NotebookCHECK - Notebook Forum

It's already out of date, Ryzen 8000 series is out, with 3× inference speed. And as usual for Lenovo, no sensible panel option, either low quality with touch, or too high resolution with no touch.

Ryzen 8000 has been announced, but it isn't available, so strictly speaking, no, it isn't out of date. Add to that: Ryzen 8040 as it has been announced is only a small update over Ryzen 7040, as those are basically the same CPUs in most ways. So there is almost zero reason to consider this model a bad choice in terms of its platform.

I get strong vibes of 2010 nostalgia every time I see LAN port on a laptop.

They give it a High score of 90% but I would give it a minimum of 95%, something that few laptops have achieved because this Lenovo for that price and everything it offers has plenty of power, performance, consumption, etc... it is a laptop that if they sold it In Europe at that price it would be gone in a day. This laptop is being recommended in many professional forums and can become a Best Seller because it has everything: RNDA 3 + USB 4.0 + HDMI 2.1 + AMD built at 4nm compared to Intel at 7nm and to top it off this AMD has Artificial Intelligence that surpasses new one that Intel has released.

Especially this feature and the RJ45 port are important differentiators compared to other laptops with this CPU. Competition is stiff: The HP EliteBook 845 G10 has louder speakers, a more premium chassis and RAM slots, but it lacks the user replaceable keyboard and RJ45. Similarily, the Lenovo ThinkPad T14s G4 AMD lacks those features, but it has a more lightweight, premium design.

Don't understand the last period, should not be about another laptop model?

Quote from: A on December 27, 2023, 17:15:42I get strong vibes of 2010 nostalgia every time I see LAN port on a laptop.

And now what is your opinion on LAN ports?

Quote from: LL on December 27, 2023, 18:13:21Don't understand the last period, should not be about another laptop model?

The T14s G4 is not the same laptop as the T14 G4

Quote from: RobertJasiek on December 27, 2023, 18:44:37And now what is your opinion on LAN ports?

My opinion they belong to USB docks.
Laptop has to be thick to accommodate it and you aren't going to need one anyway unless you are at the desk.

For many, being at the desk with a notebook is a frequent use case. Docks are useful only if one needs several extra ports; otherwise LAN on the notebook is the simple placement. Thick is an exaggeration; not thin is a more appropriate description.

As a reminder, LAN is good for transfer stability and security.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on December 27, 2023, 19:16:38Thick is an exaggeration; not thin is a more appropriate description.

Idk, around x1.5 the thickness of Macbook Air, which is about the same computing power, is "thick" in my book.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on December 27, 2023, 19:16:38being at the desk with a notebook is a frequent use case

Plug in your dock with LAN port then.

Again Lenovo is being redneck - instead of lpddr5 7500 it soldered the slow 6400. And I don't believe the result at a memory write speed of 94GB/s - it is too different from the speed in read/copy mode. In addition, access latency is simply monstrous - 130ns+(!) A complete shame for Lenovo engineers for such RAM settings in the BIOS. In addition, this directly affected the performance of the integrated graphics.

According to the author, despite the fact that this is a T series, the strength of the case has dropped very much compared to older models.

I would never give an fhd screen with such characteristics more than 82-83 points. In addition, I do not believe in the contrast result of 1700:1+. And I have long proposed checking the contrast with a calibrator by steps of 50 nits up to 30 nit, plotting a graph of changes in contrast depending on brightness. Not everything is clean there from different manufacturers, as tests of different models of panels from different models have shown problems with contrast for low brightness (<50%).
If there was 4k@120Hz and really with a contrast of 1700:1, then the screen would deserve at least 90 points. And if the real response was less than 7ms on B2W/G2G and no glare, then 95+ points would be possible.

As for the ports, as usual, Lenovo is bad for the fact that there is no power supply through the usual, round corner plug - there is a place for it on the left edge. Then the laptop could be used much more comfortably by reclining right-handers. And so USB-c power supply, as usual. idiotically sticks out perpendicular to the case and it is quite easy to break it while lying with the laptop on the sofa or bed - especially for right-handed people.

Well, there is room on the eSATA on the left or right - they could have brought at least one port out with it (or better yet, in the back, as power supply). This is necessary for testing the HDD in exclusive mode, which cannot be done via USB3+/USB40 under Windows/Linux.

After all, the old T series 10 years ago were much more packed with capabilities and solutions. And much stronger by case...

Quote from: NikoB on December 27, 2023, 20:15:42I don't believe the result at a memory write speed

Quote from: NikoB on December 27, 2023, 20:15:42I do not believe in the contrast result of 1700:1

That's some quality analytics.

Quote from: NikoB on December 27, 2023, 20:15:42eSATA

"don't believe" - "don't believe" - "eSATA"
Looks like laptop isn't bad at all if even NikoBipolar clearly ran out of ideas about how he can sh*t on it.

Just look at psref:
Installed memory is actually 7500MHz, but run at 6400MHz due to platform limitation.

Quote from: toNiko on December 28, 2023, 10:18:15Installed memory is actually 7500MHz, but run at 6400MHz due to platform limitation.

Lenovo marketers, as usual, lie:
www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-7-7840u
Official support for 7500 has been announced.

As usual, another participant appears who is not in the subject of real hardware support.

Quote from: NikoB on December 28, 2023, 12:54:46

Quote from: toNiko on December 28, 2023, 10:18:15Installed memory is actually 7500MHz, but run at 6400MHz due to platform limitation.

Lenovo marketers, as usual, lie:
www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-7-7840u
Official support for 7500 has been announced.

As usual, another participant appears who is not in the subject of real hardware support.

Sleep wakeup problems of the SoC if the RAM runs at 7500. Not that you are aware of that, it's all a great conspiracy where Lenovo (and everyone else) is lying, lol.

Quote from: A on December 27, 2023, 18:52:54

Quote from: RobertJasiek on December 27, 2023, 18:44:37And now what is your opinion on LAN ports?

My opinion they belong to USB docks.
Laptop has to be thick to accommodate it and you aren't going to need one anyway unless you are at the desk.

