Or the hx 370 is the king of low watt with only a 3-7% less compute... With much higher efficiencies at low watts. This review looks biased.
So in terms of CPU Points per Watt, INTEL, AMD, APPLE and QUALCOMM are all about equal (+- 10%, depending whether the limit is set to 20W or 28W):
QuoteIntel Core Ultra X9 388H at 28W: 22.3 Points per Watt
Qualcomm Snapdragon X Elite X1E-84-100: 22.1 Points per Watt
AMD Ryzen AI 9 465: 22.1 Points per Watt
Apple M4 Pro (12 cores): 21.8 Points per Watt
Apple M5 (10 Cores) 30.5W, 27.5W, scores still 23% better than 388H at similar 28W, but the 388H still looks very competitive and the +23% is not where I personally would make my purchasing decision based on.
But in Performance rating and Single Power Efficiency the
Apple M4 (10 cores)
MacBook Pro 14 2024 M4, 24, 24
is crazy good and Panther Lake has not improved over the previous gen.
Waiting for the iGPU measurements.
Wow after all the big talk, Panther lake is a pure disappointment! At least when the CPU is concerned.
AMD's 2 years old HX 370 on 4nm node is almost equally fast and efficient (In Cinebench 2024 multi is actually faster!).
Where is the 1.8nm node efficiency compared to AMD's 4nm?
Quote from: Citizen_not_Consumer on January 26, 2026, 19:34:41Wow after all the big talk, Panther lake is a pure disappointment! At least when the CPU is concerned.
AMD's 2 years old HX 370 on 4nm node is almost equally fast and efficient (In Cinebench 2024 multi is actually faster!).
Where is the 1.8nm node efficiency compared to AMD's 4nm?
Not a disappointment, Intel is the only CPU maker in the world that can design and fab their own CPUs. Wanting to maintain and operate their fabs instead of caving and outsourcing to TSMC a decade ago was their key chokepoint. It's why we got 14nm, 14nm+, 14nm++ etc.
Everyone else, AMD, Nvidia, MediaTek, Qualcomm, Playstation, Xbox, Apple etc rely on TSMC or other companies/fabs to make their CPUs and especially their GPUs.
There is no "AMD's 4nm", there is only TSMCs 4nm. And we know that these node names/numbers don't mean much these days.
The fact is that Panther Lake can match Arrow Lake in terms of performance while using similar or less power. It's funny how you singled out one of the few tests where it loses aka "Cinebench 2024" and it's only by a relatively small margin.
Also, AMDs 2 year old HX370 has been recycled in 2026 with the HX470 after two years, in 2026 AMD doesn't have anything new to offer, Exact Same CPU, GPU & NPU with marginally higher clocks. Same outdated RDNA 3.5 Architecture with zero support for FSR4.
Panther lake has the most powerful GPU with a 128-bit bus, beats the 890M in every single test, especially if Ray-tracing is involved.
All that's left is the GPU, they signed a multi-year contract with TSMC and thus the 12 Core GPU and Platform Tiles are still made by TSMC. The 4 Core GPU is made by Intel's 18A however which shows intel can Fab their own GPUs, The platform tile will be easy to carry over too. It's what they are finalizing now.
In a year or two Intel will be Designing and fabbing their CPU, GPU and Platform Tile for desktops, laptops and handhelds, that vertical stack will be unrivalled for a chipmaker.
The point isn't whether Intel absolutely crushes AMD or not, the question is, Can they compete? With panther lake, the answer is yes, finally they can, after a long dry spell.
For the first time I can recommend an Intel Laptop/Handheld chip over a Ryzen HX 370/470.
Strix Halo without FSR4 or frame-gen support is the only thing higher and it's way more expensive.
So yes, Intel is back.
@kninez
,,...especially their GPUs."
Yep – Intel INCLUDED lol
@Tyler
Are you blind??? Did you read this?
,,However, the difference to the Ryzen AI 9 HX370 is small, so Intel has only caught up here."
Did you see the table???
Intel Core Ultra X9 338H
794 points
959 points
1,043 points
1,136 points
AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX370
760 points
927 points
1022 points
1107 points
You call this ,,This beats the pants off anything AMD has..." = 1136 vs 1107? loool
As someone that hasn't bought an Intel cpu in 10 years, I feel Panther Lake is a good product and have no problems taking it over any Gorgon Point product. I could wait for Nova Lake or Zen 6, but my laptop is now 190 years old and really struggling. Something better is always on the horizon.
AMD is saddled by being stuck on 4nm, but they could have offered a better refresh than Gorgon if they could care at all about consumer market and not just AI datacentres. Stix Halo is still stupidly expensive and hard to find and with Zen 6 apu's not out for well over a year Panther Lake will rule x64 in 2026. I might change my tune if Qualcomm X2 Elite show big improvements, but they still face the issue of having pathetic driver support.
Overall it looks a good product but I take issue with some of the comparisons here. It is missing comparison to Strix Halo. It was included in the GPU review but for some reason missing here for the CPU analysis. Especially at lower power settings it would be an interesting comparison.
Also regarding some of the comments below, before you disregard Strix Halo as a different class, you should check the prices. This Zenbook (2600 euros) is priced above the Asus ROG Flow Z13 (2200 euro for 32 GB version).
Quote from: M2026 on January 27, 2026, 00:00:31@kninez
,,...especially their GPUs."
Yep – Intel INCLUDED lol
@Tyler
Are you blind??? Did you read this?
