NotebookCHECK - Notebook Forum

Great convertible with great screen, but those memory timings 22 are very slow, probably it translates in min 10% loss of fps in games

When writing about the Freesync, could you show it's range? It is shown when putting mouse over the Freesync tab. Knowing the range is quite important, as the range has to be similar to the capability of the iGPU.

Quote from: neblogai on June 30, 2020, 13:08:29
When writing about the Freesync, could you show it's range? It is shown when putting mouse over the Freesync tab. Knowing the range is quite important, as the range has to be similar to the capability of the iGPU.

The range is 40-60 (at least in one Youtube review they showed the Radeon screen). Looking at games this could be very useful in some games, where this laptop is averaging 45 fps. For example GTAV you could potentially run with 1080p and medium settings, at least with 4700u SKU

Your runtime seems really long according to my experience with the 4700U unit (300 nits and realtek WiFi card).

Dunno if it's due to me using Firefox and keeping Discord on but various web usage would get me to 7h while web video will not go further than 9h

Thanks for the thorough review! (Maybe some tests with the other HP profiles, pretty please? ;) )

I think you still let off HP too easy for their habit of making stupid layout choices with otherwise perfectly servicable keyboards (Elitebook 820 G5 with your Skype buttons, I'm looking at you!) :)

The reason: The bigger consequence for the missing right CTRL key manifests in international layouts (at least QWERTZ/AZERTY). Those standards have one additional key compared to QWERTY and had the right CTRL repurposed for that use case (for <>|) on the Envys.

Even by itself a suboptimal choice, but from what I've read (IIRC in an amazon review, wasn't able to find a picture yet) they are now FN-mapped to the L key...seriously, HP, all that for the fingerprint reader!?

Thanks for the excellent review!

Couple of questions that I may have missed the answer to in the article:

1) How is the battery life when gaming?  I see the load test shows 116 minutes, but is that a purely CPU load, or CPU + GPU?  (Power draw numbers weren't listed for Witcher 3, so I believe that load test may just be CPU load).  I'm hoping the machine can get 90-120 minutes while running a modern game at moderate brightness.

2) Does the machine throttle under CPU + graphics load, like playing games, when it's fully folded over into tablet mode with the back of the screen up against the back of the base? 

I have a use case where I'd like to use one of these in tablet mode propped up on a treadmill to play games.  The exhaust would be facing up, so that should be fine, but I am concerned the screen being folded over might not allow the intake to get enough air and the machine could throttle.  Would really love to get confirmation that the machine doesn't throttle in that configuration while running games for a period of time!

The 1000 nits brightness is a marketing move. It is used only for the privacy filter, so that only the user is able to see what is on the screen. But the screen does not actually get that bright.

What about the sound?
It has a Bang Olufsen sound system but how good it is?the DAC is superior? Does it allow optical output?
The speakers are good or you better use earphones?

The 15.6 model with same specs as the reviewed one is selling for 600$ on Walmart and 660$ on Amazon.
For this price is best bang for the buck!

Quote from: IonBlade on June 30, 2020, 15:56:53
1) How is the battery life when gaming?  I see the load test shows 116 minutes, but is that a purely CPU load, or CPU + GPU?  (Power draw numbers weren't listed for Witcher 3, so I believe that load test may just be CPU load).  I'm hoping the machine can get 90-120 minutes while running a modern game at moderate brightness.

Do realize that the power draw numbers are at the wall. Meaning while plugged-in. At least I believe so. Once you unplug a laptop, things can significantly change. When laptops have a relative long run time under load, it tends to be because they significantly restrict performance. With a 51 Wh battery, your average draw is going to be about 25 W, not 40 W. There is no way you can draw an average of 40 W for almost two hours from a 51 Wh battery. Which is, obviously, going to impact frame rates. Something to bear in mind.

Can this be bought in Europe ?

Quote from: _MT_ on June 30, 2020, 16:46:49

Quote from: IonBlade on June 30, 2020, 15:56:53
1) How is the battery life when gaming?  I see the load test shows 116 minutes, but is that a purely CPU load, or CPU + GPU?  (Power draw numbers weren't listed for Witcher 3, so I believe that load test may just be CPU load).  I'm hoping the machine can get 90-120 minutes while running a modern game at moderate brightness.

