NotebookCHECK - Notebook Forum

Notebookcheck might update by years end Blender GPU test to Blender 4.0  that way all Metal improvements done appear. Same for PC's.

Blender 3.3 is already legacy so not really representative.

Pretty ok screen. It would be good without being a literal mirror (lol: https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/2/f/csm_IMG_1107_34eb8af434.jpg ) and without being so slow (69 ms G2G is hilariously high and it must lead to nice ghosting 👻).

But that's Apple and their obsession with glossy screens without being touchscreens, plus they are yet to learn about the existence of matte panels; they will invent them one day and MacBooks will be the very first laptops in the history of the personal computer to have one to make them even more capable ( Clip from their September 2023 event: https://imgur.com/N89ADLd ).

Excellent battery life and the touchpad as usually with MBs, there is hardly any contest there especially with the latter.

Underwhelming pretty much everything else for that price of 2459€, lol. Maintenance... what maintenance? 💩 1 year warranty as always. The part from the review about the keyboard is probably a joke but I will still take the bait and reply to it:

QuoteThe MacBook is still superior to Windows laptops in terms of keyboard illumination, even after all these years. The brightness can be adjusted very precisely and both the automatic activation as well as intensity based on the ambient lighting work perfectly.

So can literally every single existing gaming laptop in that price range plus a hell lot of those cheaper ones. Ok, ok, those are gaming laptops... The XPS from 2020 lets you change the dimming to auto, always on, or always off AND it has precise adjustments too. Same with many other non-gaming laptops although Apple was the first there (in non-gaming world) to bring that to their laptops, I wont take that credit away. Also good luck with this and their keyboards, lol:

• https://medium.com/macoclock/what-i-hate-about-my-macbook-pro-after-a-year-2f4da6cc15a4
• https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253705285
• https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254925851
• https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252263446
• https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/hoxdjp/macbook_pro_16_keys_wearing_smooth_ive_had_this/?rdt=34335
• https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/upq8fe/does_the_m1_macbook_keyboard_really_get_shiny/
• https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/qscfg7/why_thats_happening_for_my_6_months_mac_space_bar/

I can keep posting hundreds more identical issues from 2020 onwards, because Apple is cheapening out by intentionally using the lowest quality possible ABS plastic for their keyboards so they turn to that glossy ugly mess after weeks of usage. Cheapest Acers on the market wont get shiny keys THAT fast.

M3 is meh. Ryzen 7s and i7s are running circles around it as nicely demonstrated in benchmarks here. But, but - THE EFFICIENCY! Sure, Apple's marketing speak for "We are weak but don't want to admit it.", yeah.

M3's GPU, whoooo, 2-4x slower than a much cheaper laptop with 13th gen i7H + 4050, tremendous success there, well done Apple 👏

Noise level is low, sure, but is it worth it 2459€? For that price I would rather get a good pair of ANC headphones if a cheaper and faster laptop turns out to be MUCH louder.

1459€ and it would be a solid buy, this here - nah.

How can the verdict be "The new base MacBook Pro 14 M3 is a downgrade" but then you give it the notebookcheck top-rated award?

And to further demonstrate my confusion here, let me qoute your assessment... "However, you just notice that Apple cut the cost in some areas and the old entry-level MacBook Pro 14 with the M2 Pro simply had a much better price-performance ratio. If you are interested in the entry-level version, you should get the old M2 Pro unit as long as it is still available. The only use case for the MBP 14 M3 would be if you basically just need MacBook Air performance, but you want a better screen (HDR and 120 Hz)"

So is Apple automatically top-rated just because it's apple???

I get there are many benefits to owning an apple, great battery life, build, etc. but if your advocating getting the older model, then I don't see how you can give this newer model a top-rated award.

" flickering on mini-LED screens is not comparable with typical PWM flickering"


can someone explain why the flickering on mini-LED screens is different and would not cause eye strain?

