Quote from: unfair comparison indeed on Yesterday at 09:56:42

Quotedesktop ai/llm sure the 8060S is the pick

Yes, Strix Halo wins, but it's also an unfair comparison:
Panther Lake (up to 96 or 128 GB RAM?): 153.6 GB/s = 128-bit * 9600 MT/s / 1000 / 8.
Strix Halo (up to 128 GB RAM): 256 GB/s = 256-bit * 8000 MT/s / 1000 / 8.

It looks like Panther Lake goes up to 96 GB, not 128 GB, RAM:

Quote from: intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/245526/intel-core-ultra-x9-processor-388h-18m-cache-up-to-5-10-ghz/specifications.htmlMax Memory Size (dependent on memory type)    96 GB
Memory Types    Up to LPDDR5X 9600 MT/s
Max # of Memory Channels    2

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Quote from: unfair comparison indeed on Yesterday at 09:56:42(both top comments) Someone asked the real question:

QuoteWhy can't they have a low core count CPU but still keep the full iGPU?

Answer by another:

QuoteUpselling

So,

Quote from: intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/245526/intel-core-ultra-x9-processor-388h-18m-cache-up-to-5-10-ghz/specifications.htmlTotal Cores    16
# of Performance-cores    4
# of Efficient-cores    8
# of Low Power Efficient-cores    4
Total Threads    16

is having all these cores really necessary for gaming? Maybe this is where INTEL could save on costs, and also, INTEL, stop upselling this iGPU, because if the APU is too expensive, people will simply get the 4050 Laptop instead.

PS: Suggestion: Unless you really need a gaming laptop (because you game when you travel, as one would have nothing better to do than gaming, when traveling, right?), one can build a desktop gaming PC for like half the price (or less), that is also still quite a bit faster (or much faster for the same price), which automatically makes it much more repairable and you can attach and, due to it being faster, actually utilize a 360 Hz (or more) QD-OLED monitor, too.

I still think it is irrelevant considering ram prices. Maybe next year ram prices will become sane and we can see how Medusa Halo does vs Nova Lake.

Quote from: Joe on Yesterday at 21:28:34In video he says benchmarks in this video using 25W.

Thanks!

I see it now, @ 5:38. So, 25w Arc B390 is roughly equal to a low power rtx 4050 @ ~55w. Interesting..

Total system power is likely to be much higher. Hopefully, we will get this info as well soon.

Quote from: Dear Author on Yesterday at 04:17:02Please state the power draw. I'm gonna presume it uses around no more than ~50w when gaming as that's what other benchmarkers have reported.

In video he says benchmarks in this video using 25W.

Good point, when comparing, it should be noted, whether it's 5600 MT/s unsoldered SODIMM vs soldered LPDDR5X-8000 on the Strix Point/Halo (tho, I haven't seen any SODIMM Strix Halo configs yet) APUs.

In general pretty exciting it this would find its way in handhelds to acceptable prices. Having xess as upscaling would also be a great win over current FSR2.
Now let's just hope Linux driver support will be good.

Quote from: Alex on Yesterday at 12:41:00AMD Radeon 890M is in an disadvantage here because the laptop it is tested on is with the slow DDR5-560 memory.

Quote from: amitp on Yesterday at 15:30:58Lenono thinkpad with Ryzen HX 370 has ddr5 5600 ram, with LPDDR5x 8000, 890M should be 10-15% more performance.

No need to compare with any laptops. The fastest implementation of the 890m to date comes from ROG Xbox Ally X so just use that as a point of reference for how the average future Gorgon Point laptop will perform.

It's the best because strix point by design is unbalanced. Too many cpu cores for a small igpu. But the Z2E somewhat resolved this as it's 8 cores instead of 12. Also likely is the most efficient rdna3.5 APU making it interesting to compare against efficiency wise.

Lenono thinkpad with Ryzen HX 370 has ddr5 5600 ram, with LPDDR5x 8000, 890M should be 10-15% more performance. Also, with Ryzen HX 470 with LPDDR5x 8533 and with 200 mhx bump in gpu freq 3100 mhz the gap will be less. I think HX 470 should deliver 30-32 FPS in same test.
Panther lake still wins because HX 470 is a dud update.

Yeh, the top end 8060S halo config in a NUC form factor with unlimited power is a lot faster.

For those unaware, if you type in "8050S" in the add additional device search box, you can get results for lower tier strix halo config in laptop form factor. And to save anyone else time, it's about 63 fps on a zbook ultra g1a while using ~100 watts in cyberpunk. This I believe was tested while connected to charger (they don't usually tend to test gaming on battery power), so on battery mode with reduced power limits, the results will be slightly worse than that 63 FPS result, I'm guessing.

Quote from: Citizen_not_Consumer on Yesterday at 10:15:15HP Ultra Ga laptop is limited to 55 watt total package power

I think you're right, on battery it does limit to 55w. But most people don't test on battery either so there's that as well.

All I know is last time I had this laptop, the battery wasn't great and it got quite warm during gaming.