Do realize that the power draw numbers are at the wall. Meaning while plugged-in. At least I believe so. Once you unplug a laptop, things can significantly change. When laptops have a relative long run time under load, it tends to be because they significantly restrict performance. With a 51 Wh battery, your average draw is going to be about 25 W, not 40 W. There is no way you can draw an average of 40 W for almost two hours from a 51 Wh battery. Which is, obviously, going to impact frame rates. Something to bear in mind.

That makes a lot of sense; I hadn't considered that.

I wouldn't even mind it lasting just an hour as long as I could set the various control panels to a "max performance / minimum battery" setting to get the same performance as the 4500U benchmark videos I've seen on Youtube for dozens of games, but I'm not even sure that the various power options give that level of control to make battery performance equal to wall performance.

In short, I haven't seen anything that says "This is the kind of performance you should expect to be able to get on battery specifically (as opposed to all the videos that show gaming performance is tweakable to 30+ FPS powered by the wall), and here is the battery life we got when set to whatever res / detail settings / power management options in the HP management tool and / or AMD control panel were needed to hit 30FPS in modern games."

It's also possible that what I'm looking for doesn't even exist yet.  Right now, I have to use a Surface Go with LTE to stream games from my gaming desktop for treadmill use, but that leaves me with periods where 4G is congested and suddenly mid walk I have no entertainment, or where I hit my data cap.  Was really hoping Ryzen 4000 has finally enabled a 2-in-one or tablet that is a few lb, fits on the tablet lip of a treadmill, can get 1.5 - 2 hours running modern games at at least 30 FPS, is 10 inches or more so I can actually make out what's happening while my head is bouncing around walking, and doesn't throttle when in tablet mode.

So far, this is as close as premium AMD has gotten on laptops, and yet, no thunderbolt on it practically kills this device future proof. At least, it is not expensive, so even without thunderbolt, it could be useful for some light office work

Who cares about thunderbolt? If you want to use GPU, build a proper desktop.

Quote from: IonBlade on June 30, 2020, 18:02:19
I wouldn't even mind it lasting just an hour as long as I could set the various control panels to a "max performance / minimum battery" setting to get the same performance as the 4500U benchmark videos I've seen on Youtube for dozens of games, but I'm not even sure that the various power options give that level of control to make battery performance equal to wall performance.

This isn't that powerful hardware so you should be able to get pretty close. And this review does say that 3DMark score is barely reduced on battery (less than 5 %); that should give your a good indication for gaming. It kind of depends on how much headroom you have. If a game barely breaks 30 fps plugged-in, you're pushing your luck. If it's 40+ and you're happy with 30+, it should work. It's also a thermal question. Running a short benchmark and gaming for an hour are two different things. If you loose 15 % fps due to heat over time, it's going to sting if you don't have enough headroom. And then there is the fact that you want to use it folded up... If I were you, I would probably buy it, try it and return it if I'm not happy. Your use case is just too specific and unless the games have a lot of headroom in benchmarks, you just don't know. Unless you can find someone to test it for you.

Quote from: IonBlade on June 30, 2020, 15:56:53
Thanks for the excellent review!

Couple of questions that I may have missed the answer to in the article:

1) How is the battery life when gaming?  I see the load test shows 116 minutes, but is that a purely CPU load, or CPU + GPU?  (Power draw numbers weren't listed for Witcher 3, so I believe that load test may just be CPU load).  I'm hoping the machine can get 90-120 minutes while running a modern game at moderate brightness.

2) Does the machine throttle under CPU + graphics load, like playing games, when it's fully folded over into tablet mode with the back of the screen up against the back of the base? 

I have a use case where I'd like to use one of these in tablet mode propped up on a treadmill to play games.  The exhaust would be facing up, so that should be fine, but I am concerned the screen being folded over might not allow the intake to get enough air and the machine could throttle.  Would really love to get confirmation that the machine doesn't throttle in that configuration while running games for a period of time!

2hr battery life is minimum. 25w draw from the battery. This is with a CPU power limit of 14w in HP Recommended mode.
(starts off 18w then slowly goes down to 14w as 'skin temp' warms up) this is STAPM boost.

The fan noise is surprisingly low in this mode I find, once all the turbo boosting has subsided and you are just in game, power throttled to 14w, it's really reasonable.

