NotebookCHECK - Notebook Forum

Could you qualify this statement about "bugs" on Linux? I don't think it's true.
ChromeOS is based on Linux, so these could be Chromebooks, probably including virtualization support,

@davidm

With Pop, I couldn't get past the installation screen. The damn thing would give me this "installation failed" message right after partitioning the drive and unpacking its files. Nobara wouldn't even boot off my pen drive. Deepin worked only to prove itself to be choke full of bugs less than an hour later, from the browser to the audio player.

That was it for me and I do not think I am the only one.

I have MacBook Air with M1 and to me its absolutely fine ... if you don't like MacBook M1 air you can buy a 150$ windows laptop and instal windows 10

Quote from: dimadamage on July 17, 2023, 20:34:11I have MacBook Air with M1 and to me its absolutely fine ... if you don't like MacBook M1 air you can buy a 150$ windows laptop and instal windows 10

Why wouldn't it be fine? Is it 2026 yet?

Quote from: Swizzy on July 17, 2023, 21:16:54

Quote from: dimadamage on July 17, 2023, 20:34:11I have MacBook Air with M1 and to me its absolutely fine ... if you don't like MacBook M1 air you can buy a 150$ windows laptop and instal windows 10

Why wouldn't it be fine? Is it 2026 yet?

if you want to use laptop from 2006 in 2026 ... good luck! use windows 10 until 2076!

I can't believe this article is still not deleted... some person advice to buy a old windows laptop because it can run windows 10 ...please ban me...I can't watch this... buy a ZTE laptop on gaunzhou CPU and play Mao dze dun OS 10

First lets see if the site will let me post....

Ahhh... the silly and rather stupid 'constant upgrade' syndrome. The notion that the hardware becomes useless because of lack of 'support' for the software that runs on it.

If we attempt to put computer buyers into two distinct groups there is the 'application specific' group and the 'anything and everything' group.

For both groups of buyers it is assumed that the hardware AND software that they installed on the computer does EVERYTHING that they require of it. Make sense?

Then comes the notion of 'security' along with the assumption that ALL computers are attached DIRECTLY TO THE INTERNET 24/7/365 (which surely is not the case at all) and it is because of this 'constant threat' that Operating System vendors as well as Software vendors are constantly patching holes in their OS and software offerings.

The STARK TRUTH is that for %80-95 of applications and uses for a computer don't involve being hooked up to a 'network' much less anything called the 'internet' and as such all the evolving 'threats' simply don't exist for those users and the applications that they are using!

Forgetting for the moment that for much of the world are living in the 'broadband age' which would place any computer device with a RJ45 jack or WIFI driver behind a HARDWARE FIREWALL only the devices and applications that require or use 'internet services' would need to be constantly updated.

Proudly typed on a 2013 era Mac with 2016 era OS but with 2013 era browser. :)

Quote from: 2002 on July 17, 2023, 20:03:56@davidm

With Pop, I couldn't get past the installation screen. The damn thing would give me this "installation failed" message right after partitioning the drive and unpacking its files. Nobara wouldn't even boot off my pen drive. Deepin worked only to prove itself to be choke full of bugs less than an hour later, from the browser to the audio player.

That was it for me and I do not think I am the only one.

Sorry you had that experience, but even though you are not the only one it's far from majority. Most people install Linux just fine. And if it was "full of bugs" you'd see those bugs every day since that's what's basically running the Internet.

What a stupid clickbait article. "Set to age faster" - really?? Do you really think that an M1 Air circa Nov 2020 will be less capable of running ARM Windows 11 or Linux than the equivalent Core i3/i5 circa 2020 running x86 Windows 11 or Linux?? Do you really think the equivalent x86 Laptop from 2020 will last longer/work better than the Air in 2028-30? If so, what evidence of past performance would support this?
If you don't have anything solid to write an article about, then don't create some sensationalist headline and work your way backwards with feeble content to support it.

"M1 / M2 [...] unparalleled performance-per-Watt ratio."

Wrong. In machine learning, Nvidia RTX 4000 is about 5 times as efficient.

You can only make such a statement (for some M1 devices) if also requiring both silent operation and small form factor. (x64 and Nvidia can have silent operation in a passively cooled DIY desktop but not in a small form factor.)

Quote from: George on July 17, 2023, 22:03:31First lets see if the site will let me post....

Ahhh... the silly and rather stupid 'constant upgrade' syndrome. The notion that the hardware becomes useless because of lack of 'support' for the software that runs on it.

If we attempt to put computer buyers into two distinct groups there is the 'application specific' group and the 'anything and everything' group.

For both groups of buyers it is assumed that the hardware AND software that they installed on the computer does EVERYTHING that they require of it. Make sense?

