NotebookCHECK - Notebook Forum

Again, strange results in GTA V (2015) - only 138.5fps in QHD and for some reason 175.7fps in 4k, which requires much more resources. All other games are exactly the opposite. There is a clear error from test to test from review to review.

What do we see in comparison with Razer on the same processor?
PL1=150W in Titan or 37% higher than Razer. The difference in speed is only 6% in CBR15, and judging by the gradual drop in numbers, you had to continue the test for another 30 minutes. Especially for Titan with a separate extended schedule. It is obvious that the laptop cannot keep these 4900 parrots further and the computing speed will gradually drop. Clearly extremely inefficient use of energy in the MSI Titan.

Go ahead...
Razer with the same processor has a much faster 5600 memory than the infamous 4800. What immediately affects the AIDA64 tests for working in Photoshop is that Razer is almost 25% faster in the Photoworx test. A very significant difference for a professional. And all because of the slow 4800 memory, which have throughput only a shameful 60-63Gbyte/s, instead of 78-83Gbyte/s in Razer with 5600.

Let me remind you again that the memory controller in Apple's M2 Max is almost 5 times faster than that of the i9 13950HX - it pumps up to 400GByte/s. Camp x86 is completely defeated. Years ahead...
Let me remind you again that the memory controller in Apple's M2 Max is almost 5 times faster than that of the i9 13950HX - it pumps up to 400GByte/s. Camp x86 is completely defeated. Years ahead... For example, in Zen4 7945HX there is simply nothing to serve 28 pci-e 5.0 lines, which simultaneously require at least 112 GByte/s, and the memory speed is much lower, but should be (for everything else to work easily) up to 10 times higher, i.e. almost 1TByte/s for top mobile Zen4. When will we see a 512-1024 bit memory controller in the x86 camp? With pumping from 0.5TByte/s at least for RAM speed? We don't need a 100MB L3 cache (like SLC cache in SSD). We need HBM memory in x86. Here and now...

System latency:
Despite the wild CPU and super speed, it has obvious problems with smooth video and sound, according to Latency Monitor tests. MSI needs to do something urgently with the drivers. However, Razer is also not doing well in this matter.

The main thing in 3D is that the games finally got stable 60fps + with a mobile 4090. But of course, there is no question of any 120Hz +. But thanks to a versatile 16:10 4k panel that easily switches to fhd mode for crystal-clear imagery (as opposed to Razer's hazy 2.5k fhd mode), they'll easily get over 100fps in any game at Ultra settings, if desired.

Key notes about 4k miniLED panel:
1.   A key note about 144Hz mode for this panel is that to support HDR operation at this frame rate, the eDP link must be pumping around 40Gbps. But as far as I know, neither RaptorLake nor Zen4 (even Phoenix with "4nm") support UHBR20 mode. Zen4 officially only supports UHBR10 in the Phoenix version, and Raptor Lake generally only infamous eDP1.4b with a maximum of 32Gb / s (including overhead and 25.92Gb / s without). As everyone knows, officially NVidia and AMD also do not support DP2.0 (2.1) in their video chips for laptops in 2023, and certainly not in UHBR20 mode. It turns out that MSI forgot to inform owners of Titan laptops that the panel is connected to a laptop via an interface that is not able to transmit a 3840x2400@144Hz 30bit (HDR) signal in lossless mode. And transmits it only in lossy DSC mode, i.e. the picture is not a perfect monitor lossless mode 4:4:4. Thus, even the 120Hz mode in HDR is not achievable here, if there is eDP1.4b in the i9 only and only with DP2.0+ with UHBR10 120Hz with HDR are achievable...
2.   The author took measurements contrast of miniLED in native mode, knowing full well about the key problem of miniLED - halos around text at the borders of light and dark zones. This is an irreparable shortcoming. Is it possible to turn off multi-zone backlighting on this panel via MSI software and work with one common backlight, as in some miniLED monitors? If there is, I would like to see tests of native contrast with multi-zone highlighting turned off and without halos around the text. Only microLED will give us an analogue of AMIOLED, but on the condition that it will not flicker and will have a resource of 15k hours, as opposed to 7-8k hours on a typical AMOLED, all other things being equal.
So far, the usual IPS 4k@120Hz (in 24-bit mode) with a native contrast ratio of 1500:1+ remains the best choice for the eyes.
3.   The response time cannot be zero a priori.

