California + Tesla + Tijuana + illegal wiring = road to success
Also yeah, Tesla report on fires is a joke, they've included even ICE cars that caught fire because of campfire or arson. That report also has some pearls like "our batteries degrade 15% in 200000 miles" without mentioning that you have to actually drive those miles non-stop, and climate has to be mild, because they also degrade of age and they degrade because of climate, because they have to keep themselves cold/warm and cycle.
Quote from: Goberman on August 07, 2024, 18:54:22Also yeah, Tesla report on fires is a joke, they've included even ICE cars that caught fire because of campfire or arson.
Not sure which part of that is a joke? EV catches on fire due to campfire or arson and somehow that should count, but not for ICE cars? Double standards much?
QuoteThat report also has some pearls like "our batteries degrade 15% in 200000 miles" without mentioning that you have to actually drive those miles non-stop, and climate has to be mild, because they also degrade of age and they degrade because of climate, because they have to keep themselves cold/warm and cycle.
There was an article a short while back of a Model 3 driving 200,000 miles over 6 years and only having 9-10% degradation.
Also, climate doesn't have that much of an impact on lifespan when an EV has proper thermal management system like Tesla. It is only a problem for those who don't include a passive system like Nissan Leaf
Quote from: A on August 07, 2024, 20:51:10EV catches on fire due to campfire or arson and somehow that should count
Different distributin of causes. ICE catch fire when owners are stupid. EV catch fire in car accidents, which is more dangerous because people can be inside.
Quote from: A on August 07, 2024, 20:51:10There was an article a short while back of a Model 3 driving 200,000 miles over 6 years and only having 9-10% degradation.
I call bs unless he has charged it, ran it until it's dead while streaming/filming the process non-stop, and showed the actual mileage it ran on a single charge. I bet his battery is at around 70% best case. Or you will be like "oh no, tesla PR department would never hire youtubers".
Quote from: A on August 07, 2024, 20:51:10Also, climate doesn't have that much of an impact on lifespan when an EV has proper thermal management system like Tesla
On what power source does that system run? Battery. Car is going through its mileage when you have no idea about it. The more extreme the weather is, the more hidden battery mileage you get. If weather is too extreme for conditioning system to cope (basically almost every harsh winter or heatwave), battery get even more wear.
only 7 of them catch fire for various reasons. For comparison, ICE cars ignite nearly 9 times times more often on average.
Not considering there's 14x more ICE cars on the road. And some of them are 30yrs old w/unsafe/unmaintained mechanicals.
Quote from: jimbo on August 07, 2024, 21:11:28only 7 of them catch fire for various reasons
You can open google and find much more.
Idk, believing in "EV car producer busted myth about EV cars by posting "no it's not" paper online" is like zero critical thinking.
Quote from: Qwentyn on August 07, 2024, 21:01:54Different distributin of causes. ICE catch fire when owners are stupid. EV catch fire in car accidents, which is more dangerous because people can be inside.
What? ICE cars can catch fire for all kinds of reasons from crashes to a spark igniting the fumes. If you have a minor leak from wear and tear, someone smoking from other side of the street can if you are not lucky cause your ICE car to catch fire.
As mentioned, EVs are multiple times less likely to catch on fire. And in the case they do, they reroute the fire outside of the passenger compartment
QuoteI call bs unless he has charged it, ran it until it's dead while streaming/filming the process non-stop, and showed the actual mileage it ran on a single charge. I bet his battery is at around 70% best case. Or you will be like "oh no, tesla PR department would never hire youtubers".
Not BS at all, there are even 3rd party companies that keep track of this stuff. The 15% loss after 200k miles is average, them getting 9-10% likely means they outperformed average. Of course there would be some who get less than average too.
QuoteOn what power source does that system run? Battery. Car is going through its mileage when you have no idea about it. The more extreme the weather is, the more hidden battery mileage you get. If weather is too extreme for conditioning system to cope (basically almost every harsh winter or heatwave), battery get even more wear.
Not really, cold has little impact on lifespan. Heat may have impact, but that is what thermal management is for. Humans don't live in a conditions that is too much for the system to cope.