Just because you don't need a LAN port doesn't mean no one else does. I use the LAN port on my laptop constantly while working on site and would never cosider a laptop without one. Having to use a dock just to get ports that should already be on the laptop already is extreamly annoying. Also I do not understand this moronic obsession for making laptops as thin as possible at the expense of literally everything else. What exactly does making a laptop 2mm thick actually achieve other than worse battery life, worse keyborad, worse cooling, weaker construction and crap port selection? Some poeple do actually need a laptop for work and not as a fashion accessory. If you desperately want a thin Thinkpad then Lenovo have multiple other models already (T14s, X1 etc). No need to ruin the T14/P14s.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 15:36:05Just because you don't need a LAN port doesn't mean no one else does

Where did I say I don't need it. I said it belongs to USB dock.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 15:36:05Having to use a dock just to get ports that should already be on the laptop already is extreamly annoying

Vice versa, it's a proper way to use it. You sit at the table, plug everything in (display, mouse/keyboard receiver, LAN, etc.) at once, using one USB cable. You stand up, plug everything out at once. You don't need LAN port on the go, waste of space.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 15:36:05What exactly does making a laptop 2mm thick actually achieve other than worse battery life, worse keyborad, worse cooling

Are you saying this Lenovo is built better or has a better battery life than MBA? )

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 15:36:05Having to use a dock just to get ports that should already be on the laptop already is extreamly annoying

Vice versa, it's a proper way to use it. You sit at the table, plug everything in (display, mouse/keyboard receiver, LAN, etc.) at once, using one USB cable. You stand up, plug everything out at once. You don't need LAN port on the go, waste of space.

Again YOU don't need a LAN port on the go. Stop assuming that your use case is the only one that exists. As I said, I use the LAN port on the go costantly. I don't use my laptop at a desk - I have a desktop for that. I use my laptop on site where I regularly need to plug into isolated networks.
If you don't need a LAN port then you are well catered for by the thousands of ultra-thin LAN port free models available. Go buy one of them and stop inisitng that every laptop on the market must be designed specifically for you and your requirements.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 15:36:05What exactly does making a laptop 2mm thick actually achieve other than worse battery life, worse keyborad, worse cooling

Are you saying this Lenovo is built better or has a better battery life than MBA? )
[/quote]
I don't care at all about Apple laptops. They are useless to me. They are also impossible to self repair and the support in the UK at least is rubbish compared to Lenovos on-site support.
This is beside the point anyway. Are you saying the MBP wouldn't have a better battery life and more durable build if it was thicker? You don't even need to answer the first one as the MBP has a far better battery life than the MBA.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 16:01:52I use my laptop on site where I regularly need to plug into isolated networks.

Get a dock.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 16:01:52I don't care at all about Apple laptops.

You've said thinner laptops are built worse and have better battery life. I opposed. Immediately you've lost interest.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 16:01:52Are you saying the MBP wouldn't have a better battery life and more durable build if it was thicker?

How is it even related. MBP is just more powerful and requires a bigger body. ) They both are simslarly durable.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 16:01:52You don't even need to answer the first one as the MBP has a far better battery life than the MBA.

Why, I can answer that. Battery life of M2 MBA is about the same as M3Max MBP. Sorry for ruining your theory.

I know REAL people who go about and plug in LAN here and there on their jobs, they use USB->LAN for durability. Trip over or pull LAN cable - and either you have a damaged port on laptop or you simply replace a dock. I myself had LAN cable pulled by robot vacuum too, port got damaged - replaced dock, easymode.

So yeah, my opinion is get a dock for LAN.

QuoteGet a dock.

Why they hell should I carry a dock just to give me functionality that should already be built into the laptop? Docks break, docks get lost, docks get "borrowed and not returned", docks get left behind - I hate them. They are an stupid solution to a stupid problem.

QuoteYou've said thinner laptops are built worse and have better battery life. I opposed. Immediately you've lost interest.

I havn't lost interest. You started talking about Apple products that are not relevent here. This is a review on a Lenovo laptop. Lenovo's thinner laptops are not as durable and have worse battery lives. I Know - i've used and repaired them.

QuoteHow is it even related. MBP is just more powerful and requires a bigger body. ) They both are simslarly durable.

I meant to put MBA there.

QuoteWhy, I can answer that. Battery life of M2 MBA is about the same as M3Max MBP. Sorry for ruining your theory.

Your comparing differnet generations which is pointless. Also you are saying that a much more powerfull and newer MBP has comparable battery life to a slower, older MBA? I guess being thicker does help.

Quote from: A on December 28, 2023, 16:34:33I know REAL people who go about and plug in LAN here and there on their jobs, they use USB->LAN for durability. Trip over or pull LAN cable - and either you have a damaged port on laptop or you simply replace a dock. I myself had LAN cable pulled by robot vacuum too, port got damaged - replaced dock, easymode.

So yeah, my opinion is get a dock for LAN.

Ive never had that problem and tripping over a LAN cable connected to a dock is more likley to damage the USB connector on the laptop the dock is plugged into. 8P8C connectors are far more durable than USB-C

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 16:40:46Docks break...docks get lost, docks get "borrowed and not returned", docks get left behind

Don't push on drama, the story becomes too unrealistic. ) "Dock can drop out of your shirt pocket and roll all the way to the road right under someone's car!" Dock is convenient, you can only bring it when you really need ports - and carry smaller/lighter laptop if you don't. Convenient? Yep.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 16:40:46Your comparing differnet generations which is pointless.

I'm comparing the latest generations. There's no M3 MBA.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 16:40:46Also you are saying that a much more powerfull and newer MBP has comparable battery life to a slower, older MBA?

I am saying there's no direct correlation between body size and battery life/build quality/keyboard quality.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 16:43:18Ive never had that problem

Now you know it is a thing. Google up "broken LAN port" if you don't believe me.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 16:43:18to damage the USB connector on the laptop the dock is plugged into

Nah, LAN ports are quite fragile, USB-C are sturdy, hard to break it by pulling the cable out.

QuoteDon't push on drama, the story becomes too unrealistic. ) "Dock can drop out of your shirt pocket and roll all the way to the road right under someone's car!" Dock is convenient, you can only bring it when you really need ports - and carry smaller/lighter laptop if you don't. Convenient? Yep.

Literally every single one of the things I have mentioned has happened to me or someone I work with multiple times. If you don't think these things happen you should maybe go out into the real world ocassioanly.
This laptop is already small and thin. I don't see any advantage in making it thinner. I put it in a backpack that could carry about 10 of them so making it thinner or light gives me no benefit whatsoever and loads of downsides. If you want a laptop thats 1mm thin fine I don't care. Just don't assume everyone else does.