,,However, the difference to the Ryzen AI 9 HX370 is small, so Intel has only caught up here."
Did you see the table???
Intel Core Ultra X9 338H
794 points
959 points
1,043 points
1,136 points
AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX370
760 points
927 points
1022 points
1107 points
You call this ,,This beats the pants off anything AMD has..." = 1136 vs 1107? loool
Still faster....fast is faster....and AMD fans hate admitting when intel is faster, but can always point out when AMD is......but we should also just ignore IGP performance as well......destroyed. Go drink some more copium
Quote from: Tyler on January 27, 2026, 06:18:57Quote from: M2026 on January 27, 2026, 00:00:31@kninez
,,...especially their GPUs."
Yep – Intel INCLUDED lol
@Tyler
Are you blind??? Did you read this?
,,However, the difference to the Ryzen AI 9 HX370 is small, so Intel has only caught up here."
Did you see the table???
Intel Core Ultra X9 338H
794 points
959 points
1,043 points
1,136 points
AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX370
760 points
927 points
1022 points
1107 points
You call this ,,This beats the pants off anything AMD has..." = 1136 vs 1107? loool
Still faster....fast is faster....and AMD fans hate admitting when intel is faster, but can always point out when AMD is......but we should also just ignore IGP performance as well......destroyed. Go drink some more copium
Lmao they'll defend AMD's neverending rebranding to the death too but heaven forbid Intel or nVidia actually release something good for once...
Time for the fanboys to wake up: Intel is serious about GPU. Desktops aren't everything, and even there AMD is losing hand-over-fist to nVidia. Laptops are the way forward. Intel played their cards right, and should be rewarded this time for actually bringing a new architecture to consumers.
@Tyler
1. yes, it is faster – 2,6%, that is so interesting or even a "gamechanger"? 1,8 nm vs 4 nm and less, than 3%???
2. I am NOT an AMD fan – the opposite, that is why this is a disappointment for me as well, but let´s wait for the workstations
3. the iGPU is great, but only for MS Office, accounters etc. Not a single CAD/CAM guy will buy the Panther Lake laptop because of the iGPU!
@opckieran
,,Time for the fanboys to wake up..."
Yes, it is about the time to wake up – FOR YOU! Loool
Hype for how long, more than 1 year and then 3% better (sorry 2,6% :), than the 370 = 1,8nm vs 4nm? loool
NikoB would always rant at how disappointly AMDs memory controller performed. Guess he was correct. We know APUs are mainly bottlenecked by bandwidth and Intel made a big deal over their memory compression tech, which seems to be paying in dividends now.
Quotethe hx 370 is the king of low watt with only a 3-7% less compute
There are no convertibles with the HX370/375 available right now. No apples-to-apples comparison opportunity. See?
@M2026
It's a game changer in heat, noise and battery life. And it's interesting because we know their decent igpu will be in more than 1 laptop with actual volume (unlike AMD).
I feel like you're stressing over the finer details like %'s gains and nm's way too much and are missing the bigger picture.
The only thing which seems a little "yikes" is the apparent pricing for some of these laptops but I'm sure over time this will go down after the release of Snapdragon X2 and Nvidia's N1(X).
Quote from: opckieran on January 27, 2026, 06:28:01Lmao they'll defend AMD's neverending rebranding to the death too but heaven forbid Intel or nVidia actually release something good for once...
My favourite is:
- When AMD is beating Intel in benchmark ABC then it's always "Hahah, Intel is so trash, AMD is beating it in the ABC"
- When Intel is beating AMD in that same benchmark: "The ABC is a complete irrelevant trash, AMD is better."
Perfect recent example from this article: Intel Core Ultra X9 388H chip crushes AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX 470, Core Ultra 9 285H in latest Passmark appearance (https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-Ultra-X9-388H-chip-crushes-AMD-Ryzen-AI-9-HX-470-Core-Ultra-9-285H-in-latest-Passmark-appearance.1210727.0.html)
Quote from: Worthless on January 23, 2026, 23:39:30Passmark is a worthless benchmark.
Quote from: Kei on January 23, 2026, 20:42:58Intel's Core Ultra X9 388H is definitely promising
Unfortunately, I think it'll be short-lived now that N1X is going to be announced officially in a few months. Proper Nvidia drivers with RTX 5070 performance in an APU. Why would anyone get this anymore?
AMD fanatics are truly something else...
@Consumers_Are_Citizens
,,It's a game changer in heat, noise and battery life."
Well, what do you think is the difference between TDP 28W vs 28W (Intel vs AMD)?
What do you think is the difference between TDP 45W vs 45W (Intel vs AMD)?
In the case of Intel, 28/45W is less than 28/45W in the case of AMD? You can't be serious! :)
In the case of passmark the difference is "huge" - less than 4%, in the case of cinebench less than 3%. Is this the mentioned "gamechanger"?
Moreover, everyone is now praising iGPU on Intel, but professional software needs a powerful GPU, not this...!
But okay, in the case of the praised iGPU I will use slightly modified words of "kninez":
There is no "Intel's iGPU", there is only TSMC's iGPU glued to Intel. loool
There are not enough tests yet, let's wait for reviews of really powerful workstations. But if these numbers are confirmed, it will be just another chapter in Intel's "How to rip off the customer" manual...I don't want to be a bad prophet, but compare the presentation of Intel, Nvidia and AMD at CES 2026 - that says something.
