Quote from: A possible solution on Yesterday at 12:28:42

Quote from: Only 8 GB VRAM on Yesterday at 09:31:36Sorry VALVE

Can any of those so called alternatives be packed into a 6 inch cube chassis that they're aiming for?

I wonder if eGPU is possible via M.2 NVMe slot since it doesn't seem to support Thunderbolt?

If so, I guess you could go that route if you really wanted to. Don't like when people mention eGPU on handhelds/laptops that cost $1350+ but it might make sense here, if they price it right (~$500).

M.2 to Optolink adapters are available. (as are USB4/TB) Thus an eGPU MIGHT be connected to the Steam Machine if needed.

However, given that MOST CURRENT laptops are shipped with <=8GB VRAM it would appear that the 'mere 8GB VRAM' is simply NOT the issue that some are making it out to be.

While a Steam Machine is NOT in my future I may pick up a decent AMD desktop GPU card and eGPU dock for some Linux gaming.

Quote from: Only 8 GB VRAM on Yesterday at 09:31:36Sorry VALVE

Can any of those so called alternatives be packed into a 6 inch cube chassis that they're aiming for?

I wonder if eGPU is possible via M.2 NVMe slot since it doesn't seem to support Thunderbolt?

If so, I guess you could go that route if you really wanted to. Don't like when people mention eGPU on handhelds/laptops that cost $1350+ but it might make sense here, if they price it right (~$500).

Quote from: Only 8 GB VRAM on Yesterday at 09:31:36, but to be able to actually call it custom silicon, you could have at the very least tried to make it at least 10 GB VRAM.

You seem not to understand the word 'custom.'  'Custom' has nothing whatsoever to do with specs; all it means is, this is a chipset that has been designed specifically for this device, which is based on previously released platforms, but is its own thing.  This is what lots of consoles do to dial in a precise performance point.

QuoteOne of the worries of buyers is with the 8GB of VRAM on the Steam Machine's semi-custom AMD RDNA 3 GPU.

Based worries.

After years of proofs that 8 GB VRAM are not enough anymore, and things getting worse as games demand more VRAM (or hosting your favorite local AI / LLM), VALVE comes out with 8 GB VRAM..

Sorry VALVE, but to be able to actually call it custom silicon, you could have at the very least tried to make it at least 10 GB VRAM.

Here is how (and each solution would make it more expensive, but 8GB VRAM is just a no-go) (current hw: 128-bit memory bus width GPU chip / 32-bit per GDDR5 chip = 4 chips, 2 GB each):

• Using higher GDDR6 density: 2.25 GB per chip * 4 chips = 10 GB VRAM (uncommon density)

or

• Using higher GDDR7 density: 2.25 GB per chip * 4 chips = 10 GB VRAM (since GDDR7 is the successor, maybe the memory manufacturers would be "kind" enough to make such densities)

or

• Using higher GDDR7 density: 3 GB per chip * 4 chips = 12 GB VRAM (3 GB chips are already being used in the 5090 Laptop, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_RTX_50_series#Mobile) (and will be used in the SUPER refresh GPUs in 2026)

or

• Using a wider memory bus width: 32-bit per chip * 5 chips, 2 GB each = 160-bit memory bus width GPU chip (this would be a different class GPU, one that would be approx. 33% faster (1.33 = 160-bit/128-bit) than the current one

Quote from: Indyp on November 16, 2025, 00:42:34People buy cheap PCs because they CASUALLY play games on them, don't want to invest in graphics cards/other components that take $ (premium) time and effort to install.  They probably do other work/browse/etc on the PCs, so gaming isn't a priority.

So Valve making an assumption and gamble here that people just have ~$600 to invest in a gaming machine (at lower performance and functionality than current consoles) is quite the stretch.  Not putting Netflix or other Streaming apps on it also limits the market here, many people that have consoles want those options.

Really weird to bring up streaming services here. This box, as you mentioned, is just a PC. It runs a web browser just fine, and all those services... work in a browser.

