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Topic Summary

Posted by: TheTechHead
« on: November 25, 2020, 16:38:36 »

Well it is definitely a pyramid, but there is no "scheme" of any kind I can see. Scheme would mean coordination, and right now it is just more people getting to know it on their own, thats all. Just as I started to track it a little bit a few months back.

I have never invested in any bitcoin. Currently I am even more satisfied with the equity market than any crypto. The correlation is anyway high so I am good for now. I simply looked at the history and advancements in the past 6 months and whether any explosion will happen or not is anyones guess. But the possibility is fascinating and I am very interested to see how governments and the world would deal with it.
Posted by: A
« on: November 25, 2020, 15:55:42 »

1.  Re that bitcoin is nothing more than a scam. Well this kind of comment reinforces that its still not too late to buy. Reflects the general mindset which is slowly changing. Again people has to do 30mins research from official sources and go beyond what the media is highlighting all the time. Scam is memorable of course therefore I am not surprised thats all you remember when you hear the word bitcoin. Obviously in fiat money there are way more scams and the government can actually track down bitcoin very well, see silk road.

2. Re "nothing backing it". What is backing fiat money these days? Gold reserves are in decline and money being printed, elegantly called quantitative easing. See countries where cash bills are being swept up on the street, becoming worthless. The use case of bitcoin of course. Amazingly low transaction costs, almost instant transactions, independence from central control, store of value, fixed supply, liquid market, financial inclusion, ever growing acceptance at vendors just a few things to consider. Just do the research.

3. Re regulators on crypto. Seems like an assumption but its not in their interest to destroy it, i am not sure they would be even able to, being independent. But trading on well known marketplaces is already heavily regulated and more regulation would be a welcome addition to crypto.

4. The 51% attack is basically impossible to do, skip articles and check science papers.

5. Re quantum computers... This silverdoctors website.. please check a known website/source. I just read the quotes from the full google interview and Google itself says they are quite far to break any encryption, they are not even sure its possible/scalable. Only reused p2pkh addresses would maybe at risk in a futuristic scenario (25% of initially mined bitcoins), see Deloitte research. Also the bitcoin stack can be upgraded to resist quantum computers, bitcoin is not a fixed technology.

6. Goverments already released their own crypto. Changed nothing and never will given it would defeat the purpose of being fixed supply and independent/decentralized.

7. What do you mean legalize crypto? It is legal. Unless you are from China or India where the government does not want to lose financial control and rather forbid trading.

8. Re crash is imminent. Look, whether it goes up or down right now, try to understand the value. You might not even have to ever worry about the price, as you can use bitcoin directly to buy almost anything and probably everything in the near future.

1) I've done more than 30 minutes of research in bitcoin, hell I've tried bitcoin all the way back before it was "popular". Look I get it, you need to scam more people into bitcoin so your own bitcoins can go up in value like most pyramid schemes.

2) What backs fiat currency is the country itself. The moment the US dollar or the Euro collapses is the moment all bitcoins become worthless anyways. That is the difference between gold and bitcoins, gold can survive a total economic crash, bitcoins can't. (bitcoins can't even make it through a power outage)
As for the low transaction costs of bitcoin, lol. Wait till the paper trail increases, the transaction fees will only go up. Even more so if people wish to deal with fraud which is much more difficult with crypto. Being able to track it down isn't same as getting it back. It can go dormant for decades or exchanged into other crypto. And it is extremely difficult to deal with small time fraud issues. I've had a fraud case with my credit card over 200 bucks, they refunded it with 1 phone call. Try doing that with bitcoin, no one is gonna go tracking people for that kind of sum. So to make small time payments possible and consumer assurance you need escrow which have higher fees then credit cards.


3) They will destroy it if they feel it threatens central banks. Why would any country give up its ability to control its currency? They only allow it cause they are making money on it in the short term, at one point they will 100% crash it after they got enough money and leave average people hanging.

4) As someone with over 40 years of programming experience, I assure you the 51% attack is possible. If  you want to 51% attack the entire network, sure that would be difficult. But 51% attack an intranet is easy.

5) The point is the risk exists, and it goes without saying the computers they have are better than what they tell the public. As for upgrading the stack, lol, yeah good luck with that. Trying to get everyone on the same board is what is most difficult.

6) You are talking about small governments which have worthless currency. I am talking about governments with actual power who will ban all other crypto then their own.

7) In the US, which is considered the global currency, the only legal tender is the US dollar. Anything from bitcoin to giftcards or paypal is viewed as nothing more than "cash equivalent" but not legal tender (Even when you buy things in bitcoin, often times its simply converted to US dollars). So government can constitutionally ban bitcoin whenever they please.

8) Crash is imminent means people will lose a ton of money on the crash. And there are only 2 reasons people are into bitcoin, 1st one is illegal activity and fraud, the 2nd reason is to make money on the pyramid scheme. The moment the value of bitcoins stops growing, it becomes worthless to those trying to make money on investing into it. Even you are here peddling bitcoins cause you need to scam people so your bitcoins go up, the more fools you can convince the more value your "investment" is worth. Which means it is worthless. Bitcoins by nature can NEVER become a true currency. It is nothing more than a pseudo stock with nothing backing it.







Posted by: TheTechHead
« on: November 25, 2020, 08:06:36 »

1.  Re that bitcoin is nothing more than a scam. Well this kind of comment reinforces that its still not too late to buy. Reflects the general mindset which is slowly changing. Again people has to do 30mins research from official sources and go beyond what the media is highlighting all the time. Scam is memorable of course therefore I am not surprised thats all you remember when you hear the word bitcoin. Obviously in fiat money there are way more scams and the government can actually track down bitcoin very well, see silk road.