Then comes the notion of 'security' along with the assumption that ALL computers are attached DIRECTLY TO THE INTERNET 24/7/365 (which surely is not the case at all) and it is because of this 'constant threat' that Operating System vendors as well as Software vendors are constantly patching holes in their OS and software offerings.

The STARK TRUTH is that for %80-95 of applications and uses for a computer don't involve being hooked up to a 'network' much less anything called the 'internet' and as such all the evolving 'threats' simply don't exist for those users and the applications that they are using!

Forgetting for the moment that for much of the world are living in the 'broadband age' which would place any computer device with a RJ45 jack or WIFI driver behind a HARDWARE FIREWALL only the devices and applications that require or use 'internet services' would need to be constantly updated.

Proudly typed on a 2013 era Mac with 2016 era OS but with 2013 era browser. :)

I'm pretty sure your "2013 era browser" is actually a modern one. Internet is always moving, and even old EdgeHTML engine (before the Chromium Switch) can't load certain pages nowadays.

This will be the last Mac I buy if I don't get 10 years out of it.

I think Apple Sillicon Macs will be supported for at least 10 years, like any Windows version.

Probably will not install newer macOS feature updates at some point, but it will still receive patchs and security updates.

Apple's big marketed advantage over other platforms is security. Abandoning expensive Mac users too early will cause several problems, and a bad name in the short term.

Really? The M series chips are all designed around the M1 and M2 chips. So you are telling me Apple will discontinue support for the M1 in another 5 years? Well my laptop would be rather impressive if I even got six years out of it for number 1, and number 2, the only reason would stop supporting it would be to make money by forcing it's user's to upgrade. If that were the case than next year all of M2 machines would also suffer the same fate. This article doesn't make sense to me.

This is why I haven't bought a Mac in over 18 years (unless work supplies one). My experiences with Apple silicone was terrible with the iBook and users are going to see the reality of it now that Apple are back to their proprietary hardware

A single arbitrary decimal digit in the OS version and suddenly your Laptop can no longer install apps any newer with zero upgrade pathways.

Isn't Linus working on Linux for M series chips? Will probably be using that if Apple ends support.

I think Asahi Linux will mature by the time Apple drops support for their MacBooks. In addition to that, I wouldn't put it past M$ to further optimize Windows 12/13 to ARM chips.

"Give it a year, and the built-in Safari browser will become unable to load certain websites. Give it two years, and the OS will be full of holes that no one will ever patch."

Source: completely made up

Quote from: dimadamage on July 17, 2023, 21:22:35

Quote from: Swizzy on July 17, 2023, 21:16:54

Quote from: dimadamage on July 17, 2023, 20:34:11I have MacBook Air with M1 and to me its absolutely fine ... if you don't like MacBook M1 air you can buy a 150$ windows laptop and instal windows 10

Why wouldn't it be fine? Is it 2026 yet?

if you want to use laptop from 2006 in 2026 ... good luck! use windows 10 until 2076!

None of that made any sense whatsoever.

Quote from: Mfc on July 17, 2023, 22:54:14What a stupid clickbait article. "Set to age faster" - really?? Do you really think that an M1 Air circa Nov 2020 will be less capable of running ARM Windows 11 or Linux than the equivalent Core i3/i5 circa 2020 running x86 Windows 11 or Linux?? Do you really think the equivalent x86 Laptop from 2020 will last longer/work better than the Air in 2028-30? If so, what evidence of past performance would support this?
If you don't have anything solid to write an article about, then don't create some sensationalist headline and work your way backwards with feeble content to support it.

The other complete laps in thinking on this lame article is Apple is still selling that first M1 Air nearly 3 years past its initial release, and probably will continue to until the M3 comes out. That will guarantee it will be supported on MacOS another 5 years past its last date of sale - putting support until 2028/2029. And which Intel MacBooks were supported with the OS 8-9 years past its release??

Quote from: mixedfish on July 18, 2023, 06:13:16This is why I haven't bought a Mac in over 18 years (unless work supplies one). My experiences with Apple silicone was terrible with the iBook and users are going to see the reality of it now that Apple are back to their proprietary hardware

A single arbitrary decimal digit in the OS version and suddenly your Laptop can no longer install apps any newer with zero upgrade pathways.

Emmm.... The iBook wasn't Apple Silicone, it was IBM PowerPC.

"Aging faster" precisely how? Using the support window that Apple provides its hardware to compare against older Mac's doesn't change anything. That same older Mac aged out of support at the same rate. I don't know many people who bought the Mac to use it for windows and so while, yes, it is easier to eek out extra use of the laptop by installing another os that wasn't a huge factor to the original purchase.