You can literally just boot up Chrome and watch Netflix on it with no problem. And if you want the experience of launching it from your Big Picture gaming hub, you can just add a shortcut. Same with Prime video, etc. It doesn't take much setup to make it so I can launch a game right next to my launcher for Netflix.

I've done it on my Steam Deck, and you having one makes me think you should know this. It is JUST a PC. It can do literally anything that any other PC can.

You mention it gathering dust as opposed to your PS5, and that's fair, but it's been the opposite for many. Being able to carry a game around with me and sleep/resume it as time allows has given me far more chance to game than taking over the single TV in my house for dedicated chunks of time.

Quote from: neckbeard on November 16, 2025, 09:22:40

Quote from: GeorgeS on November 16, 2025, 00:04:40Gee, a whole whooping %4.3 of folks have a RTX3060 so it is deemed 'most popular'

Well, yeah the pc dgpu market is fragmented, composed of many different models. Getting 4%+ has always put you on the top 3 in steam hardware GPU surveys.

Quote from: Indyp on November 16, 2025, 00:42:34It's enough to not bother.  The battery life is also kinda meh

Too many compromises on current pc handhelds. Maybe with next gen, they will be addressed.

Quote from: Nemesis7884 on November 16, 2025, 02:20:56Wish they had a second version / option that was a bit more expensive but on like 5070ti level.

People are upset with valve about this but honestly the issue is AMD. They don't have anything better in mobile dgpu segment.

Starting from the top:

• Regular people who play PC games hang onto their hardware MUCH LONGER then what a DIY 'Gamer' might. Even in 2025 many games released with GTX1060 as the minimum.
• The Nintendo Switch2 gets fairly decent battery life BECAUSE it is fairly under powered hardware. A constant 10-50W drain requires lots of Wh and there goes the trade off - size+weight vs handheld/portable
• Actually IMHO AMD IS part of the problem, but not for the reasons you think. I'd imagine that with the agreements they have with BOTH Sony and Microsoft (and even Valve) for custom APU's AMD has to walk a KNIFES EDGE with product releases. Notice that they seemingly DON'T release +4C8T APU's with even decent iGPU's (let alone their best performing 'high end' iGPU's) as OEM's could take the devices and compete with AMD's custom silicon customers.
  
  Note here that Valve picked a Ryzen5 coupled with a mobile dGPU. Surely the 'best bang for the buck' that does not run afoul with AMD's custom APU customers.
  

First of all, it's preposterous to say 8G VRAM is some horrible option in 2025.  We get it, you're an enthusiast who always needs to play on 'Ultra', but the Steam machine isn't for "My games are always on Ultra graphics" people.  You have your 16G giga-card, that's cool, have fun.  My 2080 with 8G VRAM does just fine, there is no game I can't play with at least decent quality.

Secondly, I dunno what's with the title... the Steam machine will not run "all games."  It's a Linux based system... it runs a LOT of games, but not "all."

The machine is fine if it had 10GB of video memory or better. I wouldn't care about the rest of the specs, it's not meant to be high end.

However video memory IS a critical area when 8GB is simply not enough to get reasonable texture quality settings in a tonne of games. Let alone the ray tracing levels settings they keep saying it is supposed to support. You're probably talking 7GB available while running the OS and GUI. That's less than the 2020 consoles have when all their overheads are accounted for.

The machine has no real future with such constrained video memory. 10GB was the absolute bare minimum to last a few years and they failed.

Quote from: GeorgeS on November 16, 2025, 00:04:40Gee, a whole whooping %4.3 of folks have a RTX3060 so it is deemed 'most popular'

Well, yeah the pc dgpu market is fragmented, composed of many different models. Getting 4%+ has always put you on the top 3 in steam hardware GPU surveys.

Quote from: Indyp on November 16, 2025, 00:42:34It's enough to not bother.   The battery life is also kinda meh

Too many compromises on current pc handhelds. Maybe with next gen, they will be addressed.

Quote from: Nemesis7884 on November 16, 2025, 02:20:56Wish they had a second version / option that was a bit more expensive but on like 5070ti level.

People are upset with valve about this but honestly the issue is AMD. They don't have anything better in mobile dgpu segment.

