has a surveillance camera and they are in far more private locations than your car"= 'if you have a phone in your house, you should not care about cameras in the cockpit'

The one lying here is you.

"Your laptop and cellphone has a surveillance camera and they are in far more private locations than your car. If they annoy you use the same things people do with laptops and cellphones, get privacy blockers"

The fact that you intentionally removed that line shows your intentions.

Delusional. Data is the new gold.

All they care about is seeing what features you actually use for sales, they don't need a camera for that.

Talk like a shill, get treated like a shill, shill. "And government can force you to be on video 24/7"- shame on you. Despite the anonymity that this comment section provides, you should be disgusted with yourself for shilling for intolerable subjugation and attempting to normalize it as if it was part and parcel of life. I hope you get what you so desperately shill for.

Pathetic shill.

Shill.

To all whom it may concern, let this be a lesson not to waste time on shills.

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