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Posted by Neenyah
 - May 25, 2023, 15:15:41
Quote from: A on May 23, 2023, 18:43:44Not having Adrenalin is hardly saying it is poor linux support. The most important is having the drivers and the capability. In terms of user friendliness of needing to download 3rd party software, being forced to install a new OS is less user friendly than that. As for those who do offer linux computers, I'd say it is the oems responsibility to include those. Some even in windows use their own like MSI Afterburner, ASUS GPU Tweak and etc.
Hey, sorry about being a bit late to reply (too busy); I'm about to say that I can't disagree with anything here, that's a good perspective and you are right about it, especially the part in bold. I still remember "good ol' days" where AMD/Radeon GPU drivers are absolute horror in every single distro and I surely can admit that they improved a lot since then by what and how they offer.

But then again, we too often have something like thin on the Windows side 👉 reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/13lopq2/windows_being_windows/ 👈? I'll quote just the top comment with accurate description of the situation:

QuoteThanks AMD for not maintaining parity between distribution methods.

This isn't a windows problem, they just provide a method for OEMs to push their drivers. AMD does not keep it up to date and so windows updates detects a difference and reverts it.

Is something like that an issue in Linux with AMD's drivers? Recently I have never used Linux + AMD combo on any of my personal machines so can't comment about how that works but I see that you have more knowledge about it so please share a bit of info, I'm curious to hear (well, read). Thanks in advance ✌
Posted by NikoB
 - May 24, 2023, 10:37:16
Of course my logic makes no sense! It only makes sense to have a tight wallet in your pocket, thanks to rising stocks. )))

If only, if only ... In fact, Apple made its shareholders millionaires, and ruined by Intel's loosers.

Intel is bankrupt and its shares have fallen more than 3 times in 25 years in real dollars in 1997 in terms of purchasing power, clearly signals this.

Better argue on Linkus vs. Windows, although even there you get sucks.
Posted by A
 - May 23, 2023, 21:50:22
Quote from: NikoB on May 23, 2023, 20:50:43You should be aware that the stock price quoted by me and published everywhere already takes into account splits in retrospect on the charts. As well as the price of Apple shares, for example, which have grown over the same time by more than 1000 times. Here Apple really made shareholders millionaires. Even ordinary people who had $1000 worth of shares in 1997 and were smart enough to keep them for 25 years.

Your logic makes 0 sense on why you are comparing one and the other. Just cause one stock did better than the other doesn't take away from its value. Keeping Apple stock all the way from 1997 would be a pretty gutsy move considering if not for the monopoly lawsuits aimed at MS, Apple stock would be worth 0 today.
Posted by NikoB
 - May 23, 2023, 20:50:43
Quote from: A on May 23, 2023, 16:30:12Uhm, you are aware stock splits are a thing right? When stock prices get too high, companies split their shares so that more people can afford to buy shares. Intel split their stock in 1997, 1999 and 2000. And if I remember correctly, their stock gives dividend
You should be aware that the stock price quoted by me and published everywhere already takes into account splits in retrospect on the charts. As well as the price of Apple shares, for example, which have grown over the same time by more than 1000 times. Here Apple really made shareholders millionaires. Even ordinary people who had $1000 worth of shares in 1997 and were smart enough to keep them for 25 years.

Posted by A
 - May 23, 2023, 18:43:44
Quote from: Neenyah on May 23, 2023, 17:33:29Replying from Android is hell though, as you can see it above 😄 I'll repost once again just to keep clarity and fix errors that my Gboard was "fixing" initially.
Even on desktop I always use preview cause quoting is annoying.

QuoteI meant about Adrenalin literally not being available on Linux. Sure there is CoreCtrl (gitlab.com/corectrl/corectrl) but if not having official software available on one pretty popular OS (kernel but yeah, you know what I mean) is not a sign of a bad support...

Sure we can argue that Adrenalin is not needed on Linux because Windows users have it available because Windows is proprietary and locked down same as AMD's GPU drivers but still, it's not a good sign when you need to do it all through CLI or GUI open source tools to control voltage curves, memory clocks, power limits and so on.

And while that is actually quite fun to do and tweak it that way I'm pretty confident that majority of users worldwide are not into such tweaking when they can simply drag things left and right in Windows in the official software and, if there is anything that goes wrong, there is always restore defaults option.

Not having Adrenalin is hardly saying it is poor linux support. The most important is having the drivers and the capability. In terms of user friendliness of needing to download 3rd party software, being forced to install a new OS is less user friendly than that. As for those who do offer linux computers, I'd say it is the oems responsibility to include those. Some even in windows use their own like MSI Afterburner, ASUS GPU Tweak and etc.


