Quote from: Andrea on Yesterday at 19:53:50...it's more nuanced than that.

The doubling of TFLOPs is if you use the dual issue capabilities of the rdna3 compute units, which most games don't use.

Same thing happened when we went from 680M -> 780M. We went from 3.4 to over 8 TFLOPs but performance difference between them in actual games was within ~10% margin. So it behaved more like a 4 TFLOP or half it's rated flops.

So yeah, this 7600M in steam machine might as well be 8.9 TFLOPs as that would be more accurate. It's slightly less powerful than the PS5 GPU, which is rated for 11 TFLOPs. The only thing is it has less vram which may lead to lower quality textures in games and is why some people gauge it to be between Xbox series s and ps5 (although it's a lot closer to the later).

Quote from: Andrea on Yesterday at 19:53:50...unless we suddenly change the way of reading data from one day to the other.

But that's exactly what they did on the ps5? NXgamer did a video about this, how the zen2 cores in that console perform closer to a windows pc in games with zen 3/4 cpu.

Now granted this steam machine won't be running windows which is super bloated but it's still going through proton translation layers and not going to be as efficient as bare metal native optimization.

I'm sorry...but looking at your 7600M page there is a theoretical peak of 90W and ~17TFLOP with 32bit FP. In this article you state that the Steam Machine has 8.9TFLOP and it's roughly 5x the Steam Deck when:

1. Valve Talks about roughly 6x in "real world" performance (whatever it means)
2. These estimates can't be applied to the TFlops of one device and just do 5x...it's more nuanced than that.

Another last bit...at 1080p and with competitive games the CPU is very important...in many games this machine will perform better than consoles, unless we suddenly change the way of reading data from one day to the other. Considering that Valve has no released any TFLOP data...either report the 7600M data or not make that comparison at all, it feels like a fabricated information at this point...

Quote from: Hotz on November 14, 2025, 11:37:31

Quote from: Worgarthe on November 13, 2025, 19:28:36The CPU is as powerful as a desktop Ryzen 5 7600, the iGPU is around a laptop RTX 4060, and RAM is upgradeable.

What do you mean with iGPU? It's a dGPU with dedicated, limited VRAM.

Yeah, my bad as that was a weird typo - I wanted to type mGPU as a mobile GPU, not "i".

Quote from: Hotz on November 13, 2025, 17:35:07Why did they not use an APU instead?

What you're asking for already exists, so I guess go buy one then? There's like over a dozen strix halo minipc's, such as framework desktop. They just cost 3x-4x more than this. I don't think it's worth paying that much more to have more vram.

Most the people playing games on deck aren't playing AAA but indie games and emulation which is mostly fine on 8GB.

though of course it's "integrated" by means of being soldered to the mainboard, like in a laptop. I'm just a bit confused because I associate the term "iGPU" with a graphics chips integrated in the CPU.

Quote from: Worgarthe on November 13, 2025, 19:28:36The CPU is as powerful as a desktop Ryzen 5 7600, the iGPU is around a laptop RTX 4060, and RAM is upgradeable.

What do you mean with iGPU? It's a dGPU with dedicated, limited VRAM.

Quote from: GeorgeS on November 13, 2025, 17:12:14Under powered? Yes/no/maybe debatable.

Lets face it, 8T/16G RAM is plenty for a Linux box to run games on and while 8G of vRAM might be limiting on some titles at some resolutions, the folks that are insisting on details+resolutions are buying high end hardware to begin with.

Obviously to just about everyone, the 'Steam Machine' is anything BUT 'high end hardware'. :)

Considering the ginormous catalog of PC games that might likely play fairly well on this device @ 1080P the Steam Machine could be an instant "bang for the buck" value vs Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo.

Added bonus is that it adds yet another 'off the shelf' Linux gaming system in the wild for the market to contend with.

This whole comment, yes. Plus the fact that Windows is an option and Valve provides all official drivers and support for it.

The CPU is as powerful as a desktop Ryzen 5 7600, the iGPU is around a laptop RTX 4060, and RAM is upgradeable. The only missing point is no USB4 40 Gbps (or Thunberbolt 4), but I can work with that limitation and I'm definitely looking forward to get one (judging Valve and their pricing strategy, it will be priced extremely competitively). Looks great, and if it's dead-silent as they claim - hell yeah, that's exactly what I want.

Quote from: A on November 13, 2025, 18:17:50

Quote from: jojoba on November 13, 2025, 10:00:49"What I would have liked to see would be cartridge gpus. In this way you can get most of the benefits of console gaming and pc gaming."

That would raise cost now and in the future because they would be forced to continue this 'cartridge' standard (and surely there would not be a new cartridge every 1-2 years, and before the CPU is too weak). The compatibility lifespan would anyways be short because in 5 years they would think something different. Better to use standard small graphics cards. There was for instance a really small lp version of 4060, on YT you can see videos of that slotted into like 4-5L cases.
They should have rather partnered with Framework, as I believe in Framework's upgrades longevity/compatibily (even though their desktop is not entirely upgradable, it's still a fine tuned HW). Either way, there is always a trade of. I'm really curious about the price, in comparison to a standard size/standard compononents mid-range PC...

The cartridge system doesn't need to be anything special, it could be same pci-e under the hood. Just make it so that they don't need to take apart to install it, and make it line up easily so that anyone can install it in 2 seconds.

CPUs are not the limiting factor, and you don't need a new cartridge every 1-2 years, maybe 3-4 years and they can do 2 cartridge updates during its lifespan.

Quote from: Gallo123 on November 13, 2025, 10:48:35Never going to work. People are too chained to the idea of specs just because it's a PC box. Put a screen on it like the Steamdeck and suddenly everyone forgets the specs.