I'm expecting this to be better since they're claiming lunar lake efficiency (which we know is best in class for x86) but obviously we'll have to wait for further tests on this.

Quote from: Citizen_not_Consumer on Yesterday at 10:15:15Also does anyone know the price of the Lenovo laptop with the top panther lake?

Yoga Slim 7i Aura Edition should be starting $1499. Not too sure on the exact config but I assume it's one with 32GB and higher tier chip because companies like to sell their overpriced stuff first before releasing their more budget mainstream offerings.

Quote from: please_fix_it on Yesterday at 13:02:11while Intel Panther Lake can do gaming and others power demanding tasks, it wasn't design for it - those CPU's were design to be in the thinnest laptop and handhelds with minimum while using the minimum watts,

Of course it was designed for gaming. That's been the biggest focus of the launch event. A lot of time was spent designing a the larger iGPU that standard PTL-H doesn't have. It was just designed to do these things within a cost structure and design (see same motherboard as the rest of PTL) that meets what OEMs are asking for, as well as a power budget to not compromise on the daily use battery life of the device.

Quote from: please_fix_it on Yesterday at 13:02:11If you want to compare, limit all computers to the same power limits, or wait for the performance CPU's (with 8 or 12 P cores - unlike those H CPUs with only 4 cores)

That'll be part of the full reviews in a couple weeks, but there are no 12P core chips coming out. Not that that actually matters for gaming. Darkmont is more than capable enough to be the 5th+ core when gaming. Any higher end chips than H series are just desktop chips (which since there is no desktop PTL, there is no PTL-HX), but those come with their own issues (worse battery life, larger heavier cooling) that have kept them as a niche for years now.

Quote from: please_fix_it on Yesterday at 13:02:11...
If I would summary what I want to say: - those CPUs were design to work for different purpose:-

Ryzen AI Max+ PRO or CPU+ RTX4050 - for 80+ WAtts
AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX (like 370\470)  - for 54-80 Watts
Intel Panther Lake                - for 17-38 watts (it can run with higher average but with minimal performance improvement)

BTW, the price of  Intel Panther Lake would probably be cheaper than Ryzen AI Max+ PRO (still can't find a laptop for less than 3000 USD)

Not accurate:
HP Ultra g1a laptop with 395 Halo is operating at 55 watts total cpu+gpu, Asus Z13 flow with 395 Halo depending on the profile, between 30-70 watts.
Also Z13 Halo is around $2000 and newly announced Asus TUF A14 392+8060s will be below $2000 plus several chinese designs e.g. SixUnited XN77 Laptop and table Halo designs.

Top panther lake here 388H with iGPU there is no way products to run at 17-38 under stress. Expect top halo sweet spot around 55 watts long run (under stress), and 80 watts short bursts.

while Intel Panther Lake can do gaming and others power demanding tasks, it wasn't design for it - those CPU's were design to be in the thinnest laptop and handhelds with minimum while using the minimum watts,

If you want to compare, limit all computers to the same power limits, or wait for the performance CPU's (with 8 or 12 P cores - unlike those H CPUs with only 4 cores)

just for reference, the "HP Z2 Mini G1a" (with Ryzen AI Max+ PRO 395, Radeon 8060S) in this comparation consumes 195.1 watts for Cyberpunk 2077 ultra with Load Maximum of 245.4 watts acording to this site,  while the laptop "Lenovo IdeaPad Pro 5" (with the new Intel Panther Lake use power adapter of 65-100 watts),

why wont you try run a comparation with the PCs limited to 17W-30W for the all CPU+GPU, if you do Intel Panther Lake would probably win most of the test - and I'm not sure if Ryzen AI Max+ PRO 395 could even run properly- because it wasn't design for those power limits...

If I would summary what I want to say: - those CPUs were design to work for different purpose:-

Ryzen AI Max+ PRO or CPU+ RTX4050 - for 80+ WAtts
AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX (like 370\470)  - for 54-80 Watts
Intel Panther Lake                - for 17-38 watts (it can run with higher average but with minimal performance improvement)

BTW, the price of  Intel Panther Lake would probably be cheaper than Ryzen AI Max+ PRO (still can't find a laptop for less than 3000 USD)

AMD Radeon 890M is in an disadvantage here because the laptop it is tested on is with the slow DDR5-560 memory.

These benchmarks show that the performance gap between top panther lake and strix halo is larger than I thought at 100%.

Also the statement that Halo is more expensive and more power hungry is not entirely correct, since the HP Ultra Ga laptop is limited to 55 watt total package power and costs double that other Halo offerings.

Also does anyone know the price of the Lenovo laptop with the top panther lake? How the author says it is cheaper??

If

QuotePanther Lake: 153.6 GB/s = 128-bit * 9600 MT/s / 1000 / 8.
Strix Halo: 256 GB/s = 256-bit * 8000 MT/s / 1000 / 8.

So, Strix Halo has a 66% higher memory bandwidth.

is correct:
In the Cyberpunk test, Strix Halo performs not 66 % faster, but 106%..interesting.