And has anyone complaining about the usability of m series with windows tried running windows 11 arm? Is it 100% flawless... no. Is a purpose built windows laptop 100% flawless?? Also no. But I can run widows 11 arm for every program I need on the windows side. And hell, it also can manage a large amount of pc only game titles as well. Is it as nice as using boot camp with an intel Mac... no. But it sure as hell isn't going to "age faster" than the 2017 MacBook Pro I also still use at home or the 2019 MacBook Pro I use in the office. But my m1 MacBook Pro can run circulars around those machines.

Will I continue to buy MacBook pros. Absolutely.

Your article's title piqued my interest, largely because it suggests something along the lines of Silicon hardware degradation. That would be pretty wild and certainly worth reading.

Your article's thesis, however, can be rejected on its face. When I can offer clarification or wish to thank an author for a thoughtful piece, I will occasionally write a comment. This comment is different.

Continuing from above, your thesis is prima facie baseless, wrong, misguided, and misleading. What's fascinating is that you've actually assembled an argument of sorts to support the thesis. Each point of your argument is, at best, spurious. Most are wrong. Many are both spurious/wrong and irrelevant to the argument.

With two or three exceptions, I still have every computer I've owned. Of the PCs, all but a laptop supplied by an employer was assembled by me. All still function, though my phone is objectively more capable than all but the most recent build.

Without exception, I still have every Mac I've owned. All are functional. Of the two 2010 iMacs, the 21.5" runs Windows via Bootcamp and the 27" is unsullied. They still even backup to and use as a modem an AirPort, or at least they would if they were plugged in. They wouldn't be able to access all the wonders of the modern Apple ecosystem but they're surprisingly capable. The 27" is in my office, not the closet with the other antiques. A few months ago I used it to tweak a batch of photos. Sometimes it's just easier to do that with Photoshop, and that machine runs a non-cloud, perpetually-licensed, old version of PS. Old PS is still a good tool to have around.

Of the Mac laptops, I still use 16" MacBook Pro with Intel architecture but don't use it as a Windows machine. The M2 Air, however, happily runs Windows within Parallels. I would only ever use MS software within VIM, and there are several ways M-architecture Macs are capable of handling Windows. You argued the contrary, and you are incorrect.

I have new computers. The newest, an M2
Mac is an elegant beast. I'll replace it for daily use in five years, but I won't retire it. It'll still be of value because it'll still be functional.

I have old computers. I plugged in a 13-year-old iMac, and 20 minutes later I'd applied level corrections and multiple filter layers to a batch of photos and transferred them back to a shiny new Silicon laptop.

My old iPad Pro operates in kiosk mode and can control a home theater while adding an extra rinse cycle to laundry in the washing machine. It can give the cats a snack. Those are not the features I used for five years, nor did I imagine myself opening the trunk of my car with it, but I have. My M2 iPad is astonishingly fast, functional, and it would be rude to the old iPad to draw comparisons of any significance. In six or seven years it'll be managing some part of my life, performing functions that don't yet exist or are not widely adopted.

You fail to comprehend the current state of the platform. You fail to place what is current within meaningful context of the past or future. You fail entirely to support your thesis. Your thesis is unquestionably flawed, but your sin was failing to make it the slightest bit convincing. You displayed a failure of imagination and conviction, the two things that can make a dumb idea, at the least, interesting.

Just use the hourglass model next time. Be wrong. Explain your flawed logic. Then support it with increasingly insightful arguments. That's the fun part. I can disagree with you but as long as you support your stupidity intelligently, I'll give you my time. Anyway, after presenting and supporting your argument, then expand your scope and draw whatever ridiculous conclusions you'd like. That's supposed to be the part people whine about in the comments.

Your entire article is an assault on the sensibilities of your readers. Don't do that again. OK? Seriously. You got it?

This the most click bait, article ever! 10 years from now your Mac will be useless! NOBODY CARES

Please review and discuss the Asahi Linux project.

Did you intentionally choose to ignore it, along with the WINE project and Box86 and Box64 and other projects to run windows apps on ARM Linux?

Just like for the Raspberry Pi?

Or was this an oversight from lack of knowledge about the project?

Amazingly how many people trive on the back of the tech industry being heavily biased and/or illiterate like the author.

Although the old
Macs may be dated you still can run a Linux OS on them :) I recommend Fedora :)

The minimum term for hardware support shall be set at 10 years in all countries without exception. And at least 15 years for network equipment.

Here you can not rely on greedy and immoral business. This is where civil society action is needed. But where is it? It is not found anywhere, even in Western countries. This became especially clear after 2020.

If there are no citizens, there are no states. There are organized crime groups under the guise of a government in ties with TNCs...

This is one of the worst articles I've ever seen from this website.
Unbelievable