How M3 is more efficient? M3 idle average 12W vs M2 6W (in MBP 13). Minimum idle 2.2W vs 1.6W. M3 is 15 hours on WiFi test with 70kWh battery vs M2 is 17 hours with 58kWh.

Waiting for a more detailed article about SoC.

Quote from: Bizarro_NikoB on November 06, 2023, 18:26:15So is Apple automatically top-rated just because it's apple???

Yes.

Quote from: Neenyah on November 06, 2023, 17:48:40...
Underwhelming pretty much everything else for that price of 2459€
...
1459€ and it would be a solid buy, this here - nah.
...

The market is pretty trash tho. Apple can get away with far worse because their intended audience doesn't care (about all the other points you mentioned) or are tied/locked into their ecosystem. So even though I agree with your post, feels a bit like talking to a brick wall / pointless.

Are there any laptop(s) worth buying in 2023 in your opinion? Was looking at flow x13 (2023 - RTX 4060 version), but it's like 2000€ for 8 GB of Vram :( for just a little more can g14 RTX 4080 with 12 gb vram, but it's not as lightweight/portable.

There's nothing really decent in the 1400€ price range for laptops. Maybe it's best to get one of these Z1 Extreme handhelds for now (hookup external monitor/keyboard/mouse - to use as a laptop) and cope with that setup until Strix Halo arrives.

At this price point even 16GB of memory is simply outrageous and a joke. For a Macbook Pro 16GB and 1TB should be the entry level at $1599 as well as 3 usb-c/tb4 ports
$1999 should get you 64GB and 2TB and 4 usb-c/tb4 ports and a num keypad

Quote from: Bizarro_NikoB on November 06, 2023, 18:26:15How can the verdict be "The new base MacBook Pro 14 M3 is a downgrade" but then you give it the notebookcheck top-rated award?

And to further demonstrate my confusion here, let me qoute your assessment... "However, you just notice that Apple cut the cost in some areas and the old entry-level MacBook Pro 14 with the M2 Pro simply had a much better price-performance ratio. If you are interested in the entry-level version, you should get the old M2 Pro unit as long as it is still available. The only use case for the MBP 14 M3 would be if you basically just need MacBook Air performance, but you want a better screen (HDR and 120 Hz)"

So is Apple automatically top-rated just because it's apple???

I get there are many benefits to owning an apple, great battery life, build, etc. but if your advocating getting the older model, then I don't see how you can give this newer model a top-rated award.

A second hand M2 Pro or even M2 Max based MBP would make a lot more sense and save you a fortune. It was the same when comparing M2 based MB's to M1 based ones. There was no possible way to justify the price premium for the M2 option at the time and this is exactly why their sales have tanked massively and the M3 will continue that trend. So rational person would upgrade an M2 based MBP to M3 IMO.

Quote from: Mr Majestyk on November 07, 2023, 01:54:22So rational person would upgrade an M2 based MBP to M3 IMO.

I think you have made a typo: So -> No

Quote from: paviko on November 06, 2023, 18:46:07How M3 is more efficient? M3 idle average 12W vs M2 6W (in MBP 13). Minimum idle 2.2W vs 1.6W. M3 is 15 hours on WiFi test with 70kWh battery vs M2 is 17 hours with 58kWh.

Waiting for a more detailed article about SoC.

The difference in duration between normal "WiFi Websurfing" and "WiFi Websurfing max Brightness" shows a difference in power consumption of 7W between the two.

High-performance LCD panels consume a lot of power, and Apple products have achieved long battery life by focusing only on color reproduction and eliminating power-hungry features such as brightness and response time. The LCD panel is a good example of this. For example, most Apple monitors have response times of 20-40 ms and cannot display even 60 Hz correctly (while most Windows laptops have response times of 2⁓10 ms).

This model uses a very bright monitor, 631 cd/m². In the past, the MacBook Pro 14 2021 (M1 Pro, 120 Hz LCD) also had a battery life of only 6 hours when set to maximum brightness like this product.