Quote from: M2026 on January 27, 2026, 13:33:09There is no "Intel's iGPU", there is only TSMC's iGPU glued to Intel. loool
So you just described AMD, Apple and Nvidia. Nothing but TSMC's dGPUs and iGPUs. Coping level pro.
"So you just described AMD, Apple and Nvidia. Nothing but TSMC's dGPUs and iGPUs. Coping level pro."
Maybe you should take it in context, but you would have to read that with understanding.
Quote from: M2026 on January 27, 2026, 13:58:50"So you just described AMD, Apple and Nvidia. Nothing but TSMC's dGPUs and iGPUs. Coping level pro."
Maybe you should take it in context, but you would have to read that with understanding.
Yes, the context you mentioned it quite literally - it's not Intel's iGPU but TSMC's. And, of course, glorified SCAMD:
Quote from: M2026 on January 27, 2026, 13:33:09Moreover, everyone is now praising iGPU on Intel, but professional software needs a powerful GPU, not this...!
But okay, in the case of the praised iGPU I will use slightly modified words of "kninez":
There is no "Intel's iGPU", there is only TSMC's iGPU glued to Intel. loool
There are not enough tests yet, let's wait for reviews of really powerful workstations. But if these numbers are confirmed, it will be just another chapter in Intel's "How to rip off the customer" manual...I don't want to be a bad prophet, but compare the presentation of Intel, Nvidia and AMD at CES 2026 - that says something.
Sure, not understanding yourself is your starting point, but that's a whole different story...
Intel's 1.8nm appears to be a total failure:
1. All potential customers (Apple, Qualcomm, etc) who tested Intel's 1.8nm left running to queue up at TSMC and Samsung despite the increased prices and long waiting times. Intel intself is using TSMC for critical components (iGPU, and many CPU tiles still).
2. Intel's Panther Lake 1.8nm CPU efficiency is equal to 4nm TSMC's.
3. In few months Zen 6 is released (already in production for EPYC) and Intel will be trailing again for years.
The only thing Intel is good at, is spending taxpayers money by receiving huge subsidies (just received another $150 billion from Pentagon) instead of these money going to better education or health care so future generations can be better educated and compete internationally!
Quote from: M2026 on January 27, 2026, 08:45:40@Tyler
1. yes, it is faster – 2,6%, that is so interesting or even a "gamechanger"? 1,8 nm vs 4 nm and less, than 3%???
2. I am NOT an AMD fan – the opposite, that is why this is a disappointment for me as well, but let´s wait for the workstations
3. the iGPU is great, but only for MS Office, accounters etc. Not a single CAD/CAM guy will buy the Panther Lake laptop because of the iGPU!
@opckieran
,,Time for the fanboys to wake up..."
Yes, it is about the time to wake up – FOR YOU! Loool
Hype for how long, more than 1 year and then 3% better (sorry 2,6% :), than the 370 = 1,8nm vs 4nm? loool
Keep coping! You honestly believe customers make their final purchasing decision based on the *manufacturing node* as opposed to performance and efficiency?? And the GPU is 70% faster than 370's, not 3% (CPU perf parity doesn't help AMD either btw). Nobody said this iGPU was aimed at CAD/CAM. That's you shifting the goalposts.
Quote from: Citizen_not_Consumer on January 27, 2026, 14:43:53Intel's 1.8nm appears to be a total failure:
1. All potential customers (Apple, Qualcomm, etc) who tested Intel's 1.8nm left running to queue up at TSMC and Samsung despite the increased prices and long waiting times. Intel intself is using TSMC for critical components (iGPU, and many CPU tiles still).
2. Intel's Panther Lake 1.8nm CPU efficiency is equal to 4nm TSMC's.
3. In few months Zen 6 is released (already in production for EPYC) and Intel will be trailing again for years.
The only thing Intel is good at, is spending taxpayers money by receiving huge subsidies (just received another $150 billion from Pentagon) instead of these money going to better education or health care so future generations can be better educated and compete internationally!
No actual consumers give a sh*t about manufacturing nodes... It's just e-peen measuring for nerds. Real customers care about the final product.
Zen 6 better be good for AMD's sake. After Panther Lake, Zen 6 needs to be +20% over Zen 5 if they want to stay competitive in the laptop space!
And at this point, I'd rather subsidize companies than get any more Learing Centers! Putting our education in the hands of foreigners... All that accomplished was us getting scammed to high heaven! I didn't vote for this woke-mandated nonsense!
Quote from: Worgarthe on January 27, 2026, 11:15:46AMD fanatics are truly something else...
There are quite a few in this thread but not me lol. My comment was said solely out of passionate hatred for Passmark in general. Wasn't even thinking of AMD at all.
M2026, it's really not that deep. Every single reviewer who has tested this chip says they were impressed with noise and thermals compared to AMD. From here we can infer it's a noticeable step up in efficiency without even diving into the numbers.
But if you insist on stats and graphs, I already stated earlier ThePhawx made a 1 hour video testing panther lake vs strix halo, at low tdps (15W and 30W). At 15W in the majority of cases it's beating strix halo. At 30W is very similar or almost as fast as strix halo.
Mind you, Phawx has previously been more of an AMD fan in recent years and was previously not enthusiastic at all for Intel's panther lake when asked. He is literally the definitive authority when it comes to amd handheld tdp efficiency testing and even he has stated, that intel is back now.
Quote from: Consumers_Are_Citizens on January 27, 2026, 15:49:22But if you insist on stats and graphs, I already stated earlier ThePhawx made a 1 hour video testing panther lake vs strix halo, at low tdps (15W and 30W). At 15W in the majority of cases it's beating strix halo. At 30W is very similar or almost as fast as strix halo.