Quote from: A on August 08, 2024, 02:00:15If you have a minor leak from wear and tear,
)) Leak from where? Wear and tear of what? You are overestimating the auto-flammability of ICE cars. What they did is just completely skewed data by making it "per million miles". Data amounts are incomparable, so it's rigged in favor of EV. What we see in reality is almost every serious crash with EV ends with a fire, while ICEs smash into smitherens and still fine (not in the movies though).
Quote from: A on August 08, 2024, 02:00:15The 15% loss after 200k miles is average
I know a guy with 4% battery loss but 10% range loss. And again those 200K miles have to be done the sooner the better, not like normal people with 15K... maybe 20K/year. That's why EV are popular in taxi - they manage to reap the initial period of lower service costs and just sell those destroyed cars with weird batteries cheap.
Quote from: A on August 08, 2024, 02:00:15Not really, cold has little impact on lifespan.
Battery heater has an impact on lifespan. Everything that works behind the scenes and uses charge thus making you do more cycles has an impact.
Quote from: A on August 08, 2024, 02:00:15Humans don't live in a conditions that is too much for the system to cope.
I knew people in Egypt and UAE are fake. More coping = more wasted charge = more cycles = more battery wear. Easy. Both hot and cold.
Quote from: Qwentyn on August 08, 2024, 02:32:28)) Leak from where? Wear and tear of what? You are overestimating the auto-flammability of ICE cars. What they did is just completely skewed data by making it "per million miles". Data amounts are incomparable, so it's rigged in favor of EV. What we see in reality is almost every serious crash with EV ends with a fire, while ICEs smash into smitherens and still fine (not in the movies though).
Quite funny for someone who is overestimating the flammability of EVs.
In US alone, every 5 minutes an ICE car catches on fire. It's a common occurrence, so common that no one cares. There was a car fire I saw just the other week, doesn't make the news at all. Because it didn't block traffic so nobody cared because of how common it is
An EV catches on fire anywhere in the world for any reason, guarantee you it will make the world news. Precisely because of how rare it is, thus making it news worthy
I remember there was an incident when an EV caught on fire in a garage, was all over global news for weeks. Then after fire department investigation, they found the cause of the fire was the ICE car parked next to it. Guess how many news outlets made a correction? Only a few local ones, not a single national or global paper.
QuoteI know a guy with 4% battery loss but 10% range loss. And again those 200K miles have to be done the sooner the better, not like normal people with 15K... maybe 20K/year. That's why EV are popular in taxi - they manage to reap the initial period of lower service costs and just sell those destroyed cars with weird batteries cheap.
Based on what do you say they have a 4% battery loss but 10% range loss?
QuoteBattery heater has an impact on lifespan. Everything that works behind the scenes and uses charge thus making you do more cycles has an impact.
Not significant. I mean do realize something about cycling. Lifespan of batteries varies on how you cycle them. When you do shallow cycles, it has less impact than deep cycles. And most people don't drive to 0 every day
QuoteI knew people in Egypt and UAE are fake.
What?
Quote from: A on August 08, 2024, 05:37:24In US alone, every 5 minutes an ICE car catches on fire.
And you are also skewing data again for dramatic effect, it's just because there's much more ICE cars. And it's mostly not in car accidents.
Quote from: A on August 08, 2024, 05:37:24Based on what do you say they have a 4% battery loss but 10% range loss?
On a range measurement vs. calculated from car data.
Quote from: A on August 08, 2024, 05:37:24An EV catches on fire anywhere in the world for any reason, guarantee you it will make the world news.
Because they catch fire in every accident with battery puncture? Or you will be going against chemistry?
Quote from: A on August 08, 2024, 05:37:24Not significant.
Extremely significant to the point you have to charge you car every day in hot or cold weather. Have you had an EV?
Quote from: A on August 08, 2024, 05:37:24What?
40-50C common temps, hot weather all year long. There is a reason why EVs are not popular in rich UAE/Dubai markets.
"Tesla shared the stats that for each million miles driven with its electric cars, only 7 of them catch fire for various reasons. For comparison, ICE cars ignite nearly 9 times times more often on average."
So 1,000,000/7=142,857/9=20,408. So Tesla's on average catch fire every 143k miles, and ICE cars catch fire every 20k miles? Weird I have driven ICE cars about 1 million miles in my 45 years of driving and are yet to have my first fire when I should have had 40+ fires...