QuoteI am saying there's no direct correlation between body size and battery life/build quality/keyboard quality.

For a given laptop, being thicker will allow for more material and therefore be stronger. That is basic mechanical engineering. Also for a given laptop, being thicker will allow for a larger battery and therefore more battery life. It will also allow for a better cooling solution and longer travel keyboard. If you don't care about performance or keyboard quality fine but and other people do.

QuoteNow you know it is a thing. Google up "broken LAN port" if you don't believe me.

If you google "Broken anything" you will find stuff. Literally everything can be broken so i'm not sure what you point is here. Searching for "Broken USBC port" brought up twice as many results as LAN ports despite 8P8C connectors being around for nearly 40 years.

QuoteNah, LAN ports are quite fragile, USB-C are sturdy, hard to break it by pulling the cable out.

Yeah just no. I rarely see broken 8P8C ports but see loads of broken USB-C ports. In 15 years I have never broken a LAN port or known anyone else to either so it does not concern me.

I find this discussion really unnecessary. Lenovo has a dedicated variant of this laptop - the ThinkPad T14s G4 - without a LAN port and a thinner chassis in return. I don't see how the T14 would be any better without the RJ45. It is already a pretty lightweight and reasonably thin laptop, and I doubt you can make it much thinner with the given materials and cost limits of this design. The T14s uses a more expensive metal base design to allow for the thinner profile and just by removing the RJ45, the laptop does not get magically thinner.

In the end, I am sure if no one needed an RJ45 on a laptop anymore, Lenovo would not offer it any longer. Having this port on the go is just a very different use case vs. having it on a dock at the desk.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 17:39:33every single one of the things I have mentioned has happened to me or someone I work with multiple times. If you don't think these things happen you should maybe go out into the real world ocassioanly.

"Multiple times"... So you and your colleagues never learn? ) Maybe you have to leave imaginary world, idk.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 17:39:33being thicker will allow for more material and therefore be stronger. That is basic mechanical engineering.

More creaky plastic is stronger than less aluminum? ) Okaaaay, mechanical engineering of alternate universe is tight.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 17:39:33For a given laptop, being thicker will allow for more material and therefore be stronger. That is basic mechanical engineering. Also for a given laptop, being thicker will allow for a larger battery and therefore more battery life.

"Given laptop" already has its size and form. You can only compare laptop to laptop, just like you suggested comparing MBP and MBA yourself, when you considered it's convenient and an easy win ))). So again, there's no direct correlation between laptop size and build quality/battery life/keyboard quality.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 17:39:33If you google "Broken anything" you will find stuff. Literally everything can be broken so i'm not sure what you point is here. Searching for "Broken USBC port" brought up twice as many results as LAN ports despite 8P8C connectors being around for nearly 40 years.

You had one thing to do: check if pulling out LAN cable really easily damages the port. Instead you just counted results on unrelated search request. Okaaay.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 17:39:33but see loads of broken USB-C ports

Okay, yeah, I've seen enough, it's your imaginary world. Colleagues constantly losing and stealing hubs multiple times, tons of USB-C ports broken by pulling out the cable... Further conversation has no sense, you will simply pull out more of these made up arguments from your hat, whatever I say. Have a good one.

Quote from: Benjamin Herzig on December 28, 2023, 18:07:24Having this port on the go is just a very different use case vs. having it on a dock at the desk.

Don't really have to be "dock at the desk", USB->LAN are the size of half of a match box + short cable.

Quote from: A on December 28, 2023, 18:16:20

Quote from: Benjamin Herzig on December 28, 2023, 18:07:24Having this port on the go is just a very different use case vs. having it on a dock at the desk.

Don't really have to be "dock at the desk", USB->LAN are the size of half of a match box + short cable.

So carry more things with more weight overall instead of having a 0.85 mm thicker laptop with less total weight? Genius. Apple evangelists in their true form 😁

Quote from: Toortle on December 28, 2023, 18:28:11more things with more weight

dlink.com/en/products/dub-e250-usb-c-to-25g-ethernet-adapter
Yeah, you'll have to do some push ups to carry this for sure.

Quote from: Toortle on December 28, 2023, 18:28:11Genius

Nah, just a reasonable person, who doesn't make up stories about needing LAN port on laptop all the time.

Quote from: Toortle on December 28, 2023, 18:28:11having a 0.85 mm thicker

Or x1.5 thicker? As an "Apple evangelist", I am comparing everything to MBA. )) Actually I'm just comparing roughly based on CPU power.

Quote"Multiple times"... So you and your colleagues never learn? ) Maybe you have to leave imaginary world, idk.

Nope I just buy laptops that have a LAN port built in. Problem solved.

QuoteMore creaky plastic is stronger than less aluminum? ) Okaaaay, mechanical engineering of alternate universe is tight.

Thinkpads are generally magnesium chassis unless it's one of the cheap ones.

QuoteYou had one thing to do: check if pulling out LAN cable really easily damages the port. Instead you just counted results on unrelated search request. Okaaay.

I did and found many more results showing that a USB-C port is easily damaged than a ethernet port. Sorry if that reality annoys you.

QuoteOkay, yeah, I've seen enough, it's your imaginary world. Colleagues constantly losing and stealing hubs multiple times, tons of USB-C ports broken by pulling out the cable... Further conversation has no sense, you will simply pull out more of these made up arguments from your hat, whatever I say. Have a good one.

Ah I get it so anything I say that you don't like or doesn't align with your point of view is "imaginary" or "made up". I agree futher debate is pointless as you have already decided that all laptops should be as thin as possilbe, have no ports other than USB depspite providing no advanges to this other than "it might not be much worse" Any laptop that goes against what you specifically like should be actively criticised. If you don't realise how stupid and arragoant this is then there is no hope here.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 18:52:31I did and found many more results showing that a USB-C port is easily damaged than a ethernet port. Sorry if that reality annoys you.

You've missed the part about pulling the cable again, but okay, who cares.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 18:52:31laptops should be as thin as possilbe

Yup agreed.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 18:52:31depspite providing no advanges to this other than "it might not be much worse"

Made up.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 18:52:31Any laptop that goes against what you specifically like should be actively criticised

Made up.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 18:52:31If you don't realise how stupid and arragoant this is then there is no hope here.

Exactly.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 18:52:31Ah I get it so anything I say that you don't like or doesn't align with your point of view is "imaginary" or "made up".