As for fan intake, it's quite bad. Placed on a flat desk this machine is suffocated quite badly, and a little bit in tablet mode aswell. Don't even think about running anything intensive on a bed/soft surface. I am tempted to get some stick on feet for this laptop, i'd rather it not be suffocated.

Fortunately, the fan intake is in the middle, so laptop use it is fine.

Is the fan actually turned off in idle, or does it keep spinning all the time?

The review says that it stays quiet but not completely sure what that means.

A couple of days ago I saw you would make a review of the 4700u 8gb model.

Did you decide to make one of the 4500u instead of the 4700u model or is that review still coming?

And if you would like to game on the go with it. Is it worth it to spend 100 euro more for the 4700u 8gb model or 200 euro for the 4700u 16gb model?

Or are the differences that miniscule and just buy the 4500u 8gb?

Best regards!

Excellent review. Thank you for being so thorough and choosing such relevant models to compare this to.

How is the actual tablet experience of the device such as ergonomics, speakers and pen functionality?

Quote from: Jan O. on July 02, 2020, 16:14:52
Is the fan actually turned off in idle, or does it keep spinning all the time?

The review says that it stays quiet but not completely sure what that means.

The fan does turn off and will remains off until reaching +40°C

The chassis looks great. Too bad it's 16:9 and therefore unusable for any professional work.

This is an 'ultrabook' not a gaming rig.  Their mid-tier kit at that.  Since it is not billed (designed, built or marketed) as gaming machine...not sure knocking it for its performance (or lack there of) with gaming is fair.  As it pretty well kicks a** at most everything else (that it was designed for).

Unfortunately you are going to need to get a high end machine or one of the many designed for gaming (that's why they exist/what they're for), if you want a machine that 'excels' at gaming (and therefor can easily handle all other applications).

Hi guys,

one question in the article they say using USB C we can connect to Display port and ok is clear.
But they say no HDMI (connector) and of curse no thunderbolt, but this can create confusion, this means if I have USB-C to HDMI adapter it will not work due no thunderbolt?
Thanks
Ricky

Hi!

Great review, but is this a great laptop for people attending uni? I'd like to better understand if its table mode is any good, if it's compatible with a pen/stylus, how good it is at that (so I can know if it works for taking notes in class). I feel like this would truly make a difference in 2 in 1 reviews where people are paying attention to the convertible characteristic.

Thanks!

Quote from: rickyprose on July 10, 2020, 07:32:58
Hi guys,

one question in the article they say using USB C we can connect to Display port and ok is clear.
But they say no HDMI (connector) and of curse no thunderbolt, but this can create confusion, this means if I have USB-C to HDMI adapter it will not work due no thunderbolt?
Thanks
Ricky

From what I can tell, there are two options: USB-C to DisplayPort, which is better as long as your display as DP, or USB-C to HDMI, which requires a special active cable with a chip to convert the DP signal to HDMI.

Hello, everyone...

I have this laptop and I love it. Recently I bought a pair of Apple Earpods (wired, 3.5 mm jack) and they won't work well with my laptop. Every other brand works just right, but the Apple Earpods are not recognized properly. The sound is awful and the microphone doesn't work - it doesn't even show up on the sound settings.

The earbuds work just fine on other laptops (I tried it on two Asus laptops and they work with no problems at all. The microphone is properly recognized, too). Can anyone give me some advice on how to fix this?

Thanks in advance.

3.5mm devices aren't "recognized" like USB devices are, i.e. the software has nothing to do with it. Since the earbuds have a mic, the plug has four sections, and each section on the plug has to line up with the appropriate section in the socket/port. My guess would be that it's either not going in far enough (possibly because of embedded lint in the port or the casing on the plug being too bulky for that particular port) or it's going in too far. So try plugging it in the backing it out very slightly a little at a time to see if it works at any point, and if it doesn't then try checking for lint (no idea how you would go about this in such a tiny hole). You could also try another 3.5mm "headset" (headphones with mic) to see if it works, which would point to the Earpods molding being too bulky for the Envy.

