The fourth generation of Lenovo's multimedia laptop ThinkPad X1 Extreme introduces vapor chamber cooling to the series and enables more powerful GPUs, but is the GeForce RTX 3080 really worth the premium and is there a noticeable advantage over the RTX 3070?
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X1-Extreme-G4-Review-The-best-Mutlimedia-Laptop-thanks-to-Core-i9-and-RTX-3080.588585.0.html
I'm sorry, did you just say "without noticeable performance gains" when referring to 35% less performance compared to cheaper laptops with the same CPU/GPU?
What do you think about a $1300 / 15" 3060 laptop outperforming this $5000 one with a 3080?
notebookcheck.net/Medion-Erazer-Deputy-P25-gaming-laptop-review-Strong-performance-weak-display.582910.0.html
Can someone who owns a gen 4 P1 or X1 check what the speakers sound like if they disabled the Dolby Atmos effects in the Dolby Access software? I keep on seeing reviews saying the sound is great but I'm not planning to install Dolby Atmos (won't be running windows). Thanks!
A high priced high performance laptop that severely underperforms its hardware because gimped power limits hide an underspec thermal solution gets a 88% rating?
Single channel memory in any configuration of a high end unit? Crazy
Quote from: Trehc on December 23, 2021, 22:08:23
Can someone who owns a gen 4 P1 or X1 check what the speakers sound like if they disabled the Dolby Atmos effects in the Dolby Access software? I keep on seeing reviews saying the sound is great but I'm not planning to install Dolby Atmos (won't be running windows). Thanks!
If you disable the dolby audio enhancements, the speakers sounds way more quiet and tiny, even worse than a phone.
For 4400 the performance is ridiculous low.
Quote from: Lorry on December 23, 2021, 17:36:53
I'm sorry, did you just say "without noticeable performance gains" when referring to 35% less performance compared to cheaper laptops with the same CPU/GPU?
What do you think about a $1300 / 15" 3060 laptop outperforming this $5000 one with a 3080?
notebookcheck.net/Medion-Erazer-Deputy-P25-gaming-laptop-review-Strong-performance-weak-display.582910.0.html
You're paying for the silicon. And it doesn't get any cheaper just because it has a lower power budget because it's housed in a thin laptop. Is it worth it? That's up to you. It's definitely cheaper to just increase power budget and make it thick. That's just how it is. Nobody forces you to pay extra for a thin laptop if you don't mind a thick one. Also, Lenovo charges as much as they do for a ThinkPad because they can. If you don't mind buying from a company most people never heard of, again, nobody forces to pay premium for a ThinkPad.
Quote from: Bennyg111 on December 24, 2021, 02:28:14
Single channel memory in any configuration of a high end unit? Crazy
If it matters to you, just choose a 2x16 configuration (or 2x32). Usually, people would buy single channel to have an easy upgrade path. Nothing to discard of and access to the first slot is sometimes less convenient.
Quote from: LL on December 26, 2021, 02:46:55
For 4400 the performance is ridiculous low.
Well, it's not a value oriented configuration. Expensive, top of the line silicon in a compromised body. You're already paying a premium for the components and then you can't even utilize their potential. Whatever floats your boat. Expensive laptops offering poor value have been around for ages.
@_MT_
What gives anyone the impression that a brand is "premium"? Or an extra 0.3 inch "thinness" is premium? Who decides that perception?
It's such an ironically wonderful thing Nvidia's marketing team decided to screw customers hard with their GPU branding this year, because their screwing up informed the world of what is good value and what is not when it comes to laptops.
Look at the best selling high-performance lineup - Legion, ROG and Tong Fang, are they overpriced ultra-thin laptops? Look at revised MacBook Pros compared to last 5 years, do they look thinner now that they've become more efficient?
No.
Quote from: Dorby on December 27, 2021, 18:42:22
What gives anyone the impression that a brand is "premium"? Or an extra 0.3 inch "thinness" is premium? Who decides that perception?
It's such an ironically wonderful thing Nvidia's marketing team decided to screw customers hard with their GPU branding this year, because their screwing up informed the world of what is good value and what is not when it comes to laptops.
Look at the best selling high-performance lineup - Legion, ROG and Tong Fang, are they overpriced ultra-thin laptops? Look at revised MacBook Pros compared to last 5 years, do they look thinner now that they've become more efficient?
No.