Great comment, and the video you're talking about is also quite excellent. However, one small correction regarding the part in bold - it is beating it in all cases as the Strix Halo cannot even run at less than 13W, and it's not even close the Panther Lake up until 20W. Everything else you said is correct 👍
@Worgarthe
,,Sure, not understanding yourself is your starting point, but that's a whole different story..."
I hope your "deep thoughts" don't burden you too much...
@Citizen_not_Consumer
Your post #20 = bingo! (but don't tell the fanboys, especially the point 2. lol)
@opckieran
,,You honestly believe customers make their final purchasing decision based on the *manufacturing node* as opposed to performance and efficiency??"
,,Real customers care about the final product."
Bingo Einstein! :)))
EXACTLY, nobody except of the stupid fanboys care about the manufacturing – only performance and efficiency is what matters, BINGO!!!
So, who, except of you and the other fanboy(s) will buy the Panther Lake, if it can barely beat the 370??? 3% is what matters to somebody, who is looking for a new laptop, really??? NOOOOOOO!
I can buy a slightly used powerfull laptop for +/- the same price, same performance, BUT much better NVIDIA GPU!
,,Putting our education in the hands of foreigners... All that accomplished was us getting scammed to high heaven! I didn't vote for this woke-mandated nonsense!"
Oh, trumpist on the RADAR, sorry I mean "genius" lol
Are you trying to tell me that Intel also fell because of foreigners? That "fantastic" Intel, which only got into laptops and workstations thanks to bribery, not competitiveness - foreigners were also to blame for that???
Can't the decline of the USA be blamed on those AMERICANS who exported production to China (or other Asian countries), thus destroying the industry in the USA, or are foreigners also to blame for that?
Nothing can be further from the truth, because you can't even wipe your a** in the US without foreigners, you "genius"!
@Consumers_Are_Citizens
Once again – is really 28/45W TDP in case of Intel LESS, than 28/45W TDP in case of AMD, really?
You mean, something like 5GHz in case of Intel is MORE, than 5GHz in case of AMD?
Or 100km/h in case of Ferrari is more, than 100km/h in case of AUDI? Loool
"From here we can infer it's a noticeable step up in efficiency without even diving into the numbers."
Something like benchmark without numbers? OK :)))
Quote from: M2026 on January 27, 2026, 19:13:32Once again – is really 28/45W TDP in case of Intel LESS, than 28/45W TDP in case of AMD, really?
You mean, something like 5GHz in case of Intel is MORE, than 5GHz in case of AMD?
Or 100km/h in case of Ferrari is more, than 100km/h in case of AUDI? Loool
"Impressive" IQ level, I'll admit that. If an iGPU at 30W is faster than another iGPU at 30W, and that makes it difficult for you to understand it... Yeah, just "impressive".
@w
""Impressive" IQ level, I'll admit that."
Indeed, I must admit that you are a "genius" too, because I have never written about the iGPU and never will, because for me and many others who don't just use MS Office or play solitaire in work, it's not important.
The CPU is ESSENTIAL, but none of you Intel fanboys mention it, because the performance compared to the Series 2 is not worth mentioning (at least according to the tests available so far) :)))
Quote from: M2026 on January 27, 2026, 19:13:32@Worgarthe
,,Sure, not understanding yourself is your starting point, but that's a whole different story..."
I hope your "deep thoughts" don't burden you too much...
@Citizen_not_Consumer
Your post #20 = bingo! (but don't tell the fanboys, especially the point 2. lol)
@opckieran
,,You honestly believe customers make their final purchasing decision based on the *manufacturing node* as opposed to performance and efficiency??"
,,Real customers care about the final product."
Bingo Einstein! :)))
EXACTLY, nobody except of the stupid fanboys care about the manufacturing – only performance and efficiency is what matters, BINGO!!!
So, who, except of you and the other fanboy(s) will buy the Panther Lake, if it can barely beat the 370??? 3% is what matters to somebody, who is looking for a new laptop, really??? NOOOOOOO!
I can buy a slightly used powerfull laptop for +/- the same price, same performance, BUT much better NVIDIA GPU!
,,Putting our education in the hands of foreigners... All that accomplished was us getting scammed to high heaven! I didn't vote for this woke-mandated nonsense!"
Oh, trumpist on the RADAR, sorry I mean "genius" lol
Are you trying to tell me that Intel also fell because of foreigners? That "fantastic" Intel, which only got into laptops and workstations thanks to bribery, not competitiveness - foreigners were also to blame for that???
Can't the decline of the USA be blamed on those AMERICANS who exported production to China (or other Asian countries), thus destroying the industry in the USA, or are foreigners also to blame for that?
Nothing can be further from the truth, because you can't even wipe your a** in the US without foreigners, you "genius"!
Ok since you struggle with reading comprehension (clearly a Learing Center graduate):
No sh*t you can buy a laptop with an nVidia dGPU. Nobody said you couldn't do that! What a "genius" observation of yours! Sure, it'll be heavier, thicker, use more power, have half the battery life, and be VRAM limited for AI applications. Have fun with that! If you want to throw a tantrum since Intel produced a good product, go right ahead.