I was going to buy one of these, but then my car insurance just increased by $200 for no reason, after my rent increased by $250 because my landlord is greedy, and my health insurance increased by $100 per month with no new value, but my wages are actually decreasing.

So, Apple may hope to make a sale, but the bloodsuckers are taking all my money.

Quote from: kujo on November 08, 2023, 06:05:04So, Apple may hope to make a sale, but the bloodsuckers are taking all my money.

Congratulations on your grim achievement - you've dropped out of the middle class and you're no longer interested as a customer for companies like Apple. Nothing personal, this is business...

Quote from: Neenyah on November 06, 2023, 17:48:40But that's Apple and their obsession with glossy screens without being touchscreens, plus they are yet to learn about the existence of matte panels; they will invent them one day and MacBooks will be the very first laptops in the history of the personal computer to have one to make them even more capable

Actually, they used to offer matte displays as an option. At least on Pro, not sure about Air. They had silver bezels instead of glossy black. They brought them out about two years after switching to glass, relenting to complaints from some people.

69 and 75 ms pixel response times? HOLY SMOKES. I wish I knew this before I ordered the machine. Now I'm waiting for it to arrive yet I'm really concerned. Goddamn, Apple.

Quote from: Yiğit on December 20, 2023, 22:00:5569 and 75 ms pixel response times? HOLY SMOKES. I wish I knew this before I ordered the machine. Now I'm waiting for it to arrive yet I'm really concerned. Goddamn, Apple.

You will probably not even notice if your second display is not OLED. I didn't, lol, maybe I'm kinda used to some extent of blur when scrolling or "not sensitive" as they say now, idk. So don't overthink it.

Quote from: A on December 20, 2023, 22:26:56

Quote from: Yiğit on December 20, 2023, 22:00:5569 and 75 ms pixel response times? HOLY SMOKES. I wish I knew this before I ordered the machine. Now I'm waiting for it to arrive yet I'm really concerned. Goddamn, Apple.

You will probably not even notice if your second display is not OLED. I didn't, lol, maybe I'm kinda used to some extent of blur when scrolling or "not sensitive" as they say now, idk. So don't overthink it.

I'm using an S21 at 120hz, and it has only a few milliseconds of pixel response times. If a phone screen counts.

With that said tho, it's relieving to hear from someone that it's not noticable. Other than that issue, this machine has everything I can ask for, especially since I configured it with 16 GB RAM.

Quote from: Yiğit on December 21, 2023, 10:24:34

Quote from: A on December 20, 2023, 22:26:56

Quote from: Yiğit on December 20, 2023, 22:00:5569 and 75 ms pixel response times? HOLY SMOKES. I wish I knew this before I ordered the machine. Now I'm waiting for it to arrive yet I'm really concerned. Goddamn, Apple.

You will probably not even notice if your second display is not OLED. I didn't, lol, maybe I'm kinda used to some extent of blur when scrolling or "not sensitive" as they say now, idk. So don't overthink it.

I'm using an S21 at 120hz, and it has only a few milliseconds of pixel response times. If a phone screen counts.

With that said tho, it's relieving to hear from someone that it's not noticable. Other than that issue, this machine has everything I can ask for, especially since I configured it with 16 GB RAM.

This stupid troll "А" is lying as usual. This is very noticeable when scrolling text in the browser and is extremely unpleasant on the eyes. All the text turns into mush over time, as do the graphics. I see to IPS on a laptop with a 35-40ms response time and monitor with SPVA with 7ms response time. The difference is colossal to the eye.

Quote from: NikoB on December 21, 2023, 13:23:41This is very noticeable when scrolling text in the browser and is extremely unpleasant on the eyes. All the text turns into mush over time, as do the graphics. I see to IPS on a laptop with a 35-40ms response time and monitor with SPVA with 7ms response time. The difference is colossal to the eye.

Just to add some "user context", this is coming from a local clown who has never used or owned M macbook.

Guy is dailying laptop with IPS 60% sRGB coverage for the last 5 years, you can literally feel his envy, he is sh*tting in every Apple discussion.

