Quote from: DeviceFix on December 21, 2020, 22:53:13
@S.Yu,

Carrier locks via firmware and SIM lock have been around for a very long time.  Were you just introduced to wireless phones yesterday?  If not, you have no understanding of why there are businesses that are for profit.  There is no price-fixing at all levels of the wireless industry, be it wholesale or retail. 

You%u2019ve managed to invade a discussion about restrictions placed on all carrier subsidized phones, into a rant about market prices, which you don%u2019t understand at all.  I%u2019m no scumbag, I have a store to operate and with it, much overhead expense and responsibilities, liabilities and investment goals to meet in order to remain profitable and in business. 

You should pipe-down and understand that you don%u2019t understand the business side.  As a consumer, you may think you want everything at the lowest prices or for free and without restriction.  You%u2019re misguided or at worst unable to afford much.  I wish you greater fortune and success in the future.

The arrogant a** not only self-righteously asserts that consumers are responsible for paying his bills, but assumes superior intelligence to others such that he doesn't pay attention to counterargument to his preaching.
NO. To hell with your overhead. To hell with your investment goals. If somebody is able to undercut your pricing, they deserve more business passing on savings to consumers.

>a discussion about restrictions placed on all carrier subsidized phones
You're still calling it subsidized. By now I think most moderately knowledgeable consumers should know that carrier "subsidized" phones are never cheap because the plan they're bound to is bad enough that it simply amounts to paying for the phone at or very near MSRP in installments aside from the data, while given a few months phone prices could drop by 30%(Samsung as a typical example) through unofficial channels well before carriers actually start to discount the device.

>Carrier locks via firmware and SIM lock have been around for a very long time.
And they could be unlocked remotely via a call to the carrier. Now tell me, great historian of wireless phones, of a previous case of a carrier physically gluing shut a sim slot.

>you have no understanding of why there are businesses that are for profit
I fully understand but I'm against paying for their broken model full of expenses that are none of my concern like licenses, store rent, salespeople, I need none of that, just the product I want for the lowest price possible, preferably straight out of the factory without warranty. Conversely, if I can't circumvent those expenses for a particular product, I try to maximize my money's worth by taking my time in the store, getting the salespeople to do research for me, exchanging and exchanging until I get the perfect unit(lens variation, silicon lottery) etc.
You on the other hand are just a middleman non-essential to the product reaching the consumer siphoning off the system. People like you and companies like Apple maintaining a network of the likes of you is the reason one could be charged more for an "official" motherboard exchange than the street price of a whole device. Granted the device would probably be refurbished or second handed, but motherboard exchanges never guarantee that you get a brand new motherboard, even "official" ones. I'm frankly confused about people going to "official" repair centers dishing out >$400 for a motherboard that costs ~$120 from an unofficial yet reputable seller and could be replaced by DIY after watching a YT video. Same for batteries.
The ludicrous claim that "there is no price-fixing at all levels of the wireless industry" could only come from somebody with vested interest in siphoning from peoples' wallets in the exact same manner like you. If there's no price fixing, then buying online would consistantly be cheaper than buying from brick and mortar because we all know how insane the rent has gotten in cities not to mention the additional staffing. The reality is instead that most "official" channels all share the exact same pricing for the greater part of the product cycle regardless of the circumstances of their operations. That's textbook price fixing that anybody could see, and why buying online at MSRP is the last thing I would attempt. Obviously, it's even worse than buying at MSRP at a physical location because the difference in operating costs basically goes straight to the shareholders. Why on earth would I, a consumer, condone their price fixing by increasing their margins?!
And I haven't even started on distributor zoning or whatever it's called preventing the stock of one distributor from being sold in other regions. Obviously different distributors have different financial situations and probably got different deals on bulk pricing, which naturally means that retail coming out the other end should have variable pricing, but no, not only the lack of variation but this very system locking stock to their regions is in place for the prime reason of price fixing.
I hope you'll get a more upright job in the future that actually generates material value for the greater society, not just empty inflation.

@S.Yu,

Carrier locks via firmware and SIM lock have been around for a very long time.  Were you just introduced to wireless phones yesterday?  If not, you have no understanding of why there are businesses that are for profit.  There is no price-fixing at all levels of the wireless industry, be it wholesale or retail. 

You%u2019ve managed to invade a discussion about restrictions placed on all carrier subsidized phones, into a rant about market prices, which you don%u2019t understand at all.  I%u2019m no scumbag, I have a store to operate and with it, much overhead expense and responsibilities, liabilities and investment goals to meet in order to remain profitable and in business. 