Quote from: vertigo on September 28, 2020, 17:00:29
3.5mm devices aren't "recognized" like USB devices are, i.e. the software has nothing to do with it. Since the earbuds have a mic, the plug has four sections, and each section on the plug has to line up with the appropriate section in the socket/port. My guess would be that it's either not going in far enough (possibly because of embedded lint in the port or the casing on the plug being too bulky for that particular port) or it's going in too far. So try plugging it in the backing it out very slightly a little at a time to see if it works at any point, and if it doesn't then try checking for lint (no idea how you would go about this in such a tiny hole). You could also try another 3.5mm "headset" (headphones with mic) to see if it works, which would point to the Earpods molding being too bulky for the Envy.

Thank you so much for replying so quickly!

I have other headsets and they work just fine. I tried doing what you suggested (backing out slightly at a time) but it didn't work. Would this mean that the molding is too bulky for the Envy? And by that, does that mean that it isn't plugging deep enough on the port?

Thanks again!

Quote from: Francisca on September 28, 2020, 18:12:14

Quote from: vertigo on September 28, 2020, 17:00:29
3.5mm devices aren't "recognized" like USB devices are, i.e. the software has nothing to do with it. Since the earbuds have a mic, the plug has four sections, and each section on the plug has to line up with the appropriate section in the socket/port. My guess would be that it's either not going in far enough (possibly because of embedded lint in the port or the casing on the plug being too bulky for that particular port) or it's going in too far. So try plugging it in the backing it out very slightly a little at a time to see if it works at any point, and if it doesn't then try checking for lint (no idea how you would go about this in such a tiny hole). You could also try another 3.5mm "headset" (headphones with mic) to see if it works, which would point to the Earpods molding being too bulky for the Envy.

Would this mean that the molding is too bulky for the Envy? And by that, does that mean that it isn't plugging deep enough on the port?

Yes, that's what I meant, that if it's too bulky it can prevent it from plugging in deep enough, similar to how many charging cables won't work on phones in cases, because the case is getting in the way, and the cable molding hits it and can't go far enough. So it's possible that the design of the 3.5mm port on the Envy is designed in such a way that it prevents the Earpods' plug from going in all the way, though it seems pretty unlikely. HP is apparently capable of some pretty stupid design decisions, but that would be really bad. It's more likely there's lint in the port, which is keeping the plug from going in all the way (this is a somewhat common issue with USB ports on phones, since they're usually kept in pockets), but that also would be rather unlikely since a) a laptop isn't kept in a pocket, and b) it's supposedly new. But anything's possible.

Other than that, I don't know what could be causing the problem. Unless there's something very uniquely special about Earpods, it's not like a USB device where it may need certain drivers to work. 3.5mm is a "dumb" port and doesn't transfer conventional data, only audio, so as far as the computer is concerned one device is the same as the next. Do you have an extension or y-adapter you could plug into the computer and plug the Earpods (and others, for testing purposes) into?

Just looked at some images of the Earpods and the plug molding is definitely not bulky, so I doubt that's an issue. It could be that it extends ever so slightly farther (toward the tip), preventing it from going in far enough. You could compare it to another plug to see if there's a difference, but it might be so small you can't tell by eyeing it. After you check the port for lint, I'd suggest trying plugging it in then somewhat forcefully (being careful not to break anything, obviously; pinch the plug between your fingers and push that way, don't push straight on it from the end by the wire) pushing it in more to see if that makes a difference. Then trying gently angling/wiggling/spinning it to see if any particular orientation causes it to make better contact. If the "springs" in the port are too relaxed and/or the plug on the Earpods is slightly smaller than others (shouldn't be, since it's a standardized 3.5mm, but again, anything's possible, and I'm just throwing out ideas), then it might not be making good enough contact to work properly. This is where an extension or adapter would be nice, because it could help rule that out.

Quote from: vertigo on September 28, 2020, 19:00:58
Just looked at some images of the Earpods and the plug molding is definitely not bulky, so I doubt that's an issue. It could be that it extends ever so slightly farther (toward the tip), preventing it from going in far enough. You could compare it to another plug to see if there's a difference, but it might be so small you can't tell by eyeing it. After you check the port for lint, I'd suggest trying plugging it in then somewhat forcefully (being careful not to break anything, obviously; pinch the plug between your fingers and push that way, don't push straight on it from the end by the wire) pushing it in more to see if that makes a difference. Then trying gently angling/wiggling/spinning it to see if any particular orientation causes it to make better contact. If the "springs" in the port are too relaxed and/or the plug on the Earpods is slightly smaller than others (shouldn't be, since it's a standardized 3.5mm, but again, anything's possible, and I'm just throwing out ideas), then it might not be making good enough contact to work properly. This is where an extension or adapter would be nice, because it could help rule that out.