As usual, idiot A gets into the topic to insult and indiscriminately discredit anyone who does not conform to the opinion of his employer.

The dog barks, the caravan moves on....the smart ones understand everything.

Quote from: NikoB on December 21, 2023, 18:39:36As usual, idiot A gets into the topic to insult and indiscriminately discredit anyone who does not conform to the opinion of his employer.
The dog barks, the caravan moves on....the smart ones understand everything.

You finished, clown? You you will be projecting your hate and envy for a week now, angrily typing on your 250nits laptop?

So, to bring clarity to the topic after 1 week of receiving and using the device:

Yes, the bad pixel response times are NOTICABLE. Especially if you have dark mode turned on and switching between spaces, the ghosting sometimes feels awful. For just scrolling text, it seems fine, but it's nowhere as close to what scrolling text on a 120 Hz OLED phone feels like.

I wish I never was aware of this thing beforehand as an overthinker because now I can't unnotice it in many occasions.

And I especially wonder who tf at Apple thought this is OK because it's clearly not for such an expensive device. This is literally the ONLY complaint I have against this machine and because it, as I've said in my previous comments, gives me almost EVERYTHING what I can ask for in a laptop.

Quote from: Yiğit on December 30, 2023, 19:14:36Yes, the bad pixel response times are NOTICABLE. Especially if you have dark mode turned on and switching between spaces, the ghosting sometimes feels awful. For just scrolling text, it seems fine, but it's nowhere as close to what scrolling text on a 120 Hz OLED phone feels like.

I wish I never was aware of this thing beforehand as an overthinker because now I can't unnotice it in many occasions.

Well of course it is noticeable - 69 ms grey to grey is effective 14.49 frames per second and 75.2 ms black to white is 13.29 fps. Like a very fast slideshow, unfortunately. What you want is, ideally, 16.6 ms or faster, but 25 ms and faster is also very good and unnoticeable except in very fast gaming. 69 and 75 ms is just extreme.

Quote from: Yiğit on December 30, 2023, 19:14:36I wish I never was aware of this thing beforehand as an overthinker because now I can't unnotice it in many occasions.

Yeah that's the important thing.

Quote from: Neenyah on December 30, 2023, 19:28:37Like a very fast slideshow, unfortunately.

It's motion blur, not slideshow. Because it's kinda fading out, not immediately switching.

youtu.be/p2xo-hDCgZE?t=876

Quote from: A on December 30, 2023, 19:53:07

Quote from: Neenyah on December 30, 2023, 19:28:37Like a very fast slideshow, unfortunately.

It's motion blur, not slideshow. Because it's kinda fading out, not immediately switching.

youtu.be/p2xo-hDCgZE?t=876

Yes I know but everything at screens at all panels (except e-ink) is being rendered in frames per second, all content. I sold my M1 Air in basically mint shape (still miss it tbh) just because that ghosting was unacceptably bad 😔 And Apple for some reason can't put a faster panel in their MacBooks. Meh...

Quote from: Neenyah on December 30, 2023, 19:59:11I sold my M1 Air in basically mint shape (still miss it tbh) just because that ghosting was unacceptably bad

Probably I'm blind, looking at both MBP and Air screens right now and it's okay on both. Yeah it's blurry a bit, but I just never focus on the screen when scrolling or I'm used to blurry screens, idk.

Reddit is also like 50/50

Quote from: A on December 30, 2023, 20:13:14Yeah it's blurry a bit, but I just never focus on the screen when scrolling or I'm used to blurry screens, idk.

Yep, this is the key. If you know there'll be ghosting while scrolling content and focus on the screen more while scrolling in order to notice it, you notice it more. Which is what happens to me most of the time. Ignorance is indeed bliss sometimes. That doesn't change the fact that Apple should've put a faster display to this device though, but still...

Quote from: Yiğit on December 30, 2023, 21:39:24That doesn't change the fact that Apple should've put a faster display

Probably it's related to massive amount of backlight LEDs, who knows.