You should pipe-down and understand that you don%u2019t understand the business side.  As a consumer, you may think you want everything at the lowest prices or for free and without restriction.  You%u2019re misguided or at worst unable to afford much.  I wish you greater fortune and success in the future.

Now that's fresh. Regional locking is nothing new, but not a physical "lock" until now.

Quote from: heffeque on December 21, 2020, 00:26:09
Just don't buy phones from your provider, always buy original version phones. SW support will also be much better (longer and quicker).

Damn right.

Quote from: DeviceFix on December 21, 2020, 14:50:37
This is the type of uninformed reporting that is published when little to nothing is understood about the prepaid wireless industry.  The reasonable methods employed by MNO%u2019s and MVNO%u2019s to secure their assets is looked at as unethical?  You%u2019re absolutely confused.

Those who want to circumvent the functionality and bloatware that%u2019s installed on carrier locked devices are in no way innocent of violating the terms of use.  Now you want to cry about it like some insolent child? 

Since you are uninformed (ignorant) about the way carrier locks are employed, try to Google it and begin to understand the reasoning.
Wireless carriers in ALL consumer markets %u201Cbrand%u201D the wireless devices in order to create accountability and control over the contractual use of the device. 

The devices are acquired from various manufacturers as %u201Cwhite box%u201D with only the original factory ROM, and when the carriers receive it, the reprogram the ROM with %u201Cbloatware%u201D that includes: branding (T-Mobile, Telcel, AT&T, Verizon, Simple Mobile etc.), network restrictions, regional restrictions, country restrictions, SIM lock and other restrictions based on the category and consumer market the wireless device was intended for.
What this means for you is that Telcel rightfully modified the phone to meet the restrictions it decided to place on that device model, before selling it to consumers.  If that meant; no access to dual SIM function, so be it!   

FYI:  All wireless phones that are manufactured with a dual-SIM tray are in-fact, factory unlocked.  Once a carrier receives it; they can modify it and install bloatware, before selling/leasing/contracting it to customers. 

Now you%u2019re smarter, because I%u2019m telling you to do the research instead of thinking that you have any valid arguments whatsoever....

- Repair Center Authorized Wireless Dealer, Deer Park, NY.

"Authorized Wireless Dealer"
Look at this scum so full of himself. I despise "authorized dealers" as it's synonymous with price fixing, overpriced repairs and parts and other anticonsumer practices.
Thanks to "unauthorized dealers", people can enjoy naturally fluctuating prices according to market demand and the age of products within their life cycles and buy whenever and where ever the price suits them, free from "official" fixed, perpetually overpriced services and parts and actually have choices regarding who to buy from, not to mention often greater freedom on how to use their own devices.

This is the type of uninformed reporting that is published when little to nothing is understood about the prepaid wireless industry.  The reasonable methods employed by MNO's and MVNO's to secure their assets is looked at as unethical?  You're absolutely confused.

Those who want to circumvent the functionality and bloatware that's installed on carrier locked devices are in no way innocent of violating the terms of use.  Now you want to cry about it like some insolent child? 

Since you are uninformed (ignorant) about the way carrier locks are employed, try to Google it and begin to understand the reasoning.
Wireless carriers in ALL consumer markets "brand" the wireless devices in order to create accountability and control over the contractual use of the device. 

The devices are acquired from various manufacturers as "white box" with only the original factory ROM, and when the carriers receive it, the reprogram the ROM with "bloatware" that includes: branding (T-Mobile, Telcel, AT&T, Verizon, Simple Mobile etc.), network restrictions, regional restrictions, country restrictions, SIM lock and other restrictions based on the category and consumer market the wireless device was intended for.
What this means for you is that Telcel rightfully modified the phone to meet the restrictions it decided to place on that device model, before selling it to consumers.  If that meant; no access to dual SIM function, so be it!   

FYI:  All wireless phones that are manufactured with a dual-SIM tray are in-fact, factory unlocked.  Once a carrier receives it; they can modify it and install bloatware, before selling/leasing/contracting it to customers. 

Now you're smarter, because I'm telling you to do the research instead of thinking that you have any valid arguments whatsoever....

- Repair Center Authorized Wireless Dealer, Deer Park, NY.

Just don't buy phones from your provider, always buy original version phones. SW support will also be much better (longer and quicker).

This is exactly the same as the oneplus 7T and t-mobile in america.

I purchased a 7T from oneplus website directly that was advertised as being t-mobile compatible. When i got it, it was actually tmobile locked, had a single slot sim tray, and 2nd sim was removed in software.

Changing to international rom and buying a dual slot tray solved this, but isnt an easy option for many users.