The fact that the laptop is very noisy (traditionally for MSI) is obvious and there is no point in focusing on this. Although I would like to get a more detailed study of the laptop's operation in a normal load when setting up the operation of coolers through MSI's proprietary cooler management utility - this is their significant advantage over laptops from other companies, only L7Pro 2023 supposedly will receive the same utility for the first time in Lenovo's history - please and there to investigate this question carefully when you have it on tests.

What can I say in the end, given the weight of the laptop along 5kg+ with PSU and its wild noise in games? What is this all for? This is no longer a laptop, but a portable system unit with a built-in monitor. In reality, only shift workers and sailors at sea need such a machine, because they just have nothing else to do there. But why somewhere need to buy this monster for home, instead of a much quieter desktop computer with a much faster desktop 4090?

Well, since these are top-end laptops, I would like to clearly know that HDMI 2.1 in them definitely supports 48Gbps mode and VRR from 30fps (which is important for example in movies)...

Congratulations! Excellent review!

There is an error:

The information in "CPU & GPU data Witcher 3 loop (Ultra settings)" (Gaming Performance section) is identical to the information "CPU & GPU data stress test" (Temperature section). Only the core clocks are different...

@PHVM_BR:

Thank you, I added the correct data for the stress test!

Finally you can enjoy raytraced Cyberpunk on a laptop with decent frames! That is a remarkable feat in itself.

Surprised there are no response times measured for the display (in SDR mode) on a gaming laptop.

Hey NikoB there are some of us that like to move around the house, or have more than 1 house or want to take it to the holidays or have a job that requires to stay in other countries or cities.


Concerning the laptop, i guess we will have to wait for a Intel 15th series CPUs to be able to have a laptop like this working silently to hear music, movie, work in office?
I hope that AMD see the opportunity here..

Something tells me that carrying a 5kg weight is not a good idea, only around the house (and this is obvious). Yes, it noise is hellish, even headphones will not help, it tires immediately. If you are so rich that you have several houses - why not put a gaming desktop or PS5 in each?

The picture of the bottom says engineering sample does this even tell us anything?

I am buying two MSI CreatorPro X17 in 2022;
They are manufactured based on GT77, one is 12900HX+A3000, and the other is 12900HX+A5500;
I'm mostly happy with them, as the performance of both is among the best for a mobile workstation in 2022.
The most important thing is that they can install four M.2 SSD;
But I don't like their four memory running at 3600MT/s, but there is nothing I can do;
Because other mobile workstations that can install four M.2 SSDs, the performance is significantly lower than the MSI CreatorPro X17.

Now, the new generation of GT77HX uses 13900HX+RTX 4090lp, and its performance is indeed much better.
However, I'm really disappointed that I can only have 3 M.2 SSDs.

At present, it seems that no notebook computer using 139**HX+RTX 4090lp can install 4 M.2 SSDs at the same time.

Just curios: what are your applications that you need 4 SSDs and speed faster than 3600MT/s? Would you not profit from 5+ SSDs on a desktop?

For example RAID10 on this array of 4TB disks. Moreover, it is better if they are from different manufacturers, but with the same MTBF / MTFF and of course capacity / speed, which will reduce possible problems with only one series.

It will not work to make a RAID10 of 3 disks - at least 4. Therefore, MSI killed RAID10 in the new Titan...

I would like to have a laptop with 144hz 4K hdr display, but without any gaming shenanigans. I would pair it to an i5 H series cpu, and power it via igpu. And 99Wh battery.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on February 15, 2023, 16:20:26Just curios: what are your applications that you need 4 SSDs and speed faster than 3600MT/s? Would you not profit from 5+ SSDs on a desktop?

Desktop computers are not convenient for mobile work, and their power consumption is relatively large, and they occupy a large area. In case of a sudden power failure, it will be very troublesome.
I actually have a desktop, a DELL Precsion T5820, with two RTX A6000 graphics cards installed, and two 8TB SSD U2 hard drives, but I'm used to using a laptop.
As for memory, 4800 or higher 5600MT/s is obviously better than 3600MT/s. Otherwise, why are human beings always pursuing higher, faster and stronger?

