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Posted by Pricing
 - Today at 16:49:19
@hmm yee, only a 5070M,

Which is still good performance to be fair but main issue is that it suffers same problem as halo. It's like a $4000+ machine getting a M5 Max chip which makes it not worth it in end. Just like halo isn't worth $2000 for rtx 4060m performance, when you can get it in laptops for half the price, and extremely high quality built dgpu laptops for $500 less.

This is a story as old as time. The reason why igpus/APUs never take off. Whenever there is one worth it, it's obscenely priced.

Quote from: nsklaus on Today at 13:29:23apple hardware is kind of good and appealing

Except for the keyboards, genuinely why I've skipped on them for the past 10 years. Neo might actually be better in this regard, since apparently it uses a different one that isn't standard to the typical apple approach(?)
Posted by nsklaus
 - Today at 14:40:33
- controllers support is flaky, works sometimes and sometimes not, and will have weird issues here and there.
- apple remove features people use and rely on, for example a few years back it was announced that x86 32bits support was being removed, all of a sudden tons of real native mac games stopped working. now apple announce it will remove x86_64 (64bits) support too which was provided by rosetta translation layer (x86_64 <-> arm64), so goodbye crossover and general support for running x86_64 windows games (it was already a pain, since no vulkan, and outdated slow opengl).
- administration of mac system is a pain, even using root account doesn't let you tweak the system as you see fit, because everything is signed and protected, some system partition are mounted readonly, you just cannot modify anything. there a convoluted way to achieve it, but it involve disabling many security oriented features and by doing so the OS will work in a degraded state. some stuff will refuse to work if you disable security too. so you can tweak, a very little amount only, and at high costs, and it will need time and effort to achieve and results will not be satisfying anyway.

macos started to become a very restrictive OS around "mavericks" or "el capitan" release if i remember correctly. and since then the situation is deteriorating release after release, year after year. each new macos worse than the previous. and now it also looks very ugly and you can't do anything about it. everything is rigid, buggy, flaky, poor design, even in base OS functionalities, for example:
tasks switching / windows switching and fullscreen support, those were never fully finished and are a pain to use. no control over the windows stack, you cannot send a window to the back of the stack for example or many other base functionalities of windows managers like that. many inconsistencies, windows don't look the same (different corner round radiuses), picking a window corner to resize it is a pain (resize spot not being easily found often time you must fiddle to find it and resize a window). some windows will have a title bar some won't. mixed past and current UI, inconsistent look and feel. alt-bab (cmd-tab) switching windows while some apps are fullscreen will not work correctly (it will fail to bring you correctly back to the fullscreen app or fail to bring you back to the desktop where that other app is.. many little problems everywhere like that even in base windows management stuff.

that's apple. it's been going on for years. the system will get in your way, preventing, restricting, failling, bugging on you in many ways, most of the time for most of the tasks, every day. it's stable and doesn't crash or anything like that but behave poorly because of many questionable design decisions and sloppy implementations and often time never fully finished.


Posted by nsklaus
 - Today at 13:29:23

the real problems aren't solved. brute force helps in many cases yes but,
even the game that seem to work will still have issues:
weird gfx glitches here and there, like water surfaces not showing up in games or other distortions of polygons, or even again weird cases like no-gore in fallout, or no facial animations in that other game etc .. it's not just a thing of the moment. it's something that's always here. it's been like that for a decade. and it's improving but barely, in such a slow pace that in another decade it probably won't have solved much of the issues yet.

apple whole software stack generaly speaking, is in a terrible, horrible, i mean unbearable state, at least in my opinion.
- macos latest UI/UX "liquid a**" is a mess and look very bad.
- base macos weight 150gb (fatberg laced with lard marinating in bloat sauce)
- no bios (macos masquarade as a 150gb bios)
- can't fully boot on external drive (internal drive with macos is necessary, remove that and the machine won't boot anything not even proper bootable external drive.)
- macos has very bad interoperability, it doesn't support other filesystems like etx4, btrfs, ntfs, etc..)
- no proper way to uninstall apps and packages , junk accumulate by nature in ~/Library/ and routine manual maintenance cleaning necessary and is a real chore. (just throwing an app bundle to the trash is not enough).
- OS has many shortcomings, doesn't support many standards (bad old opengl, no vulkan)
- many half-cooked features that were left in half finished state.
- macos "evolved" into a very restrictive OS. you can't even choose your own font to display the system. apple devs are very lazy, sloppy, there tons of bugs, and for all the features they couldn't be bothered to implement or finish they did put restrictions instead so you are forbidden to this or that everywhere for everything. no changelogs, no acknoledgements, no fixes, for years and years.. yes even for glaring bugs in your face everyday. "it's the apple way" ..

apple hardware is kind of good and appealing, but beware, software stack is in terrible state.
Posted by hmm yee, only a 5070M
 - Today at 10:13:58
On the one hand we have this, which looks good:
Quote from: notebookcheck.net/Apple-M5-Pro-M5-Max-GPU-Analysis-M5-Max-GPU-on-par-with-the-GeForce-RTX-5070-and-faster-than-Strix-Halo.1246060.0.htmlApple M5 Max 40-Core GPU
Apple MacBook Pro 16 2026 M5 Max   
4392 Points

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5080 Laptop
Lenovo ThinkPad T16g Gen 3 RTX 5080   
4022 Points

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5070 Ti Laptop
Schenker XMG APEX 16 MAX   
3953 Points
3dmark.com/search Steel Nomad:
4060 (notebook): Average score: 2262
4070 (notebook): Average score: 2702
5070 (notebook): Average score: 2985
5070 Ti (notebook): Average score: 3843
5080 (notebook): Average score: 5189
4070 SUPER: Average score: 4635 <- build a desktop PC for much cheaper.

But on the other hand we have this, which looks bad (5070 Laptop performance in actual games):
Quote from: notebookcheck.net/Apple-M5-Pro-M5-Max-GPU-Analysis-M5-Max-GPU-on-par-with-the-GeForce-RTX-5070-and-faster-than-Strix-Halo.1246060.0.htmlCyberpunk 2077 2560x1440 Ultra Preset (FSR off)

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5070 Ti Laptop
Schenker XMG APEX 16 MAX   
82.9 (69.5min - 107max) fps

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5080 Laptop
Lenovo ThinkPad T16g Gen 3 RTX 5080   
74.4 (62min - 94.6max) fps

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5070 Laptop
Lenovo Legion Pro 5 16IAX10, RTX 5070   
68.3 (58.1min - 85.8max) fps

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5070 Laptop
Razer Blade 14 2025   
65.9 (55.3min - 84.1max) fps

Apple M5 Max 40-Core GPU
Apple MacBook Pro 16 2026 M5 Max   
64.3 fps

Still, a new 5070 Laptop is like twice the price of a used 4060 Laptop (this one one may call cheap).
Posted by Yuriy
 - Yesterday at 21:39:55
Are you insane?! It shows performance of a cheap gaming laptop.
Posted by Redaktion
 - Yesterday at 13:27:26
Although the Apple M5 Max is not meant for gaming, the presence of a 40-core GPU on the SoC makes it a prime candidate for gaming. To that end, a YouTuber has tested the Apple MacBook Pro with the M5 Max in a slew of Windows games. The results are impressive considering that the M5 Max had to play the games through an emulation layer.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Despite-emulation-Apple-M5-Max-brute-forces-its-way-to-smooth-AAA-Windows-gaming.1260498.0.html