I suspect those stats are per 100 MILLION miles? Very sloppy...
Quote from: Goberman on August 08, 2024, 11:49:43And you are also skewing data again for dramatic effect, it's just because there's much more ICE cars. And it's mostly not in car accidents.
If you count the cars on the road and factor that in EVs still ~10x less likely to catch on fire.
QuoteOn a range measurement vs. calculated from car data.
So not on a dynamo to insure that you have no variables?
QuoteBecause they catch fire in every accident with battery puncture? Or you will be going against chemistry?
That is false, you have to puncture a battery cell, just puncturing the battery alone will not start a fire. As I said, batteries have crumple zones and deflectors that reduce risk of puncture of the cells. In comparison, ICE cars gasoline tanks and engines are much easier to puncture and can cause a fire
QuoteExtremely significant to the point you have to charge you car every day in hot or cold weather. Have you had an EV?
I live in a place that can get over 100 degrees and also very cold below 0. I don't need to charge my EV every day. I do it out of convenience of trickle charging, but it can easily last a week on a single charge hot or cold
Quote40-50C common temps, hot weather all year long. There is a reason why EVs are not popular in rich UAE/Dubai markets.
You are saying a country where almost half of government's income being oil and gas, EVs are not popular?
What a stupid article
"People burn down their own home after illegally wiring Tesla to a power pole for free electricity"
There, fixed your title and opener. Wild that journalists dismiss grammar; your high school English teacher is so disappointed
6x more likely. Fuel cars are 60x more likely to catch fire. While yes they are harder to put out with improper equipment. Places are implementing the new electric extinguishers across the country.
You think 20 gallons of fuel just gets put out with water? Both have complications. Ignorant new writer. Hopefully they see this and never utilize your content again. :)
Quote from: A on August 09, 2024, 02:48:56If you count the cars on the road and factor that in EVs still ~10x less likely to catch on fire.
Probability of ICE on ICE accident is much higher that accident involving EV because of their much much higher numbers.
Quote from: A on August 09, 2024, 02:48:56So not on a dynamo to insure that you have no variables?
Pointless question just to go away from inconvenient fact.
Quote from: A on August 09, 2024, 02:48:56just puncturing the battery alone will not start a fire
A vs. chemistry.
Quote from: A on August 09, 2024, 02:48:56I don't need to charge my EV every day. I do it out of convenience of trickle charging
Lol
Quote from: A on August 09, 2024, 02:48:56but it can easily last a week on a single charge hot or cold
Yeah imagine "lasting a week" when you sit in your car that was just resting outside for 2-3 days and it's at 15% despite last time it was fully charged.
Quote from: A on August 09, 2024, 02:48:56You are saying a country where almost half of government's income being oil and gas, EVs are not popular?
Norway also makes 30% off oil and gas.
Your arguments are getting weaker and weaker.
Sounds like an illegal electrical connection at a house on fire not the car. Clickbait
Quote from: Russ on August 09, 2024, 02:23:16"Tesla shared the stats that for each million miles driven with its electric cars, only 7 of them catch fire for various reasons. For comparison, ICE cars ignite nearly 9 times times more often on average."
So 1,000,000/7=142,857/9=20,408. So Tesla's on average catch fire every 143k miles, and ICE cars catch fire every 20k miles? Weird I have driven ICE cars about 1 million miles in my 45 years of driving and are yet to have my first fire when I should have had 40+ fires...
I suspect those stats are per 100 MILLION miles? Very sloppy...
Yeah it's a BS made up stat. I'm 54 and also have never had my car catch on fire and have even been in around 10 cars that were totalled in my life.
I also have saw very few other ice cars catch fire on the highway or anywhere.
Usually if an ice car catches fire it's because someone did something dumb.
Also, no my ice car isn't going to catch on fire because someone is smoking a cigarette. If that was true half the pump's in town would burn down every day everywhere.
Quote from: Wade on August 12, 2024, 17:37:04Quote from: Russ on August 09, 2024, 02:23:16"Tesla shared the stats that for each million miles driven with its electric cars, only 7 of them catch fire for various reasons. For comparison, ICE cars ignite nearly 9 times times more often on average."