Nobody said anything about Intel falling because of foreigners. Just you (again, terrible reading comprehension lol). And if you want to talk about being able to wipe your a**, the non-western world has a much bigger problem with that. Public sewer/sanitation doesn't even exist as a concept to many of them! Some "genius" you turned out to be. Looks like you need remedial Learing sessions... We need to fix that "genius" heuristic of yours!
@all the stupid trumpist and other "geniuses":
According to ThePhawx YT video, here are the numbers:
CPU/TDP 10W 15W 20W 28W 30W 35W 40W 45W
AI MAX 390 370 587 645 840 910 1005 1080 1140
AI MAX+ 395 510 674 796 1020 1075 1155 1228 1379
X9 388H 560 691 796 940 975 1025 1078 1120
So, the X9 388H is better than the 395 only up to ca 22W and better than the 390 only up to ca 38W. That is it...
Quote from: M2026 on January 27, 2026, 20:16:37Indeed, I must admit that you are a "genius" too, because I have never written about the iGPU and never will,
👇
Quote from: M2026 on January 27, 2026, 13:33:09There is no "Intel's iGPU", there is only TSMC's iGPU glued to Intel.
Once again:
Quote from: M2026 on January 27, 2026, 13:33:09There is no "Intel's iGPU", there is only TSMC's iGPU glued to Intel.
@opckieran
,,Nobody said anything about Intel falling because of foreigners."
Of course not, but I thought (naively) that you can get the point – it was about whether foreigners are responsible for "everything bad" in the USA – including Intel's results...
You didn't get it, but that's okay...
,,And if you want to talk about being able to wipe your a**, the non-western world has a much bigger problem with that. Public sewer/sanitation doesn't even exist as a concept to many of them!"
That wasn't about sewer/sanitation at all. loool
To make you understand, I tried to point out that people who are bothered by foreigners would be completely done without them - figuratively speaking, "you can't even wipe your ... without them"...
PS: who do you think is a "true American"? You? Then you must be a native American whose origins date back to before 1492!
(as a "true American" I hope you at least know why I mentioned 1492 :)))
Quote from: M2026 on January 27, 2026, 20:36:50better than the 390 only up to ca 38W.
This makes sense when you consider out of the 16 panther lake cores, 4 are ultra low power. So they don't really count for performance tasks or as performance cores.
So for really a 12 core to compete another 12 core up to 38w. I would say that's reasonable.
It also shows just how much Intel's e cores have improved. They're almost zen 5 like in performance or equal to intel's own P cores.
The only thing that's missing is avx-512 which will be coming in Nova Lake.
"There is no "Intel's iGPU", there is only TSMC's iGPU glued to Intel."
The point of this sentence was that Intel doesn't make its own iGPU either...not that I'm interested in iGPUs...
Some people here must be members of the no-thinking sect, because they are unable to understand even a hint of irony.
I don't know why, but when I reply to Trump fanatics here (or on other forums), an unnamed song by an unnamed American band from 2004 comes to mind, which deals with the situation caused by the education system that was "destroyed by foreigners" :)))
Quote from: M2026 on January 27, 2026, 21:33:50"There is no "Intel's iGPU", there is only TSMC's iGPU glued to Intel."
The point of this sentence was that Intel doesn't make its own iGPU either...not that I'm interested in iGPUs...
Some people here must be members of the no-thinking sect,
👇
Quote from: Worgarthe on January 27, 2026, 13:42:02Quote from: M2026 on January 27, 2026, 13:33:09There is no "Intel's iGPU", there is only TSMC's iGPU glued to Intel. loool
So you just described AMD, Apple and Nvidia. Nothing but TSMC's dGPUs and iGPUs. Coping level pro.
Quote from: M2026 on January 27, 2026, 21:09:18@opckieran
,,Nobody said anything about Intel falling because of foreigners."
Of course not, but I thought (naively) that you can get the point – it was about whether foreigners are responsible for "everything bad" in the USA – including Intel's results...
You didn't get it, but that's okay...
,,And if you want to talk about being able to wipe your a**, the non-western world has a much bigger problem with that. Public sewer/sanitation doesn't even exist as a concept to many of them!"
That wasn't about sewer/sanitation at all. loool
To make you understand, I tried to point out that people who are bothered by foreigners would be completely done without them - figuratively speaking, "you can't even wipe your ... without them"...
PS: who do you think is a "true American"? You? Then you must be a native American whose origins date back to before 1492!
(as a "true American" I hope you at least know why I mentioned 1492 :)))
What the heck are you talking about?? "Wiping my a**" has literally
everything to do with sewer and sanitization loool unless you're gross and just drop it wherever (again, far more common outsite the West).
And since clearly facts are a real challenge for you:
An American is someone who is a descendent of the Anglo/Western European settlers who eventually founded and constituted the internationally diplomatically recognized power known as the United States of America (Hence, "American"). It does not pertain to any peoples of any other groups or nations which may have been here beforehand;
those people did not even refer to themselves as Americans! They had their own cultures and customs. So, implying them to be "true Americans" is just an inaccurate, cope thing to do. Typical of TDS.
Please tell me you didn't pay too much for your Learing Center Diploma 🤣🤣🤣
Ok, but just speak of US citizens.
Quote from: M2026 on January 27, 2026, 20:36:50@all the stupid trumpist and other "geniuses":
According to ThePhawx YT video, here are the numbers:
CPU/TDP 10W 15W 20W 28W 30W 35W 40W 45W
AI MAX 390 370 587 645 840 910 1005 1080 1140
AI MAX+ 395 510 674 796 1020 1075 1155 1228 1379
X9 388H 560 691 796 940 975 1025 1078 1120
So, the X9 388H is better than the 395 only up to ca 22W and better than the 390 only up to ca 38W. That is it...
