Hydrogen has always been a much more viable solution than battery, especially in heavy industries like logistics and aviation. But of course, we don't see the wide mainstream adoption of hydrogen because hydrogen tank doesn't need to be replaced as frequently as the battery.

Quote from: Chatte on November 06, 2023, 15:08:33Do you know how much water is wasted to create a kilo of lithium?

Not as much as the media will have you believe, because notice at no point do they say "fresh" water. Most of it is grey water or brine water.

Quote from: S. Sullivan on November 05, 2023, 16:10:44It seems to me like the prior posters are not up to date on current sources of hydrogen that will allow it to scale. Technology will be the catalyst to move the production of hydrogen fuels forward. My concern is; how do we store it for mobility and onsite power generation

Sounds like you are not up to date. Technology isn't a vacuum, and hydrogen is just getting less and less competitive by the year as other technologies are improving faster and have much better potential

Quote from: Mr Majestyk on November 05, 2023, 01:26:5195-96% of the worlds hydrogen is dirty, ie produced by filthy means. Unless they have a way of massively ramping up green hydrogen production and slashing costs hydrogen will never be a "green" energy source.

And lithium based batteries are? Do you know how much water is wasted to create a kilo of lithium?
My concern is not the infrastructure but the safety of the hydrogen powered cars. They're basically walking around in waiting to happen zeppelins.

Load of rubbish. I work in the hydrogen sector, and it's only viable for very niche edge cases. Batteries are the better solution in most cases now, and that's only going to get more true as time goes on and batteries improve. Hydrogen continues to be a great way to extract grant money from governments, though...

Quote from: S. Sullivan on November 05, 2023, 16:10:44It seems to me like the prior posters are not up to date on current sources of hydrogen that will allow it to scale. Technology will be the catalyst to move the production of hydrogen fuels forward. My concern is; how do we store it for mobility and onsite power generation

More like it seems you have no clue. Talk is cheap, and there is no indication green hydrogen production will scale up to the level required. Just throwing the word technology around doesn't change the CURRENT situation.

Yes, "hydrogen as a molecular energy storage medium is ideal for decentralized production, storage, and usage." But it requires "establishing an infrastructure for this energy source."
Indeed, "One of the preconditions for the development of a hydrogen market is the infrastructure for transport and storage. By being the first European country to have its hydrogen infrastructure in place, the Netherlands can be an important hub for renewable energy."
And this is true for every country, including the United States.

"The instance of forklift trucks highlights that despite being equipped with battery storage, their performance deteriorates as the battery level depletes and charging times are lengthy. Conversely, hydrogen can be refuelled rapidly and without generating CO₂ emissions."

Wow, that totally convinced me! Right, it's absolutely impossible to swap batteries in forklifts, but the infrastructure for hydrogen is so simple to build and easy to maintain, you don't even need to mention it. You also don't need to mention that manufacturing and storing hydrogen requires way more energy than charging a battery - because that would make hydrogen look bad.

Don't mention that hydrogen burns with an invisible flame, people will find out soon enough. Hydrogen has its use, but it is not universal. Just like this article has only one purpose: to increase the value of hydrogen stocks...

Leaky lousy fuel.
Use it for best needs made where it is used.

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It seems to me like the prior posters are not up to date on current sources of hydrogen that will allow it to scale. Technology will be the catalyst to move the production of hydrogen fuels forward. My concern is; how do we store it for mobility and onsite power generation

Everybody talks about decarbonising for 80 Mt grey H2, but nobody reminds it needs mostly for ICE fuels production. It is not solution for problem, it is just clean energy covertation to decrease emissions a bit.

So the article admits hydrogen is inferior in short term storage to batteries, then goes on to say their advantage is in doing long term storage, a market batteries don't participate in, and not a single mention of over 10+ technologies that do.

It's like saying: Hey, I am a plumber, you should use me for plumbing cause I do it better than an average electrician.

95-96% of the worlds hydrogen is dirty, ie produced by filthy means. Unless they have a way of massively ramping up green hydrogen production and slashing costs hydrogen will never be a "green" energy source.