So 1,000,000/7=142,857/9=20,408. So Tesla's on average catch fire every 143k miles, and ICE cars catch fire every 20k miles? Weird I have driven ICE cars about 1 million miles in my 45 years of driving and are yet to have my first fire when I should have had 40+ fires...
I suspect those stats are per 100 MILLION miles? Very sloppy...
Yeah it's a BS made up stat. I'm 54 and also have never had my car catch on fire and have even been in around 10 cars that were totalled in my life.
I also have saw very few other ice cars catch fire on the highway or anywhere.
Usually if an ice car catches fire it's because someone did something dumb.
Also, no my ice car isn't going to catch on fire because someone is smoking a cigarette. If that was true half the pump's in town would burn down every day everywhere.
If you check the source link, it says 7 per BILLION not million. A typo here.
Quote from: Russ on August 09, 2024, 02:23:16"Tesla shared the stats that for each million miles driven with its electric cars, only 7 of them catch fire for various reasons. For comparison, ICE cars ignite nearly 9 times times more often on average."
So 1,000,000/7=142,857/9=20,408. So Tesla's on average catch fire every 143k miles, and ICE cars catch fire every 20k miles? Weird I have driven ICE cars about 1 million miles in my 45 years of driving and are yet to have my first fire when I should have had 40+ fires...
I suspect those stats are per 100 MILLION miles? Very sloppy...
If you check the source link, it says 7 per BILLION not million. A typo here.
Quote from: jimbo on August 07, 2024, 21:11:28only 7 of them catch fire for various reasons. For comparison, ICE cars ignite nearly 9 times times more often on average.
Not considering there's 14x more ICE cars on the road. And some of them are 30yrs old w/unsafe/unmaintained mechanicals.
Both stats are
per million miles driven (actually should be per
billion miles if you check the source link. 7 EV and 63 ICE is too many per million miles) It has nothing to do with which one has more on the road.
Quote from: Bob Lee on August 12, 2024, 19:28:37actually should be per billion miles if you check the source link
So it's a difference between 0.000000007 and 0.000000063 probability.
Shiiiiieeeet, that's a serious argument in favor of EV (no it's not).
Where's the plug coming out of the charge port then.... Fake news
Quote from: Goberman on August 12, 2024, 08:32:28Probability of ICE on ICE accident is much higher that accident involving EV because of their much much higher numbers.
The numbers factor in cars on the road, nice try.
QuotePointless question just to go away from inconvenient fact.
If you are not doing a stable test, then variations can simply be driving habit. You know, the scientific method.
QuoteA vs. chemistry.
You think puncturing metal causes a fire? lol, learn basic chemistry first
QuoteYeah imagine "lasting a week" when you sit in your car that was just resting outside for 2-3 days and it's at 15% despite last time it was fully charged.
Resting your care for 2-3 days isn't going to discharge it to 15%. An EV while fully running the heater can last 3 days let alone doing nothing
QuoteNorway also makes 30% off oil and gas.
You seem to be mistaking something. Norway's oil and gas funding goes towards the people of Norway. They are the only major oil and gas producer who was pushing heavily for transitioning off. Unlike the middle east oil countries who used the convention to get off oil and gas as an opportunity to do deals to sell more oil and gas
Quote from: Wade on August 12, 2024, 17:37:04Yeah it's a BS made up stat. I'm 54 and also have never had my car catch on fire and have even been in around 10 cars that were totalled in my life.
I also have saw very few other ice cars catch fire on the highway or anywhere.
Usually if an ice car catches fire it's because someone did something dumb.
Also, no my ice car isn't going to catch on fire because someone is smoking a cigarette. If that was true half the pump's in town would burn down every day everywhere.
Statistics are like that. I've owned a smartphone for 20 years, and not me or anyone in my family have ever cracked a screen despite multiple drops. Can we now claim cracked smartphone screens aren't real?
You will always have more fires be it ICE or EV when someone does something dumb. You will also have cases of bad luck, be it manufacturer defect, poor design choices that were fine in testing but caused an issue in an off case scenario and etc.
It gets even more complex when people will never admit they did something dumb, and media only reports on the first response but never on the final investigation results
That said, in US alone, there is an ICE car catching on fire every ~5 minutes. That is the reality.