QuoteI definitely agree with you and it's what I meant to write initially 👍 But considering that modern Windows does not exist anymore on mobile devices such as phones and tablets and Trollminator NikoB talks specifically about Windows being dead, I chose to mention only PC numbers.

I think he just has a deep hate for x86, it probably killed their dog.
Posted by Neenyah
 - May 23, 2023, 17:33:29
Replying from Android is hell though, as you can see it above 😄 I'll repost once again just to keep clarity and fix errors that my Gboard was "fixing" initially.

Quote from: A on May 23, 2023, 08:31:01
Quote from: Neenyah on May 23, 2023, 00:45:32Or AMD + Linux with AMD's comically bad Linux support?
AMD now has excellent Linux support. Just cause he is bashing intel is no reason to bash AMD.
I meant about Adrenalin literally not being available on Linux. Sure there is CoreCtrl (gitlab.com/corectrl/corectrl) but if not having official software available on one pretty popular OS (kernel but yeah, you know what I mean) is not a sign of a bad support...

Sure we can argue that Adrenalin is not needed on Linux because Windows users have it available because Windows is proprietary and locked down same as AMD's GPU drivers but still, it's not a good sign when you need to do it all through CLI or GUI open source tools to control voltage curves, memory clocks, power limits and so on.

And while that is actually quite fun to do and tweak it that way I'm pretty confident that majority of users worldwide are not into such tweaking when they can simply drag things left and right in Windows in the official software and, if there is anything that goes wrong, there is always restore defaults option.

Quote from: A on May 23, 2023, 08:31:01Technically, the #1 OS on the planet today is Android
I definitely agree with you and it's what I meant to write initially 👍 But considering that modern Windows does not exist anymore on mobile devices such as phones and tablets and Trollminator NikoB talks specifically about Windows being dead, I chose to mention only PC numbers.
Posted by Neenyah
 - May 23, 2023, 17:24:44
Quote from: A on May 23, 2023, 08:31:01AMD now has excellent Linux support. Just cause he is bashing intel is no reason to bash AMD.
QuoteI meant about Adrenalin literally not being available on Linux. Sure there is CoreCtrl (gitlab.com/corectrl/corectrl) but if not having official software available on one pretty popular OS (kernel but yeah, you know what I mean) is not a sign of a bad support...

Sure we can argue that Adrenalin is not needed on Linux because Windows users have it available because Windows is proprietary and lock down same as AMD's GPU drivers but still, it's not a good sign when you need to do it all through CLI or GUI open source tools to control voltage curves, memory clocks, power limits and so on.

And while that is actually quite fan to do and tweak it that way I'm pretty confident that majority of users worldwide are not into such tweaking when they can simply drag things left and right on Windows in the official software and, if there is anything that goes wrong, there is always restore defaults option.

Quote from: A on May 23, 2023, 08:31:01Technically, the #1 OS on the planet today is Android
I definitely agree with you and it's what I meant to write initially 👍 But considering that modern Windows does not exist anymore on mobile devices such as phones and tablets and Trollminator NikoB talks specifically about Windows being dead, I chose to mention only PC numbers.
Posted by A
 - May 23, 2023, 16:30:12
Quote from: NikoB on May 23, 2023, 10:28:05
Quote from: Neenyah on May 23, 2023, 00:45:32Ah damn, if only they knew about your wisdom; so much money lost for not listening the great NikoB 😥 Read this please: reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/13fhxkm/comment/jjvakiw/
Now you want to argue with me about the market and investments? I'm already funny. Intel shares are now below their nominal 1997 levels. If we take into account the devaluation of the dollar over 25 years, then Intel shares are 3 times lower than the real price levels of 1997. Good luck investing in the bankrupt Intel, which in fact is being pulled out of a complete fiasco only by state subsidies.