Quote from: 185ec11 on February 16, 2023, 17:57:39I would like to have a laptop with 144hz 4K hdr display, but without any gaming shenanigans. I would pair it to an i5 H series cpu, and power it via igpu. And 99Wh battery.

HP ZBook Fury 16G9 can customize the model with integrated graphics card, but the display is only 4K@120Hz, and it is not mini-LED. It seems that there is only DIY, but a brand new mini-LED 4K@144Hz screen, I bought it here The price is as high as 6,000 yuan or more, which is approximately equal to 1,000 US dollars.

DELL Alienware M18 can achieve 13900HX+RTX 4090lp+4 x M.2 SSD, however, it is 2xM.2 2280 + 2xM.2 2230.
Someone has DIYed it, and it can be installed with 4xM.2 2280 SSDs
https://www.zhihu.com/question/584372327 (https://www.zhihu.com/question/584372327)

However, the modified two slots cannot be installed with double-sided flash memory SSDs due to insufficient height, so 4TB and 8TB M.2 2280 SSDs still cannot be installed.

Screen response times seem atrotious for a gaming laptop.  Are these measured without Overdrive, or are they just that bad?

I would like to see a comparison between gt77 2022 3080ti vs gt77 2023 4090. Wanted to see the gaming benchmarks at various resolutions in 1080p 2k and 4k ? if possible, the benchmark of content creation too, blender,vray.

Epic price and some epic fails i can see:
30ms transitions, that's about the same as my P870's 60Hz B173ZAN01.0 from 2016 and it has at times atrociously obvious ghosting. Ghosting can't be fixed with fps or brightness or contrast... for reference, 120Hz is a frame every 8.33ms. DO NOT buy this laptop before you see a blurbusters demo of this screen so you know what you're getting!

225W cooling is not really that impressive. Still only allows 50W on the CPU if the GPU is sucking 175W. If the BIOS can't be unlocked to up this limit, spend 3k euro less on a laptop that has a similar level of throttling.

And 4800Mhz RAM, seriously, all that heatpipe spaghetti and 4 fans and they leave 5-10% CPU performance on the table with this budget RAM?

Hi, I'm getting a lot of burning eyes when using my new MSI GT77 2023. Is it normal at the beginning of use? Previously I used an MSI laptop with a 60Hz refresh rate and there was no problem. Does it get better with longer use? Thank you!

The notebook uses Pulse-Width Modulation at 2380Hz. The impact of PWM is individually different. Since you experience immediate health problems, longer use can make matters only worse. Return the notebook immediately unless the cause of your health problem is elsewhere and only incidentally coinciding with your notebook use.

Hi all,

I owned this laptop for a few days before I decided to return it.
In short, DO NOT buy this laptop trust me.
And you can guess why. Ok let's take all cons (not)mentioned .

- very loud fans
I don't care much because MSI Center allow tweak fan curves. So in idle fans can be turned off or keep fans with low RPM (barely audible). And in future I would open it and mod it adding more heat pipes, coolers and re-paste with LM.

- poor HDR implementation
I tried to enable it and it was horrible so very true. But I can live with SDR.

- poor 720p webcam
I'm not a streamer. And I don't know even remember when I used webcam on my current laptop. I would disable webcam anyway by disable driver and turn off by switch.

- SSD throttling
RAID 0 for gaming laptop is just nonsense and in future I would buy PCIe 5.0 SSD. I would add some termal pads.

- Expensive
True, but for a laptop that will serve me for several years (at least 5 years), I did not take this as a deciding factor. My price limit was quite high but I'm expecting also good quality and performance.

- Missing G-Sync and Advanced Optimus
It's a shame that such high end laptop do not have those while much cheaper competition have it. But for me it was not that important these days I more casual gamer and more content creator.

- PWM at all brightness levels
I though that 2380 Hz PWM is high enough so you probably won't notice any flickering. Problem here is little bit different see bellow.

- Whine sound coming from the monitor
At first I thought I had tinnitus (ringing in the ears), but no, it's from this laptop. After a few hours of use it became very uncomfortable, I had a headache. So I taken this laptop to the most silent room to measure audible spectral noise (via free Spectroid app). And I measured exactly same frequency 2380 Hz + ~4.8 kHz (higher harmonic). To me it looks like MSI forgot to measure EMC (electromagnetic compatibility) to meet regulations.