Yeah, when I see "extra-dumb colleagues" losing, stealing, breaking "multiple times", when I see "tons of USB-C ports", I just call bs on obvious bs.

Uh, but some people really are stupid enough to break everything they see... When people at work handle devices that are not their own, they can be careless more easily.

Really wish Lenovo would offer non-OLED wide color gamut display options again. Not everyone wants PWM, lower battery life, and burn-in for 100% P3 or 100% Adobe rgb.

Wow I must say A your ability to make each of your replies to be even more stupid, arrogant and moronic than the last is impressive! So I will leave you in your little world where everything must revolve around you and no one else.

Quote from: DougF on December 28, 2023, 20:15:11Wow I must say A your ability to make each of your replies to be even more stupid, arrogant and moronic than the last is impressive! So I will leave you in your little world where everything must revolve around you and no one else.

Step 1. Lie
Step 2. Insult
<- You are here
Step 3. Reaffirm yourself by posting praises with different name

I see they've removed whether each display DC or PWM dimmable from the psref... Or just forgot to continue adding that information. Get it together Lenovo!

No reason we can't have a second x4 M.2 in this laptop! Give us the ability to - we can always mod it a bit, but some of us need a laptop with 2 NVMes. And so far no usable Thinkpads have 2. Some have a massive numpad and offset keyboard. Some only have Intel CPUs and NVIDIA GPUs, which don't work well on Linux. Every single laptop has a major downside to the point that it seems purposeful. I'm not going to buy a modern Intel-based thinkpad because the last one I got couldn't even run the CPU at 10% without the fans spinning - and couldn't run the CPU at 100% for more than a few seconds without throttling.

Don't give us 5+ displays. Give us 1 good IPS and 1 good OLED (60hz doesn't count as a decent OLED). There's no excuse, go call up LG or Samsung, you can find a decent display to give us.

And yes, the soldered memory is kind of a slap in the face. Either get the very fastest working and solder it because that is required. Or just step down to the slightly slower stuff that is not soldered. This isn't rocket science, and in fact, rocket science isn't even rocket science if you happen to be in the know and realize they're just shooting those rockets into the bermuda triangle - which is why there's still not a single uncut video going to "space" LOL!

QuoteThe T14s G4 is not the same laptop as the T14 G4

Thanks for the explanation.

QuoteGet a dock.

Other people prefer to spend the money in other stuff and want just a different setup.
Seems you are really intolerant to other person experiences.

Quote from: LL on December 29, 2023, 08:29:38Seems you are really intolerant to other person experiences.

Vice versa, I've stated my opinion and someone got offended with me not aligning to their snowflake universe.

QuoteI got offended with someone not aligning with my snowflake universe.

I've corrected that for you!
I'm not the one demanding that all laptops are made to my preferences and activally attacking anyone who has a different opinion by calling them liars when they dare to have a different use case to you. Go right ahead and buy one the thousands of ultra thin LAN port free laptops on the market. But don't try and force your preferences on the rest of the world.

Quote from: DougF on December 29, 2023, 18:40:08I'm not the one demanding that all laptops are made to my preferences

I _demand_ it only in your imagination.

Quote from: DougF on December 29, 2023, 18:40:08Go right ahead and buy one the thousands of ultra thin LAN port free laptops on the market.

I did.

Quote from: DougF on December 29, 2023, 18:40:08But don't try and force your preferences on the rest of the world.

Oh poor boy feeling forced just because someone disagreed with them on the Internet and can't even discuss anything like an adult without drama and made up stories.

Quote from: Neenyah on December 28, 2023, 15:03:07

Quote from: NikoB on December 28, 2023, 12:54:46

Quote from: toNiko on December 28, 2023, 10:18:15Installed memory is actually 7500MHz, but run at 6400MHz due to platform limitation.

Lenovo marketers, as usual, lie:
www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-7-7840u
Official support for 7500 has been announced.

As usual, another participant appears who is not in the subject of real hardware support.

Sleep wakeup problems of the SoC if the RAM runs at 7500. Not that you are aware of that, it's all a great conspiracy where Lenovo (and everyone else) is lying, lol.

Where do you have evidence that AMD is selling defective Zen4s, without exception?

There are already miniPCs and game consoles with Zen4 on Windows on the market, and nowhere is it written about the problems of waking up from sleep with the lpddr5 7500. Therefore, this is another post about a liar-bot.

Quote from: NikoB on December 30, 2023, 15:36:46

Quote from: Neenyah on December 28, 2023, 15:03:07

Quote from: NikoB on December 28, 2023, 12:54:46

Quote from: toNiko on December 28, 2023, 10:18:15Installed memory is actually 7500MHz, but run at 6400MHz due to platform limitation.

Lenovo marketers, as usual, lie:
www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-7-7840u
Official support for 7500 has been announced.

As usual, another participant appears who is not in the subject of real hardware support.

Sleep wakeup problems of the SoC if the RAM runs at 7500. Not that you are aware of that, it's all a great conspiracy where Lenovo (and everyone else) is lying, lol.

Where do you have evidence that AMD is selling defective Zen4s, without exception?

There are already miniPCs and game consoles with Zen4 on Windows on the market, and nowhere is it written about the problems of waking up from sleep with the lpddr5 7500. Therefore, this is another post about a liar-bot.

They are not defective (but your sad excuse of a brain is); per AMD's own PCB Design & Checklist guideline (https://www.xilinx.com/products/technology/signal-integrity/si-pcbcheck.html) the way to achieve 7500 speed is to use HDI technology in the PCB to minimise stub reflection. Quite literally no one is using that because it is very expensive; well, no one but handhelds (GPD and similar OEMs/manufacturers, for routing density - only handhelds).

Which is why we don't have a single existing laptop on the market with installed LPDDR5x 7500 that actually runs at 7500 instead of 6400. None. Zero. Running 7500 with through-hole PCBs will actually give 7500 speeds but also horrendous sleep wake up issues with every single laptop where they simply can't wake up from sleep at all without hard shutdown and almost all of them have LPDDR5x 7500 installed just like this T14 G4 here.

Quote from: Neenyah on December 30, 2023, 19:17:42the way to achieve 7500 speed is to use HDI technology in the PCB

And here comes on-die memory hehe.

Quote from: A on December 31, 2023, 12:41:37

Quote from: Neenyah on December 30, 2023, 19:17:42the way to achieve 7500 speed is to use HDI technology in the PCB

And here comes on-die memory hehe.

