Quote from: Bob Tubere on June 21, 2022, 11:52:41that's true of cameras not intended for espionage.

Do you regularly park a car in your conference room? I would be more worried about that TV on a wall than a car outside. Recording sound from a distance requires specialized equipment that is not exactly tiny. In this day and age, if you want to discus something really sensitive, you absolutely need something like a SCIF and thoroughly check everyone before entering (no phones, no computers, nothing). And yes, you should definitely avoid such discussions inside cars. Not only can the car or a phone be compromised, there are technologies like laser microphones which can pick up speech-induced vibrations of a glass from a distance. SCIF is designed to combat such leaks.

You can be worried about cameras when you want to conceal who you've met. That's the only scenario that I can think of right now where cameras in cars would be a problem. But as I wrote, many cars have multitude of cameras; not just Tesla. And some of them can even record (recording is typically retained in case of an accident).

"Picture quality tends to be poor and there is no sound." - that's true of cameras not intended for espionage.  However, those for espionage will not be placed where one can easily see.  In fact, Tesla cars should be banned altogether from China as well as countries outside the US, since it can also be a national security risk in much the same way Huawei's 5G equipment are to the US.  It is better to be safe than sorry.

Quote from: ariliquin on June 21, 2022, 02:51:22So in translation: The Chinese government hacks cars for espionage purposes and are aware of the risks, leading to a sound policy to exclude these vehicles as a very real risk.

Many cars have cameras. I think my primary car has more than six of them. And it's not a Tesla. But I don't really see how external cameras could be that useful for espionage. Picture quality tends to be poor and there is no sound. I'm not buying this.

Hands-free systems, on the other hand, can be used to spy on occupants. And if there is an internal camera for gesture control or to monitor whether driver is paying attention, that could be used as well (but I think sound is more important, picture would just complete it). And it's complicated by the fact that even if a car is properly designed, HF is going to be on the risky side of the fence. Because there is BT involved, there is a phone involved, those are sources of threats. Those are exactly the things that have to be isolated from critical systems of a car. At best, you could devise an indicator that HF is active in a way that cannot be remotely bypassed.

Tesla uses cameras to autopilot their cars which has lead to car accidents.  Theres only so much info digital cameras can pick out from the surroundings.  Meanwhile, cars that use lidars to auto-pilot are much safer and offer the car computer AI a better grasp of the immediate surroundings.  This is why self-driving solutions like from Huawei based on lidars are way superior to anything Tesla ever developed.

Tesla wouldnt have this problem in China if they had based their self-driving on lidars instead of cameras.

So in translation: The Chinese government hacks cars for espionage purposes and are aware of the risks, leading to a sound policy to exclude these vehicles as a very real risk.

Similar to the US Government banning telecommunications equipment that can be hacked as a real risk, at least their own direct experience validated this for them.