Conclusion:
I think MSI should be ashamed for selling device harmful to health. I don't understand why such expensive laptop using cheap PWM ICs. Recommendation is DO NOT buy it! And if you bought return it immediately while you have time. I'm afraid that RMA won't be accepted by MSI. Because monitor's power ICs design is bad. MSI should learn from this and not sell expensive sh*t.

Quote from: Windsun on March 31, 2023, 23:23:58- very loud fans [...] I would open it and mod it adding more heat pipes, coolers and re-paste with LM.

Hehe. It speaks volumes that an enthusiast considers doing such to a supposed high end notebook, which should already have proper cooling.

Just curious, would you consider a notebook with similar hardware and better cooling from a different manufacturer or is the Titan hardware the minimum you need so that you hardly find any alternative candidates?

Quote from: RobertJasiek on April 01, 2023, 07:00:23Hehe. It speaks volumes that an enthusiast considers doing such to a supposed high end notebook, which should already have proper cooling.

I agree with that. But for me it is small investment. Quite strange was that this laptop has 4 fans but SW allowed me control only 2 big ones.
BTW this tweaking I had to do for my current laptop (MSI GT62VR 7RE Dominator Pro) too.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on April 01, 2023, 07:00:23Just curious, would you consider a notebook with similar hardware and better cooling from a different manufacturer or is the Titan hardware the minimum you need so that you hardly find any alternative candidates?

Yes I considered competition.
My Current GT62VR 7RE has:
CPU: i7-7820HK 4C/8T OC
GPU: GTX 1070 8GB - unlocked up to 215.0 W
RAM: 64GB
BIOS unlocked advanced menu

My minimum was at least double everyting.
CPU: 16C/32T so 13980HX or 7945HX
RAM: 128GB (true it has 64GB but at least upgradable)
GPU: RTX4090 16GB
And yea this Titan GT77 has also unlocked BIOS (via 4 key combo)

I considered
XMG NEO 17
better cooling (water) but a little bit worse CPU 13900HX
Only max 64GB RAM
BIOS will be probably locked.

I haven't find any other laptop that offer max 128GB RAM with TOP HW + unlocked BIOS and will not be harmful to health. :)

I think I will have to wait one more year for next gen CPU/GPU and hope that MSI and monitor manufacturers (AUO) will get better.

Quote from: Windsun on April 01, 2023, 16:00:08128GB RAM with TOP HW + unlocked BIOS and will not be harmful to health. :)

I think I will have to wait one more year for next gen CPU/GPU and hope that MSI and monitor manufacturers (AUO) will get better.

Either this or you might be lucky that some new workstation is released with 128GB RAM option and PWM-free display.

Last year's Titan had both but maybe the other hardware was not sufficient for you?

Quote from: RobertJasiek on April 01, 2023, 18:07:06Either this or you might be lucky that some new workstation is released with 128GB RAM option and PWM-free display.

Last year's Titan had both but maybe the other hardware was not sufficient for you?

Mobile workstations offer up to 128GB RAM but do not offer same CPU or GPU performance. And I don't need proffesional GPU. Those workstations still using 11 or 12 gen CPU and Ampere gen GPU.

Last year's Titan's monitor in current Titan would be only option but that's not offered by MSI. So I have to be patient.

Zen 4 Phoenix officially support 256Gb(384Gb with 192Gbx2) of RAM for 2 slots.

Efficient and powerful neural networks require tens of terabytes of memory. Better petabytes. This is the only thing that really holds them back, not the speed of the processors.

Because it is unrealistic to save the state of memory of such a volume in a short time for any existing long-term storage technology, there is only one way out - non-volatile RAM, but all existing similar technologies have significant limitations - the speed and number of rewrite cycles, as well as monstrous latency due to larger minimum access blocks.

Soon, the entire architecture of modern computer systems will have to be replaced, because. Von Neumann architecture is dead in fact.

Now is about the same era as the end of the 90s - then the shift from tens of megabytes to gigabytes also quickly went on, and then everything stabilized for a long time.

Why there is no individual CPU and GPU power consumption chart.

I wonder if laptop manufactures have ever tried to implement a noise canceling system using the built in speakers to cut down of fan noise.