Pretty much as the cheapest solution now, yep.

I have been using this machine for over a month. Overall, it is a decent laptop, but I believe I received a faulty unit and I am considering returning it.

The main issue is a graphics glitch that occurs a few times a day, which looks exactly like the one shown on this video (watch?v=axPJNTE6lBw) (although the video is for the Gen3 model running Fedora, not Gen4 with Win 10 as in my case).

There are also occasional instances where a keystroke is not registered, indicating a potential issue with the keyboard.

There was also random switching between open windows, possibly a software problem.

Coming from a 2015 MacBook Pro, which was not perfect either, I am a bit disappointed with my purchase and I have doubts about the longevity of this machine.

Has anyone else encountered similar issues with this model or its predecessor? What would be your advice?

Recently, I purchased and returned a keyboard with two keys not registering every key stroke (and then purchased from another seller without the problem). Have no tolerance with such things - return the product immediately! Otherwise, you will regret it every day.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on January 02, 2024, 10:30:02return the product immediately! Otherwise, you will regret it every day.

Yeah, this here. It's under warranty, you will get a new unit. Duds happen everywhere with every OEM and the more units they make and ship the more issues is going to happen (not in %, just as total problematic units) simply because of numbers. Lenovo is great with ThinkPads about that matter so a new unit will arrive in no time.

I never make such purchases in online stores, only in local ones with quality checks right there on the spot.

For mice and keyboards, I carry a laptop with me so I can easily connect it and immediately check the operation. Laptops need to be checked carefully when purchased. And it is especially important to check the HDD.

If someone wants to play roulette with online stores, that's his problem.

It is better to spend time on an offline purchase with quality check at the time of purchase (if this is possible in your place of residence) than to deal with returns and waste your personal time. Most often, saving due to a lower price in online stores results in an attempt to sell you an opened package of goods (used/repackaged) or problems with warranty service later.

Thank you for your replies. I guess I will return it or try to exchange it.

This model is not available in offline stores where I live, so purchasing online is the only option. And I trust the seller.

NikoB, yours is a reasonable approach but, in the EU, online purchases involve the possibility of returns within 14 days so can also be a reasonable approach.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on January 03, 2024, 07:36:41NikoB, yours is a reasonable approach but, in the EU, online purchases involve the possibility of returns within 14 days so can also be a reasonable approach.

To add on to what Robert said, I think the best way to do it is wait until a product is widely available / in stock in local retail stores and then just order online to actually test it carefully. The reason for this is, companies that offer their products in local retail stores tend to be more confident about their products and have gone through more thorough stringent testing processes / less likely to have as many defects (relative to a product that's only sold online). Not to mention physical stores exist to make money too. They're not gonna keep a product in stock (or reorder more) that has terrible quality control / high defect rate and are more likely to check to inspect products before they even agree to place them in their stores to ensure they meet a minimum level of quality. Often times you can't really test a product properly in store and you're not always able to return items purchased from physical stores but are guarantied a legal right to return for any online purchase if within 14 days even without disclosing a reason. (at least this is how it is in UK)

Quote from: RobertJasiek on January 03, 2024, 07:36:41NikoB, yours is a reasonable approach but, in the EU, online purchases involve the possibility of returns within 14 days so can also be a reasonable approach.

In my country there is an absolute refund within 7 days. But this does not stop unscrupulous sellers from selling counterfeits and simply goods that do not correspond to the description - they can easily send a completely different model, knowing in advance that it will be returned to them. I don't know what they hope for, but these are the facts. Apparently they are complete idiot buyers, of whom (judging by the comments and reviews that are obvious fakes or obvious inconsistencies in the description of the product), the majority of the population. Alas, nothing can be done about this herd - just improve the general education of the population, but the powers that be in recent decades in all countries have clearly taken a course towards the opposite process - idiocracy, the maximum dullness of the population in all countries of the world. It's just easier to rule and it's easier to sell garbage...

I myself have encountered more than once, in online stores, on large marketplaces, that they send 100% fakes (with declarations of the original) or a complete discrepancy with the description. And that's why I try to buy offline, if possible. But the trends are negative.

Often wasted time is the most critical thing for a buyer. And there will be no compensation for this, and it is unlikely that anyone will go to court for relatively cheap goods in order to punish scoundrels and marketplace owners (who are most often directly connected with the powerful stratum and easily evade real, effective responsibility in most countries of the world).

There are a minority of people on the planet who think critically (and therefore "democracy", in practice, is demagoguery) and this minority is rapidly decreasing, this is sad, but no one can change this, especially through their own private efforts, except for the effect of a real global catastrophe , which will immediately sober up the surviving population at least for a while.

Quote from: Ideal Approach on January 03, 2024, 11:58:11They're not gonna keep a product in stock (or reorder more) that has terrible quality control / high defect rate and are more likely to check to inspect products before they even agree to place them in their stores to ensure they meet a minimum level of quality.

Your statement is true, provided there is sufficient competition in the offline segment in your place of residence. Most often this is not the case. So hoping for it doesn't work. How do offline stores win? The product is available faster (but not always) and it can be checked before payment (but not always) - otherwise there is no difference with online stores and there is no point in buying offline. On online marketplaces, small retailers and fly-by-night companies often trade, who, having sold a batch of low-quality goods to a bunch of naive fools (reviews are often simply faked), immediately disappear from the market, opening another store, with a different legal entity and name, without any liability for warranty obligations. In the Western world, consumers do not understand the problems of the Third World countries, where in 99% of cases, Western (or other) manufacturers simply do not open an official local representative office and, accordingly, evade direct legal responsibility for the goods they produce in the event of defects or outright forgery with them real characteristics.
Most often, this is possible in countries with maximum corruption and nepotism and/or where large distributors (importers) of foreign goods are not interested in foreign manufacturers trading directly and having official representative offices accredited by government agencies (direct legal requirements) - because then these large importers (whose owners most often sit in local legislative chambers) will be forced to curtail their activities and lose a lot of money. And they feed on this. Their interests directly contradict the interests of the majority of consumers - but who cares, in a country where the elections are fake, a priori?