But isn't this power envelope is what matters for reasonable lightweight and portable laptops.
Quote from: well on January 28, 2026, 10:03:09Quote from: M2026 on January 27, 2026, 20:36:50@all the stupid Mr. Bullyist and other "geniuses":
According to ThePhawx YT video, here are the numbers:
CPU/TDP 10W 15W 20W 28W 30W 35W 40W 45W
AI MAX 390 370 587 645 840 910 1005 1080 1140
AI MAX+ 395 510 674 796 1020 1075 1155 1228 1379
X9 388H 560 691 796 940 975 1025 1078 1120
So, the X9 388H is better than the 395 only up to ca 22W and better than the 390 only up to ca 38W. That is it...
But isn't this power envelope is what matters for reasonable lightweight and portable laptops.
But X9 388H needs 61.4 watts when playing games, so no, 22 watts is not what matters. At 61.4 395 Halo leaves it in the dust: notebookcheck.net/Asus-ExpertBook-Ultra-review-One-helluva-debut-for-Intel-Panther-Lake-X7.1209366.0.html#c15434979
Quote from: Citizen_not_Consumer on January 28, 2026, 17:32:10But X9 388H needs 61.4 watts when playing games, so no, 22 watts is not what matters.
You do realize 65 watts is the absolute max this chip can draw right?
It draws 60+ watt when running Prime95+Furmark combined.
Obviously, that 61.4 watts is running on max profile and likely when connected to charger. (Although author could make it a bit more clear here)
But just like strix halo can get much of its performance at 55w and even scales well to down to 35w from its max 120w. So too can panther lake. It does not need the full wattage to perform well:
notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/webp/Notebooks/Asus/ExpertBook_Ultra_B9406CAA/stresscyberbala-png-q82-w2560-h.webp
This from running Cyberpunk stress test on balanced profile. You see here, 25w.
@opckieran
,,What the heck are you talking about?? "Wiping my a**" has literally everything to do with sewer and sanitization..."
I never had a high opinion of the "geniuses" who voted for Bush jr. or now Trump, but you are unique even among them, because even an imbecile (IQ ca 30-50) would understand that simple sarcastic remark...
So, for the Trump "geniuses" - my remark that you can't even wipe your a** in the USA without foreigners means, that without those foreigners the USA would COLLAPSE, you "genius", because a significant part of the lousy jobs no American wants to do, you "genius", those are very often the worst jobs and of course, poorly paid ones, you "Trump-type genius".
That is one pillar of the US economy - the use of cheap labor of foreigners/from abroad.
The second, much more important, is printing worthless green paper, the production of which costs 1-2 cents per piece, but has a face "value" 100 (USD), which you then export to the whole world and the world gives you REAL VALUES for that paper - that is a 5000-10 000-fold appreciation of the green paper. Drug dealers can only dream about that, and this is exactly what the prosperity of the US is based on - these 2 pillars.
When it comes to foreigners and the worst jobs, it often changes after 1-2 generations, because those foreigners very often do not suffer from intellectual deficits (which is not your case), which is why they manage to get high on the social ladder.
Just look at the people who work and often even manage, for example, Intel, AMD, NVIDIA, Google or other companies, because being born in the USA is not a qualification, you also need to have something in your head and you "geniuses" cannot understand that and the only thing you know is whining and blaming others for your own incompetence and you are clear proof of that...
Without foreigners, exporting green paper to the whole world, and patents from Britain (for free) and the Nazis (stolen) you would still be producing that old Nazi's car - the Ford T!
That's why you should kiss foreigners' asses, not insult them, you retard...sorry, "genius".
QuoteWe start with the single-core performance, and here the new Panther Lake processor is only just ahead of its predecessors.
CPU seems unchanged vs the predecessor. So for next gen in 2027, Intel needs to improve their CPU side of things, maybe single-core especially, as even Snapdragon X Elite and Plus have a higher Points per Watt power efficiency.
Update 3: Ryzen AI CPUs are still better. After more testing we've established that, up until now, we'd been talking nonsense, but we had to write something positive about Panther Lake, with some nice misleading headlines. We were in a hurry after all, Panther Lake was a "surprise" (it had only "just" been announced and delayed for ages), so we didn't have time to properly check what we were writing. Besides, the Ryzen chips had been on the market for a year and everyone had already tested them at very low voltages, but we forgot to do the same properly.
Summary:
- The smaller Core Ultra X7 358H at lower power limits is beaten by the AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX 370.
- The flagship Core Ultra X9 388H at 28W and above is beaten by the AMD Ryzen AI Max+ 395. At 20W the scores are 794 vs 717. lol
- The same iGPU in the flagship Core Ultra X9 388H at 35W and above is even beaten by itself when paired with the smaller 358H. The 358H with exactly the same iGPU is faster.
And for this "miracle" Intel used the best manufacturing process it had available, the much-hyped 18A with all the "amazing" improvements we've been nagged about for years (we're talking CPU here as the iGPU is produced by TSMC) versus the Ryzen that still uses an old 4nm process. Good luck next round as AMD has already started producing server Venice at 2nm, when desktop and mobile Zen 6 will also arrive.
Intel also forces manufacturers to use only LPDDR5X-9600 (1600 faster than LPDDR5X-8000 of Ryzen) for the fastest models as this 388H.