2. Re "nothing backing it". What is backing fiat money these days? Gold reserves are in decline and money being printed, elegantly called quantitative easing. See countries where cash bills are being swept up on the street, becoming worthless. The use case of bitcoin of course. Amazingly low transaction costs, almost instant transactions, independence from central control, store of value, fixed supply, liquid market, financial inclusion, ever growing acceptance at vendors just a few things to consider. Just do the research.

3. Re regulators on crypto. Seems like an assumption but its not in their interest to destroy it, i am not sure they would be even able to, being independent. But trading on well known marketplaces is already heavily regulated and more regulation would be a welcome addition to crypto.

4. The 51% attack is basically impossible to do, skip articles and check science papers.

5. Re quantum computers... This silverdoctors website.. please check a known website/source. I just read the quotes from the full google interview and Google itself says they are quite far to break any encryption, they are not even sure its possible/scalable. Only reused p2pkh addresses would maybe at risk in a futuristic scenario (25% of initially mined bitcoins), see Deloitte research. Also the bitcoin stack can be upgraded to resist quantum computers, bitcoin is not a fixed technology.

6. Goverments already released their own crypto. Changed nothing and never will given it would defeat the purpose of being fixed supply and independent/decentralized.

7. What do you mean legalize crypto? It is legal. Unless you are from China or India where the government does not want to lose financial control and rather forbid trading.

8. Re crash is imminent. Look, whether it goes up or down right now, try to understand the value. You might not even have to ever worry about the price, as you can use bitcoin directly to buy almost anything and probably everything in the near future.
Posted by: Jesse
« on: November 25, 2020, 00:27:15 »

silverdoctors.com/headlines/world-news/mike-adams-googles-quantum-computer-close-to-cracking-all-cryptocurrency-with-256-bit-encryption-including-bitcoin/

Oh the carnage when the first whale gets cracked.  Should be happening in 2021.
Posted by: A
« on: November 24, 2020, 21:35:04 »

Well, bitcoin price increased by almost 50 times from 2015 year end to 2017. People always think it is far fetched for the price to increase so much, until it gets there. So many people said it will never go to 20k again, here we are, again...

Even another 50x increase would not be unique at all, look at the S&P 500 index, which increased 100x in 20 years. An index which everyday people not even know what it is or how to invest in, also equities which in general were not new, most investors were already on board. Bitcoin is finally a completely new asset class and one which every single people on earth can invest in, so if this boost happens, I would not be surprised.

People just need to do the research, what is bitcoin good for (30 mins). Also understand how their own savings are losing value by central banks issuing more and more money. All other assets classes are already inflated and buying on their peak is incredibly risky, but Bitcoing being new and not yet having all investors on board bears very good potential and some of the famous investors even consider it as an excellent store of value on the long term.

Crypto is nothing more than a scam pushed by hackers and the black market. Most of bitcoin and other crypto is ran by forcing people to buy it through ransomeware and a pyramid scheme. Anyone participating in bitcoin and other crypto is doing nothing more than helping push criminal activity.

There is 0 potential in bitcoin. Sure like the stock market is operates a lot like a stock, but with nothing backing it, it is a stock that is far more likely to crash.

And the whole notion of bitcoin posing any issue to central banks is a joke. The central banks are allowing crypto because they can make a quick buck on it, the moment they want there are multiple ways to destroy the current crypto. And in doing so everyone will lose their money.


1) 51% attack against bitcoin is easy to do. The whole notion that you need 51% processing power is nonsense, you only need to isolate people in an intranet for a short period of time to cary out a 51% attack.

2) A quantum computer would instantly destroy most crypto like bitcoin

3) The US government's constitution lets congress decide what is legal and illegal tender. They can simply make bitcoins and other crypto illegal and get all ally nations on board.

4) Even under the optimum scenario that the governments would legalize crypto, it would generally be through the government releasing their own crypto currency. In which case, all other crypto will collapse.

Effectively, Bitcoin is like a ship that is about to sink and the only question is when. In the short term you can make some money off it if you don't mind helping criminals, or you can lose all your savings as a crash is imminent. But in the long term, it has no future.

 
Posted by: TheTechHead
« on: November 24, 2020, 18:24:57 »

Well, bitcoin price increased by almost 50 times from 2015 year end to 2017. People always think it is far fetched for the price to increase so much, until it gets there. So many people said it will never go to 20k again, here we are, again...

Even another 50x increase would not be unique at all, look at the S&P 500 index, which increased 100x in 20 years. An index which everyday people not even know what it is or how to invest in, also equities which in general were not new, most investors were already on board. Bitcoin is finally a completely new asset class and one which every single people on earth can invest in, so if this boost happens, I would not be surprised.

People just need to do the research, what is bitcoin good for (30 mins). Also understand how their own savings are losing value by central banks issuing more and more money. All other assets classes are already inflated and buying on their peak is incredibly risky, but Bitcoing being new and not yet having all investors on board bears very good potential and some of the famous investors even consider it as an excellent store of value on the long term.
Posted by: Redaktion
« on: November 24, 2020, 16:56:37 »

Bitcoin continues its fast road uphill with a new peak reached in a day that started with a low value of around US$18,000. However, everything went smoothly and in just a few hours the well-known cryptocurrency had managed to hit a new milestone by climbing all the way up to a value of US19,287.54.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/US-25-000-by-the-end-of-the-year-Bitcoin-has-reached-US-19-000-already.505808.0.html

 
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