Therefore, an ordinary buyer in such a country (and this is most countries in the world outside of "Western" countries) needs to choose a seller (and manufacturer) extremely carefully, assessing in advance the risks of warranty and post-warranty service. Otherwise, saving money when purchasing online may later turn into a complete fiasco with the product and a complete loss of money much earlier than he dreamed. Not to mention the wasted (often critical) time and a lot of wasted effort afterwards.

In this hellish mess of unscrupulous marketplaces and tens-hundreds of thousands of small sellers, it is easy for an ordinary person who does not have developed critical thinking (or is in life's time pressure) to make the wrong choice and lose money, at best, important time for something even more important. And the less trust in the authorities and the judicial system, the more consumer hell there is in practice.

To AA

Observed the same from time to time, maybe once or two times a day. Doesn't bother me at all.
It seems it stopped to happen when I disconnected USB-C Hub (HP USB-C Dock G4, the glitchy thing) and connected power and monitor directly to the laptop.

Quote from: AA on January 02, 2024, 10:09:26I have been using this machine for over a month. Overall, it is a decent laptop, but I believe I received a faulty unit and I am considering returning it.

The main issue is a graphics glitch that occurs a few times a day, which looks exactly like the one shown on this video (watch?v=axPJNTE6lBw) (although the video is for the Gen3 model running Fedora, not Gen4 with Win 10 as in my case).

There are also occasional instances where a keystroke is not registered, indicating a potential issue with the keyboard.

There was also random switching between open windows, possibly a software problem.

Coming from a 2015 MacBook Pro, which was not perfect either, I am a bit disappointed with my purchase and I have doubts about the longevity of this machine.

Has anyone else encountered similar issues with this model or its predecessor? What would be your advice?

Replied above

Thanks for sharing your experience, Maksym.

I use a bluetooth mouse, so maybe the presence of a USB dongle leads to this glitch. I'll try to disconnect it and see how it goes.

Besides, I've observed another problem: wireless networks are not discoverable after wake up from sleep. The only solution is a reboot.

While calling the LPDDR5x-6400 memory quad-channel is technically correct (the best kind of correct), I think it is also highly misleading, and inconsistent with other reviews, which usually refer to the 4x32-bit channel configuration on DDR5 as dual-channel.

Especially when I saw the combination of Ryzen 7 PRO 7840U and quad-channel memory, I became really excited, because I thought that the PRO means a workstation CPU variant that supports "real quad channel memory". But both the specs on AMD website and the hwinfo screenshots make it clear that this is not the case and the laptop only has a standard "consumer" 128-bit memory bus.

It would be nice to standardize the terminology throughout the site, so that these "fake quad channel" laptops do not stand out in comparison tables for no reason. Or even better, use bandwidth in GB/s instead of the ambiguous channel count. In this case it would be 6.4 * (128 / 8) = 102.4 GB/s (and not 204.8 GB/s, as I thought before becoming extremely disappointed).

Quote from: H:S on January 20, 2024, 00:33:42Or even better, use bandwidth in GB/s instead of the ambiguous channel count. In this case it would be 6.4 * (128 / 8) = 102.4 GB/s (and not 204.8 GB/s, as I thought before becoming extremely disappointed).

I mean, as per AMD's own specs, the R7 PRO 7840U has a maximum memory bandwidth of 120.0 GB/s (with 7500). So with 6400 it can only be slower (as you said, 102.4 GB/s).

In the case of dual-channel mode, it is enough to multiply the effective frequency by 16 to get the memory bandwidth.

And in the case of all AMD chips, the memory controller has terrible efficiency compared to Intel chips, but even those don't even come close to being efficient above 90% of theoretical throughput.

The real efficiency of Apple mem controllers turned out to be even more shameful in practice - only 30-40% of the theoretical one stated in the datasheets.

The last week my T14 BSOD'ed twice during normal operation. I decided to return it to the seller for a refund. I'm looking for suggestions for alternatives.

So far, my top choice would be a MacBook Air M2 13" or 15" with at least 16 GBs of RAM. Yes, it's more expensive, but at least I can expect it to work out of the box for a long period of time.

But I also consider other AMD and Intel laptops, especially those offered with a student discount in Germany. What are the best alternatives?

Quote from: AA on January 22, 2024, 23:21:43The last week my T14 BSOD'ed twice during normal operation. I decided to return it to the seller for a refund. I'm looking for suggestions for alternatives.

So far, my top choice would be a MacBook Air M2 13" or 15" with at least 16 GBs of RAM. Yes, it's more expensive, but at least I can expect it to work out of the box for a long period of time.

• m2 macbook air shutting down without warning (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254387635?sortBy=best) (discussions.apple.com)
• Macbook Air M2 random Crashing! possible work around. (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254222090?sortBy=best) (discussions.apple.com)
• Unexpected restart of MacBook Air M2 (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255357106?sortBy=best) (discussions.apple.com)
• MacBook Air M2 2022 randomly rebooting (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255325633?sortBy=best) (discussions.apple.com)
• M2 Macbook Air crashing unexpectedly (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254751483?sortBy=best) (discussions.apple.com)
• ...plus about 80 more posts about M2 Air random reboots/shutdowns just on apple.com.

Good luck, I guess 😳

Quote from: AA on January 22, 2024, 23:21:43But I also consider other AMD and Intel laptops, especially those offered with a student discount in Germany. What are the best alternatives?

T14s AMD.

Thank you for bringing this issue to my attention. I see that the M2 Air isn't perfect either. But in my experience, commonly reported MacBook problems have rarely correlated with the frequency of errors I have had with my MacBook. So I don't think I'm likely to run into the random restart problem if I buy the new Air. And I know - more or less - what other problems MacBooks are likely to have. None of them are worse than having your laptop randomly restart while you are working.

As a side note, my Thinkpad X120e from 2011 was a reliable workhorse, and it BSOD'ed only once or twice in the 5 or 6 years I used it. So I don't have a negative bias against ThinkPads, only a positive one.

Could you explain why do you think the T14s will be more reliable? As far as I know, it is very similar to the T14. Can you recommend models from other manufacturers (that of course do not have the random restart problem)?

I understand your points and they are valid. You can always try to find if the BSOD-related issue is coming from faulty hardware or from some weird software glitch like bad driver though. I'm almost positive that it's related to your Windows installation as pure hardware defects and failures are really rare these days with business lines of all OEMs. The T14 is certainly a pretty damn fine device but that doesn't mean it's perfect. That being said there really is no problem-free machine anywhere in existence but it's not like all of them are problematic; some duds will always happen with every OEM and that's what my intention was to show about the M2 Air above. It's a great machine but you can find any single problem with it, you name it, yet it's unlikely to experience the same on your end.