Manufacturers had to redesign laptops from scratch because, as usual, Intel keeps changing the platform.
Production costs for these Panther Lake CPUs are huge because yields are poor. For these reasons a laptop that uses them costs about $2,600, even more than one with the Ryzen 395+.
And this is the final result?
Oh, and the iGPU...it's awful. It loses by a "hair" to the 8060S...is "only" 40% slower. lol
Yes, but this Panther Lake flagship 388H can be somewhat competitive when used at 15...10...5...1W.
So you buy a flagship that costs over $2,500 and then always run it at only 15W? Or leave it idle for hours?
It's a laptop, you need it to turn on and be usable, not a desktop that can sit idle for hours. Don't you have a better, cheaper option if you only need something for browsing or light use?
For the iGPU it's even worse as at that power it will always be under 30 FPS, so games are unplayable. It's useless. MFG? No, please not again. I beg you, let's not start explaining why that isn't a solution. It has already been explained extensively why it solves nothing, so don't make us go through this stupidity again.
Seriously, rather than accepting these unusable FPS from B390, just take your smartphone or a large tablet to play some android games, it's faster and saves you over $2,500 for nothing.
Maybe, besides inserting updates here and there across the Panther Lake articles it would also be useful to modify also the headlines accordingly (not just this article but the others too), and perhaps update or remove the outdated comparative charts that are still present, for example in this one.
QuoteThe same iGPU in the flagship Core Ultra X9 388H at 35W and above is even beaten by itself when paired with the smaller 358H. The 358H with exactly the same iGPU is faster.
If it's true, it's a pro-B390 point.
QuoteFor these reasons a laptop that uses them costs about $2,600,
I think the cheapest B390 APU-only laptop so far is roughly 1300 + taxes? (which is too much, if you ask me)
Indeed, in the end, the price to performance will decide. Cheapest 4050 laptop is like 700-800 bucks.
(text after that I'm gonna read later)
Quote from: ChaliEx on February 01, 2026, 18:33:30So you buy a flagship that costs over $2,500 and then always run it at only 15W?
Everything is overpriced atm. Even amd handhelds, costing $1500 for z2 Extreme. So it's reasonable to expect these to atleast be as much. 2.5k is for the very niche dual screen notebooks, those have always been very premium even before ram shortage.
Running something at 110w? You're far better doing so in SFF pc, if you need something higher wattage with _sustained_ performance but still portable.
Quote from: ChaliEx on February 01, 2026, 18:33:30MFG?
MFG is personally not useful to me as someone only interested in online multiplayer but I could see it being usable for someone who plays slower paced single player cinematic story games.
Quote from: ChaliEx on February 01, 2026, 18:33:30Seriously, just take your smartphone or a large tablet to play some Android games, it's faster and saves you over $2,500 for nothing.
The biggest issue here is no portable arm device comes with a proper desktop class GPU (most of the arm igpu's come with terrible drivers). The closest thing to this for me would be exynos 2600 w/ Xclipse 960 (based on rdna4) but I hate Samsung. The next closest thing would be n1x but it's not out yet.
Quote(we're talking CPU here as the iGPU is produced by TSMC) versus the Ryzen that still uses an old 4nm process.
According to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panther_Lake_(microprocessor), Panther Lake is using TSMC N3E and it may not the best available node, this may go to N3P (Apple is supposedly using it for its M5 series chips). (currently best available is prob TSMC 2N, but of course, everyone would be surprised if it was used for Panther Lake)
Quoteand perhaps update or remove the outdated comparative charts that are still present, for example in this one.
(the rest of the text seems mostly about the price, which is fair enough (you say 2500 is too much? I say 1300 is still too much)) Which ones?
Prices aren't relevent when nothing is going to be available for another 5 months.
strix halo is in approximately 0 consumer laptops. (Z13 is a tablet, zbook ultra g1a is business)
I dislike Asus so the tuf A14 does not an option for me at all. The first real halo laptop for me will be in the upcoming Lenovo legion, but afaik, that's not launching for at least another 8 months.
So both are pretty much paper launches as far as I'm concerned.
What people see in retail shops in the streets is LNL, ARL-H/HX and KRK.
Also, it's difficult to compare nodes when the numbers are all marketing and they're all so highly specialised. 18A seems better than 4nm but by how much we don't really. Could be more like a 3.5nm or 3nm or 2.5nm..which is why I try to avoid the nm discussion entirely.
Quote from: ye on February 01, 2026, 20:47:35The same iGPU in the flagship Core Ultra X9 388H at 35W and above is even beaten by itself when paired with the smaller 358H. The 358H with exactly the same iGPU is faster.
QuoteIf it's true, it's a pro-B390 point.
For me, it means that the B390 requires significantly more watts to function optimally. When paired with a more powerful CPU that consumes additional watts, the CPU and iGPU struggle to share the power. In my opinion, this indicates that, in order to showcase low power consumption for the 388H, Intel set a limit on the maximum power, which is too low as the main goal was to demonstrate an efficiency that is not actually the story they want to sell us. In fact, the updated benchmarks reveal that the reality is quite different, as added later.
Quote from: ye on February 01, 2026, 20:47:35For these reasons a laptop that uses them costs about $2,600
QuoteI think the cheapest B390 APU-only laptop so far is roughly 1300 + taxes? (which is too much, if you ask me)
Indeed, in the end, the price to performance will decide. Cheapest 4050 laptop is like 700-800 bucks.