Uhm, you are aware stock splits are a thing right? When stock prices get too high, companies split their shares so that more people can afford to buy shares. Intel split their stock in 1997, 1999 and 2000. And if I remember correctly, their stock gives dividend
Posted by NikoB
 - May 23, 2023, 10:28:05
Quote from: Neenyah on May 23, 2023, 00:45:32Ah damn, if only they knew about your wisdom; so much money lost for not listening the great NikoB 😥 Read this please: reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/13fhxkm/comment/jjvakiw/
Now you want to argue with me about the market and investments? I'm already funny. Intel shares are now below their nominal 1997 levels. If we take into account the devaluation of the dollar over 25 years, then Intel shares are 3 times lower than the real price levels of 1997. Good luck investing in the bankrupt Intel, which in fact is being pulled out of a complete fiasco only by state subsidies.
Posted by A
 - May 23, 2023, 08:31:01
Quote from: Neenyah on May 23, 2023, 00:45:32Or AMD + Linux with AMD's comically bad Linux support?
AMD now has excellent Linux support. Just cause he is bashing intel is no reason to bash AMD.

QuoteAh. So there's a new kid in the block. FreeDOS? 😆 macOS with their tremendous 17.8% worldwide market share (which is, naturally, far more than Windows with 62.7%)?
Technically, the #1 OS on the planet today is Android
Posted by Neenyah
 - May 23, 2023, 00:45:32
Quote from: NikoB on May 22, 2023, 11:26:23I think the market has already come to understand that they no longer need Intel + Windows.
They need M1-M2 Macs + macOS? Or AMD + Linux with AMD's comically bad Linux support?

Quote from: NikoB on May 22, 2023, 11:26:23M$ is indeed well invested in other areas so far, but its real monopoly in Windows, the most widespread OS on planet Earth, has come to an end.
Ah. So there's a new kid in the block. FreeDOS? 😆 macOS with their tremendous 17.8% worldwide market share (which is, naturally, far more than Windows with 62.7%)?

Quote from: NikoB on May 22, 2023, 11:26:23Like the story of Intel, a highly unprofitable company for shareholders for 25 years.
Ah damn, if only they knew about your wisdom; so much money lost for not listening the great NikoB 😥 Read this please: reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/13fhxkm/comment/jjvakiw/
Posted by NikoB
 - May 22, 2023, 11:26:23
I think the market has already come to understand that they no longer need Intel + Windows. M$ is indeed well invested in other areas so far, but its real monopoly in Windows, the most widespread OS on planet Earth, has come to an end. Like the story of Intel, a highly unprofitable company for shareholders for 25 years.
Posted by A
 - May 22, 2023, 06:27:05
Quote from: Greg on May 21, 2023, 15:45:5932-bit compatibility is one of the strongest point of Intel chips. I still run several 32-bit applications which have never been ported to 64-bit architecture and they work just fine. In fact that backward compatibility (and the ability to run fairly large number of applications as a result) is the major reason I don't consider switching to Apple.
And you can still run them in an emulator. Or just buy old 32bit compatible chips. No reason to slow everyone down. Also 64 bit applications can take small amount of space too if they are coded properly to not leak memory

Quote from: NikoB on May 21, 2023, 13:58:52Once that happens, Intel+M$ will be where they are no longer a monopoly. Because it's only the support for the huge base x86 i32 when it keeps people on that platform.
It does not. First of all, most apps have migrated away from 32bit with most 32bit software no longer officially supported by most vendors. Intel keeps their monopoly through contracts with hardware vendors and investment into software libraries that are optimized for Intel features. Those keeping their old 32bit stuff running would be just fine running it in an emulator or just keeping their old hardware. Most of these are servers anyways running old code.

Today most people are running 64bit apps, not 32bit. And we are reaching the limit of die shrinks. It makes sense to eliminate old stuff to optimize gain

As for MS, they have long moved away from dependence on windows. Their money is now in Azure and Office.

Quote from: Hunter2020 on May 21, 2023, 21:54:54LOL. As if this is even news.  Windows 7 had the advantage of the 32-bit version very much faster than the 64-bit.  After Win7, all the OSes lost their 32-bit speed advantage.

The news is getting rid of the 32bit backwards compatibility would speed things up


Quote from: kek on May 21, 2023, 22:45:48I think this might be aimed at Server space rather than consumer. I doubt Intel is idiotic enough to kill one of their selling points just like that.

It should be aimed at all spaces. At best they can just keep an old node running for those who want 32bit apps which would generally be servers or workstation machines. And even then most servers will just choose to emulate, so niche workstations at best
Posted by _Stefan
 - May 22, 2023, 01:30:45
several people here say that intel needs to stick with 32b support, because it is their selling point, etc..
why so?
if whole industry moves to 64b, the the old applications can be still run via some software emulation, no? (something like DOSbox for old games for example).
Is that not so?
Posted by kek
 - May 21, 2023, 22:45:48
I think this might be aimed at Server space rather than consumer. I doubt Intel is idiotic enough to kill one of their selling points just like that.