Quote from: AA on January 23, 2024, 00:05:31Could you explain why do you think the T14s will be more reliable? As far as I know, it is very similar to the T14. Can you recommend models from other manufacturers (that of course do not have the random restart problem)?

The T14s is as close to the X1 Carbon as it gets - without being the X1 Carbon (and carrying X1 Carbon's price tag with that). It's a more refined and perfected T14 with some downsides when compared with the non-s variant but also with much more pros, significantly better build quality being one of them. So you can expect a better overall quality there.

I am not sure what your exact budget is (because of German student discounts) but one solid non-ThinkPad option would certainly be something like the EliteBook 1040 G10 (https://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-EliteBook-1040-G10-laptop-review-HP-s-response-to-the-ThinkPad-X1-Carbon.747812.0.html) or also the EliteBook 845 G10 (https://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-EliteBook-845-G10-review-Business-laptop-impresses-with-AMD-Ryzen-7-7840U-and-unbeatable-price.754141.0.html) (there is also more powerful model (https://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-EliteBook-845-G10-review-The-almost-perfect-business-laptop-with-AMD-Zen4.741264.0.html)), both from HP, both really good devices with not many cons.

Lenovo's entire T business series is a priori not designed for long-term heavy loads. Only moderate surfing and similar tasks.

They are not at all reliable in the long term, with fairly intensive use.

It makes sense to take them only if there is a 3-year warranty and use them as much as possible during this period, i.e. they should easily pay for themselves within 3 years.

Quote from: NikoB on January 23, 2024, 11:25:26Lenovo's entire T business series is a priori not designed for long-term heavy loads. Only moderate surfing and similar tasks.

🤣

Quote from: NikoB on January 23, 2024, 11:25:26They are not at all reliable in the long term, with fairly intensive use.

😂

Quote from: NikoB on January 23, 2024, 11:25:26It makes sense to take them only if there is a 3-year warranty...

Quite literally every single ThinkPad, apart from the E-series models, has a base warranty of 36 months. Every.

Quote from: Neenyah on January 23, 2024, 14:46:17Quite literally every single ThinkPad, apart from the E-series models, has a base warranty of 36 months. Every.

In which country? In Germany, I have needed less than one minute to find different ThinkPads (other than E) at Lenovo's webpage with 1 or 3 years warranty. Manufacturers and retailers calculate differently because there are also German and EU laws with alternatives to warranties.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on January 23, 2024, 15:30:44

Quote from: Neenyah on January 23, 2024, 14:46:17Quite literally every single ThinkPad, apart from the E-series models, has a base warranty of 36 months. Every.

In which country? In Germany, I have needed less than one minute to find different ThinkPads (other than E) at Lenovo's webpage with 1 or 3 years warranty.

I went to check all current models (sans E) but it would be toooo many screenshots to post so I'll post only for this T14 G4 AMD because it's a topic about it; here is its PSREF (https://psref.lenovo.com/Product/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_T14_Gen_4_AMD).

Filtered for nothing but German market (https://imgur.com/oRc2sCm), so models sold in Germany.

Every single of 264 possible options (bottom right, "Loaded 30 rows of total 264 rows") has a base warranty of 3 years, so 36 months (https://imgur.com/6ioFulK), there is no option to choose with less than that (but you can add additional years on top of it up to 6 years total).

I also checked Computerunivese.net, so German store, and out of all 148 new models (there are some refurbs too) 90+ of them are listed with 3 years base, again sans the E series and some L series because I'm not interested in them (all L models have pretty L screens, sadly, and when you spec them up with a really good screen they become more expensive than much better T series). Perhaps the other up to 148 too but I was checking only those with Windows licence (so Windows installed).

German Lenovo has /de/ in its URL.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on January 23, 2024, 17:21:51German Lenovo has /de/ in its URL.

Yes, PSREF is the same for all markets, short for Product Specifications Reference. There is no https://psref.lenovo.com/de/de/ (https://psref.lenovo.com/de/de/) ("404Page Not found") but there is https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/ (https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/).

PSREF shows detailed specs (and other useful info such as HMM - Hardware Maintenance Manual) for every existing ThinkPad irrelevant of its region/country; it can be sold in Argentina and you will still find it there, just search for it specifically. Lenovo is giving 3 years base warranty to the T14 G4 AMD (and every other existing T14 including those from earlier years, with AMD or Intel), not seller.

-

Edit: I just checked https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/ (https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/) in detail, and then filtered only for ThinkPads, all but E and L series (https://imgur.com/feNwSZw).

Checked literally every existing model and Garantie : 3 Jahre (https://imgur.com/hm2jVzW) says for every one of them but those special models or returned/unboxed ones (6 of them in total, out of 25 in the whole offer).

So apparently different views of Lenovo's page(s) show different warranty periods! (Why am I not surprised?)

Quote from: Neenyah on January 23, 2024, 00:59:38both from HP, both really good devices with not many cons.

Thanks for these suggestions!

Regarding the cause behind BSODs, I could not figure it out as crash dumps were not created for some reason.

Quote from: Neenyah on January 23, 2024, 14:46:17Quite literally every single ThinkPad, apart from the E-series models, has a base warranty of 36 months. Every.

The bot is lying again.

notebookcheck.com/Lenovo-ThinkPad-P16s-G2-AMD-im-Test-Leistung-satt-plus-OLED-im-Workstation-Laptop.787613.0.html

QuoteLenovo bietet ein Jahr Premium-Support, worunter auch Vor-Ort-Reparatur bis zum nächsten Werktag fallen. Eine Erweiterung dieser Garantie gegen Gebühr ist ebenfalls möglich.

Quote from: NikoB on January 24, 2024, 11:11:20

Quote from: Neenyah on January 23, 2024, 14:46:17Quite literally every single ThinkPad, apart from the E-series models, has a base warranty of 36 months. Every.

The bot is lying again.

notebookcheck.com/Lenovo-ThinkPad-P16s-G2-AMD-im-Test-Leistung-satt-plus-OLED-im-Workstation-Laptop.787613.0.html

QuoteLenovo bietet ein Jahr Premium-Support, worunter auch Vor-Ort-Reparatur bis zum nächsten Werktag fallen. Eine Erweiterung dieser Garantie gegen Gebühr ist ebenfalls möglich.