Quote from: Indyp on November 16, 2025, 00:42:34People buy cheap PCs because they CASUALLY play games on them, don't want to invest in graphics cards/other components that take $ (premium) time and effort to install.  They probably do other work/browse/etc on the PCs, so gaming isn't a priority.

So Valve making an assumption and gamble here that people just have ~$600 to invest in a gaming machine (at lower performance and functionality than current consoles) is quite the stretch.  Not putting Netflix or other Streaming apps on it also limits the market here, many people that have consoles want those options.

It's an interesting gamble, especially because it's being released presumably within 2 years of a XBOX/SONY console refresh.

I have a Steam Deck, and even with Deck compatible games, there is somewhat of a learning curve for every new game versus the same experience on a console.  It's enough to not bother.   The battery life is also kinda meh, I ended up playing a few Deck games and then put it in my closet and play my PS5 Pro instead. 

Steam has Cheaper games as it's bread and butter.   Quite the gamble for them.

The thing is, Valve's market with the Machine is NOT DIY enthusiasts. They can always build their own with a 9800X3D and RX 9070 XT with the SteamOS recovery image.

Their target is specifically console converts who want to break away from the PS/Xbox ecosystem and people who want an affordable pre-built PC who doesn't have a myriad of issues like we saw on GamersNexus' videos, and also has console functionality. And not to mention, being able to OWN it! Not to be stuck with the dystopian You Will Own Nothing that MS and Sony's shareholders dream of.

Maybe you can afford to do it DIY now, but remember the next few years will be grim for DIY components as silicon meant for CPU, GPU, RAM and Storage will be gobbled up by AI Datacenter deployments. Valve is not going to have the same issue as their older gen silicon is build on older nodes that are cheaper in the long run.

And finally, with the risk of pissing off the neckbeards, the lower-end specs are a great idea. Because this will behave like a downward pressure on the market, forcing game developers to actually optimize their games, not just do sloppy things and then demand gamers to use an RTX 5090 to have the game playable.

I hope the Steam Machine succeeds. Not because I plan on buying one, I already have a very powerful laptop hooked to a 48" OLED TV so it already pulls the double-duty jobs of the Machine. But the more Steam Machines are sold, the more interest is in contributing to Proton and therefore make Linux gaming first-class.

Wish they had a second version / option that was a bit more expensive but on like 5070ti level.

People buy cheap PCs because they CASUALLY play games on them, don't want to invest in graphics cards/other components that take $ (premium) time and effort to install.  They probably do other work/browse/etc on the PCs, so gaming isn't a priority.

So Valve making an assumption and gamble here that people just have ~$600 to invest in a gaming machine (at lower performance and functionality than current consoles) is quite the stretch.  Not putting Netflix or other Streaming apps on it also limits the market here, many people that have consoles want those options.

It's an interesting gamble, especially because it's being released presumably within 2 years of a XBOX/SONY console refresh.

I have a Steam Deck, and even with Deck compatible games, there is somewhat of a learning curve for every new game versus the same experience on a console.  It's enough to not bother.   The battery life is also kinda meh, I ended up playing a few Deck games and then put it in my closet and play my PS5 Pro instead. 

Steam has Cheaper games as it's bread and butter.   Quite the gamble for them.

Gee, a whole whooping %4.3 of folks have a RTX3060 so it is deemed 'most popular' and the GPU to equate or beat? LOL!!! (only 8GB of VRAM to boot!)

Sure, while the box I use THE MOST is powered by a mere GTX1650, I do have MUCH MORE capable GPU's & systems available. (why bother with them if they are not needed?)

It was a bit surprising that a 6C (assumed 6C12T) configuration was also the most popular however 8-12T appears to be 'enough' for 'most' games even in 2025.

It would be interesting to see how the available RAM plays out across the board - with 16GB being the most popular what percentage of folks are LOWER or higher at +32GB?

While it is hard to imagine that the Steam Machine is as good or BETTER THAN ~%70 of systems in Steams hardware survey but actual numbers don't lie.

Most PC Gamers ARE using fairly meager rigs to play games on.