Hey, thank you so much for helping! I ended up trying to use an old adapter I had (I think it's called a splitter - it basically lets you connect two earbuds into one plug... I suppose it's the Y-adapter you mentioned) and, guess what... Now the earbuds work perfectly well! I don't think the microphone is working, since the splitter adapter only has two "lines", but at least I can use them for audio.

I'll try to clean the port anyways, to remove some possible lint. Even so, it's nice to know that there's a possible fix for this.

I tried cleaning the port but it still doesn't work, unless I use the adapter :( Too bad the adapter doesn't support microphone. I guess I can buy one that does and then it would work...

Mind if I ask another question? Is it possible to use the USB C port as an audio port? I do have an adapter for USB C - 3.5 mm and the earbuds work well when I use them on my phone (through the USB C port). Maybe that could be another way to fix this?

It should work, as that's what it's for, but depending on the adapter the mic might still not work and you may need to get a different one. Not sure if you'll be able to find a splitter cable for headsets, but there's definitely extension cables. Just keep in mind that just because the splitter worked, that doesn't mean another cable will work. But it does suggest that maybe the Earpod plug isn't going in far enough or is too small (or that the port is too "loose"). If possible, you should take your Earpods to a store and try them in some other HP laptops, especially Envys.

I see... Oh well, I guess I'm just that unlucky! :(

I tried connecting the earbuds through the USB C port, but it doesn't work at all. The audio just comes through the laptop's speakers. I'm sorry I'm asking so many questions, but do you know if there's any way to make that work?

Thanks again, you're helping me a lot!

You probably just need to switch audio devices. USB is a "smart" port and as such is managed via software, so you have to use Windows to switch between speakers and USB audio. Headphone jack causes it to switch on a lower level (most likely electrically/hardware) which happens automatically.

Thanks for still being here to help. I'll try to look for an extension cable, since that seems to be my only option.

As for the USB C port, the headphones are just not recognized... I suppose it's because they're not USB C devices by themselves. It's kinda sad that they do work on my phone, which only has a USB C port. I used them with the adapter and they work quite well. I wonder if there's any way to use them through the USB C port on my laptop...

Thanks again, like I said you're a big help!

I've never used a USB-C to 3.5mm adapter before and haven't bothered to look into them. I assumed there was a chip that would register as a device in Windows, and you would need to select that. Keep in mind it would show up as something different, not as the Earpods. It doesn't seem like it could just be a passive adapter, since USB is a data port and doesn't have (to my knowledge) pins used exclusively for audio. Maybe it needs drivers?

Yeah, maybe...

I'm really grateful for your help today. I'll keep looking, but maybe I'll just end up returning the Earpods. I wanted them for online classes, but without the microphone they won't be useful at all. Again, thank you so much! :)

Good morning i bought this pc for my wife. I noticed two negative things:
!)reading speed in my unit don't goes up to 950 mb/s and writing 850  mb/s.
2)bleeding , not too much but visible, in the high-right corner, bottom side

Someone noticed like me? Thanks for help.

Quote from: TheGiu_the_eater on October 22, 2020, 14:49:37
Good morning i bought this pc for my wife. I noticed two negative things:
!)reading speed in my unit don't goes up to 950 mb/s and writing 850  mb/s.
2)bleeding , not too much but visible, in the high-right corner, bottom side

Someone noticed like me? Thanks for help.

Both of those things can be pretty variable. Display technology is far from perfect, and the displays on several identical computers can be different in terms of their brightness, color, bleeding, etc. HDD/SSD performance is the same way, not to mention other potentially complicating factors like BIOS config, drivers, benchmark software used, etc. And you didn't say what the speeds are, just what they aren't, so there's no way to know if what you're getting is really bad or just barely under expected. Also, you may not have the same drive as the reviewed unit. Bottom line for both issues: if it doesn't bother you, and you only notice when really looking at the display or when running benchmarks, but in day-to-day use the laptop performs fine, then it doesn't matter. Most people in most situations would do fine even with a relatively slow SSD and would probably not even notice the difference between one that reads/writes at 500MB/s vs one at 2,000MB/s. IMO, IOPS are much more important, which is why I prefer NVMe over SATA for a heavily accessed drive, like for the OS, but the technology has improved so much at this point that even a budget drive is, again, almost always going to be sufficient for most people.