Premium refers to an amount you pay extra for something. By definition, if a thinner laptop costs €1000 more than an otherwise identical thicker laptop, then you're paying a €1000 premium for the thinness. And by the act of buying it, you are declaring that those 0.3" in thickness are worth €1000 to you. And if you lose performance by going for the thinner laptop, that lost performance is also part of the premium. By the principles of the world we live in, making a laptop thinner without compromising other qualities is more difficult and therefore more expensive. They are going to be more expensive. And whether it's worth it or not, that's decided by sales.
Nothing is stopping a manufacturer from clearly declaring a TGP. But we all know that thermal constraints of chassis is far from trivial subject. Blame Nvidia if you want, but it's an inherent feature of sophisticated power management. That is what allows processors to survive in an unfit chassis. In the olden days, they would just go up in flames. And again, it's up to you whether you buy it or not. Whether you buy a laptop without knowing proper specification. Whether you buy expensive silicon with low power limit. But you can't escape the complexity of performance quantification.
Because they offer value. And many people actually do play games. I don't have a problem with that. But I also recall business laptops costing over 5k in top of the line configurations and workstations going over 8k. You don't have to buy it. It can be unfortunate when such configurations are sent for testing as most people won't consider them. But if you don't need it and can't afford it, then don't buy it. It's silly to bring out cheap gaming laptops here as people who consider paying over 3k for an X1E are probably not considering them. Thick and heavy laptops are only relevant as far as seeing how much you're losing. What is actually the price you're paying.
The new MBPs might look thick, but I think they are actually a tiny bit slimmer and very similarly thin in any case. It's just an optical effect. And plenty of people are not happy about it. The new processor is a lot more efficient and works well in a thin chassis. So, you don't really need more cooling, yet you're paying the price of a thicker look without getting any better cooling. It might be more comfortable on your legs. The thicker sides might have helped them with integrating other ports. So, there might be upsides. But I wouldn't mention MBP in this discussion. Apple has made more than one questionable design choice lately.
@_MT_
I believe gaming laptops and MBPs are relevant because they are genuinely better for doing the same work these buyers can on the X1 Extreme. If they weren't, gaming laptops wouldn't be sold out everywhere, media would have gone after the macs with pitchforks and torches, and I wouldn't be seeing them at work.
Maybe it depends on region and industry? I've just never seen this laptop in person outside of hardware store display.
Quote from: Dorby on December 30, 2021, 09:16:03
I believe gaming laptops and MBPs are relevant because they are genuinely better for doing the same work these buyers can on the X1 Extreme. If they weren't, gaming laptops wouldn't be sold out everywhere, media would have gone after the macs with pitchforks and torches, and I wouldn't be seeing them at work.
Maybe it depends on region and industry? I've just never seen this laptop in person outside of hardware store display.
Of course they can do the same work and for less money. They can offer even more performance. A laptop like this is all about being thinner and lighter. That's what you're paying for. And then you're paying for it being a ThinkPad, for the keyboard and such (which gets worse by the year). There are plenty of other thinner laptops. If these things don't matter to you, then why pay for them? And it actually helps when your work is not too demanding. As it's a compromised machine. Of course, we can debate whether anyone is going to buy a configuration like this one, with a 3080. Probably yes; there are plenty of people with more money than sense. But you can and don't have to. Suit yourself. The fact of the matter is that if you need to work unplugged, even laptops with higher wattage 3080s will have to pull back a lot in order to have any battery life to speak of. That's a very different game. And those heavyweights are often poorly optimized and have terrible battery life.
Personally, I struggle with MBPs as a tonne of software simply doesn't exist for Macs. It's really annoying as I don't like Windows.
Quote from: Trehc on December 23, 2021, 22:08:23
Can someone who owns a gen 4 P1 or X1 check what the speakers sound like if they disabled the Dolby Atmos effects in the Dolby Access software? I keep on seeing reviews saying the sound is great but I'm not planning to install Dolby Atmos (won't be running windows). Thanks!
Fear not! They will sound great if you do just a tiny bit of configuration. This can also be performed to make other notebooks sound better in Linux (or even external speakers)--even if they don't aren't marketed as having Atmos speakers.
To find all the info you need, just search for "X1 Extreme Gen 4: Dolby Atmos setup for Linux" on reddit.com/r/thinkpad. I'd provide a link, but I just reg'ed here to give you this info and this site won't let me (low post count).