But here, the article is about the X9 388H, not the less powerful variants that have a very weak iGPU. They used the ZenBook Duo UX8407 for tests with the X9 388H. According to the article on this website, 'In Germany, the new ZenBook Duo UX8407 can be pre-ordered from Asus for an RRP of 2,599 euros (approximately $3,080 based on late January 2026 exchange rates). Deliveries commence on February 18.'
This means the price is even worse for the X9 388H, not around $2,500, but closer to $3,100.
Quote from: ye on February 01, 2026, 21:14:07Quote(we're talking CPU here as the iGPU is produced by TSMC) versus the Ryzen that still uses an old 4nm process.
According to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panther_Lake_(microprocessor), Panther Lake is using TSMC N3E and it may not the best available node, this may go to N3P (Apple is supposedly using it for its M5 series chips). (currently best available is prob TSMC 2N, but of course, everyone would be surprised if it was used for Panther Lake)
Panther Lake combines hybrid CPU cores manufactured using Intel's in-house 18A process with integrated graphics based on the Arc Xe3 architecture. However, it's important to note that some models, particularly the 12-core iGPUs, continue to rely on TSMC manufacturing for the GPU, utilizing the N3E process.
Moreover, both Strix Halo and Strix Point CPU and iGPU are produced with TSMC's N4P fabrication process.
This raises significant concerns. As I have mentioned, Intel utilized the best resources they have for the CPU, the 18A node about which they've been telling "stories" for years and which has often felt like unobtanium (because it wasn't functioning, and in reality, it's still not ready even now after years, as it still has very low yields). For the iGPU, they opted for the most recent manufacturing process available at TSMC (excluding those that are already fully booked). Yet, the results are what we see today.
I want to emphasize that this CPU family was launched now, not a year ago. It was supposed to be competitive in future perspective. More advanced fabrication processes should enable greater performance if the chip design is good. However, it seems that the best they could achieve is only this. For me, this is a disappointing outcome.
QuoteBut here, the article is about the X9 388H, not the less powerful variants that have a very weak iGPU. They used the ZenBook Duo UX8407 for tests with the X9 388H.
All 3 (as of this posting) Arc B390 iGPUs are about equally fast (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panther_Lake_(microprocessor)#Panther_Lake). The Duo just makes getting a Arc B390 APU quite a bit more expensive. Also, the title is "Intel Panther Lake Core Ultra X9 388H performance analysis - Outpaces Arrow Lake and exceeds Zen 5 in efficiency" and nothing with Duo in it. Doesn't matter what they used, all B390 will be about equally fast. So, again, the cheapest B390 will be 1300 + taxes AFAIHaveSeen. The 32 GB soldered RAM, even if it's 9600 MT/s, is a downer tho, so I'm only interested if it's like no more than 700 bucks..maybe in 2-3-4 years it will be like that, used. The cheapest (used) RTX 4060 laptop (not 4050 laptop, so it's faster than the Arc B390), can be get for 700 bucks.. But an iGPU-only laptop may be lighter than a 4050 laptop.
QuotePanther Lake combines hybrid CPU cores [..]
Not sure on what [Intel] node the predecessor CPU part is made on, but Panther Lake has not improved on the CPU front, if I saw it correctly, at least not in power efficiency, but it's fine, for me the iGPU performance matters much more and here Panther Lake delivered, but price is the elephant in the room.
@ye:
The panther lake laptops that start at $1299 you wouldn't really want. Comes with a 60 Hz display. Just like the rtx 4060 laptops you can get for $700 you wouldn't want, due poor build quality.
The laptops that people want for panther lake start at $1599. And for the laptops with rtx 4060, they're a lot more than $700 too. Depends on your region, but where I'm at even used are like $1000+. New start at $1300 minimum, not even premium build quality ones, those are closer to $1699-$1899.
A big thing for me is the complete laptop overall laptop experience. People are purely looking at specs or price but if my budget is $1200 I'm willing to pay $400 more (so like $1600 total) just for something that the superior 1100+ nit screens, longer battery, super light weight and doesn't produce much heat. Just how people are spending $1350 on a Legion Go 2 (for the killer screen).
I think the days of $700 open box / refurbished laptops is over and long gone. That's almost like asking for a mid to high tier desktop GPU for $200 now because we used to. Those days are not coming back.
QuoteThe panther lake laptops that start at $1299 you wouldn't really want. Comes with a 60 Hz display. Just like the rtx 4060 laptops you can get for $700 you wouldn't want, due poor build quality.
Sure, both would be the lowest tier, but the 4060 laptop is still cheaper and faster.
But even with 90 Hz I wouldn't get a B390 for $1300.
QuoteThe laptops that people want for panther lake start at $1599.
Sure, but they are $1600. But: In 2 to 4 years they will sell at 1/2 to 1/3, used/refurbished.
QuotePeople are purely looking at specs or price but if my budget is $1200 I'm willing to pay $400 more (so like $1600 total)
Then your budget is $1600.
I know it partially defeats the point of a gaming laptop, but how about a used $800 4060 laptop and attaching an OLED monitor to it? One gets a bigger size (further to eyes and less strain) and better display.
QuoteI think the days of $700 open box / refurbished laptops is over and long gone.
Nope: Go on the known sites, search for '4050 laptop' or '4060 laptop', sort by price.
QuoteThat's almost like asking for a mid to high tier desktop GPU for $200 now because we used to.
This one is true.
This thread is by far one of the funniest things I have ever read in my entire life. Thank you all involved for such an entertaining read.