Part number of that machine is 21K9000CGE.

There you go, that identical and particular model on PSREF - it is THAT laptop and no other: https://psref.lenovo.com/Detail/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_P16s_Gen_2_AMD?M=21K9000CGE (https://psref.lenovo.com/Detail/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_P16s_Gen_2_AMD?M=21K9000CGE)

Now check this part: "Base Warranty 3-year, Courier or Carry-in"

Here, screenshot in case you can't find it on PSREF (https://imgur.com/yL5ggXP) which wouldn't be surprising considering that you are a literal retard who can't even differentiate BASE warranty from PREMIUM support; it is, again literally, said there on the PSREF link right below the base warranty row:

"Included Upgrade CO2 Offset 0.5 ton, 1Y Premier Support from 3Y Depot Windchill bundles   (CPN)"

So that is a bonus ON TOP OF EXISTING 3-YEAR WARRANTY, you braindead delusional donkey.

In many countries around the world where there is no official Lenovo representative office against which consumers can file claims under local consumer protection laws and civil codes, the actual warranty is exactly the one stated by the seller.

As the author wrote, in Germany the warranty is 1 year and no 3 years in terms of local legislation. Otherwise, why would he report a 1-year warranty, instead of supposedly from Lenovo, if Lenovo fully complies with the requirements of local legislation under the consumer protection law

This is of course difficult for a local couple of clowns to understand, because they are poorly educated...

Quote from: NikoB on January 24, 2024, 14:23:32As the author wrote, in Germany the warranty is 1 year and no 3 years in terms of local legislation. Otherwise, why would he report a 1-year warranty, instead of supposedly from Lenovo, if Lenovo fully complies with the requirements of local legislation under the consumer protection law

This is of course difficult for a local couple of clowns to understand, because they are poorly educated...

You really are a retard of an impressive calibre, hands down that takes some serious effort to achieve. The point is that you can't have a Premier Support (of 1-year here) without base warranty which is 3-year. This is what Premier Support is:

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9Gebvudae0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9Gebvudae0)
• https://www.lenovo.com/content/dam/lenovo/pcsd/north-america/en/solutions/services/presentations/battle-cards/lenovo-services-premier-support-faq.pdf (https://www.lenovo.com/content/dam/lenovo/pcsd/north-america/en/solutions/services/presentations/battle-cards/lenovo-services-premier-support-faq.pdf)

Oddly enough you know better about Lenovo than Lenovo does, all while being hidden in your Russian shithole behind a 15-year old MSI laptop, no wonder you can't open a link and check it yourself. There, arrows this time to try to help you but there is no help for permanently dysfunctional brain of yours:

https://imgur.com/XukC3dq (https://imgur.com/XukC3dq)

And Lenovo site:

https://psref.lenovo.com/Detail/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_P16s_Gen_2_AMD?M=21K9000CGE (https://psref.lenovo.com/Detail/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_P16s_Gen_2_AMD?M=21K9000CGE)

-

Edit:

I went to check the whole Europe for the P16s G2 (AMD) and there is nothing less but a 3-year base warranty (https://imgur.com/P5rJKOU).

Included upgrade options of Premier Support are either 1-year or 3-year (or none at all) (https://imgur.com/llfphS3).

Neenyah, I feel for your mental health. After all, you are unable to understand the difference between a manufacturer's warranty and a warranty under local law.

Germany, sample notebook below:


There is only 1 year warranty included!


For more years, or for extra services during the first and following years, additional fees have to be selected and paid for longer and / or extended warranty.


www.lenovo.com/de/de/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadl/thinkpad-l14-gen-4-(14-inch-amd)/21h5cto1wwde1

"Garantie 1 Jahr Premier"

Configuring this notebook for purchase:

www.lenovo.com/de/de/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21H5CTO1WWDE1

"Upgrade von 1 Jahr Kurierabholung/Einsendung durch Kunden auf 1 Jahr Premier Support – TP Main ECOMMS (CPN)"

"Garantie
1 Optionen
1 Jahr Kurierabholung oder Einsendung durch den Kunden
Enthalten"

Next step selection of services:

www.lenovo.com/de/de/pb/index.html?mainCode=21H5CTO1WWDE1&isConfiguration=1&guid=2baad68f-1d27-4639-b21e-a28eb2c24d6e#step=1

"Upgrade von 1 Jahr Kurierabholung/Einsendung durch Kunden auf 1 Jahr Premier Support – TP Main ECOMMS (CPN)"

"Unsere Standardgarantie deckt die Inbetriebnahme, technische Fehler sowie Probleme beim normalen Gebrauch ab, die während der Garantielaufzeit auftreten können."


"Lenovo Premier Support
[...]

1 Jahr  [included]

2 Jahre +€153,27

3 Jahre +€263,24

4 Jahre +€294,88

5 Jahre +€410,68


Premier Support Plus
[...]

1 Jahr +€76,65

2 Jahre +€183,26

3 Jahre +€265,74

4 Jahre +€420,32

5 Jahre +€532,43


Erweitern Sie Ihren Hardware-Schutz durch den Kauf zusätzlicher Services - Ein Jahr Depot-Garantie

Smart Lock [...]

1 Jahr +€22,42

3 Jahre +€52,49

4 Jahre +€67,47

Smart Performance  [...]

1 Jahr +€46,71

2 Jahre +€70,85

3 Jahre +€93,43

4 Jahre +€117,53
"

Quote from: RobertJasiek on January 24, 2024, 17:43:02Germany, sample notebook below:

There is only 1 year warranty included!

Yes, but that's a CTO model and it's also from an L-series where 1-year base (Premier and base is not the same thing, Premier is an upgrade like Apple Care is an upgrade over their base warranty) is not unusual to find, same as with E-series where almost all (or even all of them) have 1-year base.

There is no existing T, Ps, X, X1, P1, Z, or P-series ThinkPad new and unboxed with less than 3-year base MANUFACTURER warranty in the EU. None. But you can add a Premier Support of 1-year or more on top of that base warranty, meaning that if you get one with 3-year base + 1-year Premier you will have 36 months total warranty but during the first 12 months you will have all benefits of the Premier Support. (https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/premier-support/)

A manufacturer's warranty is bullshit if it is not fulfilled within the framework of the requirements of local consumer legislation, trade rules and civil code.