Quote from: vertigo on October 22, 2020, 19:00:24

Quote from: TheGiu_the_eater on October 22, 2020, 14:49:37
Good morning i bought this pc for my wife. I noticed two negative things:
!)reading speed in my unit don't goes up to 950 mb/s and writing 850  mb/s.
2)bleeding , not too much but visible, in the high-right corner, bottom side

Someone noticed like me? Thanks for help.

Both of those things can be pretty variable. Display technology is far from perfect, and the displays on several identical computers can be different in terms of their brightness, color, bleeding, etc. HDD/SSD performance is the same way, not to mention other potentially complicating factors like BIOS config, drivers, benchmark software used, etc. And you didn't say what the speeds are, just what they aren't, so there's no way to know if what you're getting is really bad or just barely under expected. Also, you may not have the same drive as the reviewed unit. Bottom line for both issues: if it doesn't bother you, and you only notice when really looking at the display or when running benchmarks, but in day-to-day use the laptop performs fine, then it doesn't matter. Most people in most situations would do fine even with a relatively slow SSD and would probably not even notice the difference between one that reads/writes at 500MB/s vs one at 2,000MB/s. IMO, IOPS are much more important, which is why I prefer NVMe over SATA for a heavily accessed drive, like for the OS, but the technology has improved so much at this point that even a budget drive is, again, almost always going to be sufficient for most people.

thanks for your replay.
At the end i discovered that the ssd, when isn't connected to electric power, performs more slowsly.
I tried benchmark of ssd connecting the machine to power supply and then seem performs normally:
seq1m q8t1 1748,84 mb/s on read / 1187,58 on write.

Quote from: TheGiu_the_eater on October 22, 2020, 23:21:25

Quote from: vertigo on October 22, 2020, 19:00:24

Quote from: TheGiu_the_eater on October 22, 2020, 14:49:37
Good morning i bought this pc for my wife. I noticed two negative things:
!)reading speed in my unit don't goes up to 950 mb/s and writing 850  mb/s.
2)bleeding , not too much but visible, in the high-right corner, bottom side

Someone noticed like me? Thanks for help.

Both of those things can be pretty variable. Display technology is far from perfect, and the displays on several identical computers can be different in terms of their brightness, color, bleeding, etc. HDD/SSD performance is the same way, not to mention other potentially complicating factors like BIOS config, drivers, benchmark software used, etc. And you didn't say what the speeds are, just what they aren't, so there's no way to know if what you're getting is really bad or just barely under expected. Also, you may not have the same drive as the reviewed unit. Bottom line for both issues: if it doesn't bother you, and you only notice when really looking at the display or when running benchmarks, but in day-to-day use the laptop performs fine, then it doesn't matter. Most people in most situations would do fine even with a relatively slow SSD and would probably not even notice the difference between one that reads/writes at 500MB/s vs one at 2,000MB/s. IMO, IOPS are much more important, which is why I prefer NVMe over SATA for a heavily accessed drive, like for the OS, but the technology has improved so much at this point that even a budget drive is, again, almost always going to be sufficient for most people.

thanks for your replay.
At the end i discovered that the ssd, when isn't connected to electric power, performs more slowsly.
I tried benchmark of ssd connecting the machine to power supply and then seem performs normally:
seq1m q8t1 1748,84 mb/s on read / 1187,58 on write.

That's interesting. I've never heard of an SSD slowing down while on battery, nor does it make sense as they use very little power. My suspicion is that the CPU is downclocking and the PCIe bus is being slowed down as a result, which is therefore affecting the drive. You could look in the BIOS and Windows settings to see if there's anything you can adjust to prevent this, but unless it's really slow on battery, I wouldn't bother, since, as I mentioned before, you're unlikely to even notice in normal usage.

Does this laptop have good speakers? Do the speakers have good bass, or should I simply just buy a pair of headphones?

Quote from: bobjoe on October 25, 2020, 16:30:15
Does this laptop have good speakers? Do the speakers have good bass, or should I simply just buy a pair of headphones?

It has quite good speakers with good level of volume but sound is poor of bass frequencies.

Can you share your screen calibration info?