It's all a matter of price, if they price it at break even because their money maker is the steam store for example.

Not to mention now that more and more studios are giving up exclusivity of games because exclusivity isn't financially worth it anymore. Competing with consoles is possible

Exactly.

Consider the OEM 'bean counter' logic on sales & marketing:

- if a 'console gaming system' costs $300-600
- if a 'bare bones PC' costs $300-600

then OBVIOUSLY (to the bean counters) something that could do BOTH is worth GREATER than the sum of the two functions when added together. (IE: bare bones 'Gaming PC' costing >$1200 MSRP)

Therein lies a HUGE HOLE that Valve might fill with their device as long as they have the pricing right.

Those that want 'high end' PC gaming will continue to toss multiple Killobuck$ at a 'Gaming PC' and those who wish to experience 'PC Gaming' on something better than a Steam Deck for a mere fraction of the cost of the 'high end' folks might opt for one of these new devices. :)
 

Quote from: jojoba on November 13, 2025, 10:00:49"What I would have liked to see would be cartridge gpus. In this way you can get most of the benefits of console gaming and pc gaming."

That would raise cost now and in the future because they would be forced to continue this 'cartridge' standard (and surely there would not be a new cartridge every 1-2 years, and before the CPU is too weak). The compatibility lifespan would anyways be short because in 5 years they would think something different. Better to use standard small graphics cards. There was for instance a really small lp version of 4060, on YT you can see videos of that slotted into like 4-5L cases.
They should have rather partnered with Framework, as I believe in Framework's upgrades longevity/compatibily (even though their desktop is not entirely upgradable, it's still a fine tuned HW). Either way, there is always a trade of. I'm really curious about the price, in comparison to a standard size/standard compononents mid-range PC...

The cartridge system doesn't need to be anything special, it could be same pci-e under the hood. Just make it so that they don't need to take apart to install it, and make it line up easily so that anyone can install it in 2 seconds.

CPUs are not the limiting factor, and you don't need a new cartridge every 1-2 years, maybe 3-4 years and they can do 2 cartridge updates during its lifespan.

Quote from: Gallo123 on November 13, 2025, 10:48:35Never going to work. People are too chained to the idea of specs just because it's a PC box. Put a screen on it like the Steamdeck and suddenly everyone forgets the specs.

It's all a matter of price, if they price it at break even because their money maker is the steam store for example.

Not to mention now that more and more studios are giving up exclusivity of games because exclusivity isn't financially worth it anymore. Competing with consoles is possible

I don't like it. Why did they not use an APU instead? Then there would be no complaints about the VRAM limit. Also cooling would have been easier and they could have fit into a HTPC half the height instead of a ... black cube of Mecca.

Under powered? Yes/no/maybe debatable.

Lets face it, 8T/16G RAM is plenty for a Linux box to run games on and while 8G of vRAM might be limiting on some titles at some resolutions, the folks that are insisting on details+resolutions are buying high end hardware to begin with.

Obviously to just about everyone, the 'Steam Machine' is anything BUT 'high end hardware'. :)

Considering the ginormous catalog of PC games that might likely play fairly well on this device @ 1080P the Steam Machine could be an instant "bang for the buck" value vs Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo.

Added bonus is that it adds yet another 'off the shelf' Linux gaming system in the wild for the market to contend with.

Quote from: Chuck007 on November 13, 2025, 02:57:38..until I saw the 8GB VRAM.  They should have released a higher end model.

It's a mobile chip. All AMD mobile dgpus come with 8GB. The desktop 7600 XT comes with 16 GB but that's not mobile. They're likely trying to keep this small and portable, just looking at the physical specs it's less wide than even a steam deck. Almost like a NUC pc.

They're likely trying to keep the costs down too. I'd wager AMD gave valve a not bad deal here, since the deck sold millions and did better than expected. Pretty much no laptop OEM used the 7600M so AMD probably has tons of unused supply and willing to give at a budget price.

Quote from: Gallo123 on November 13, 2025, 10:48:35Never going to work. People are too chained to the idea of specs just because it's a PC box. Put a screen on it like the Steamdeck and suddenly everyone forgets the specs.

Are they really? Zohran mamdani won on affordability. Steam deck sells well precisely because the way it's priced.

I personally like this affordable direction that valve is continuing on. Where the console competition is rising hardware prices they're doing the opposite it seems.

If they price this right, which I believe they will just looking at the parts chosen here, I think it could do well.

I don't think valve is going to go high end until their hardware marketshare is a bit more and they've resolved most of their online multiplayer anti-cheat issues on Linux.

Never going to work. People are too chained to the idea of specs just because it's a PC box. Put a screen on it like the Steamdeck and suddenly everyone forgets the specs.

"What I would have liked to see would be cartridge gpus. In this way you can get most of the benefits of console gaming and pc gaming."

That would raise cost now and in the future because they would be forced to continue this 'cartridge' standard (and surely there would not be a new cartridge every 1-2 years, and before the CPU is too weak). The compatibility lifespan would anyways be short because in 5 years they would think something different. Better to use standard small graphics cards. There was for instance a really small lp version of 4060, on YT you can see videos of that slotted into like 4-5L cases.
They should have rather partnered with Framework, as I believe in Framework's upgrades longevity/compatibily (even though their desktop is not entirely upgradable, it's still a fine tuned HW). Either way, there is always a trade of. I'm really curious about the price, in comparison to a standard size/standard compononents mid-range PC...

What I would have liked to see would be cartridge gpus. In this way you can get most of the benefits of console gaming and pc gaming.

End of the day, many consoles are about midrange pcs in terms of specs, it has been proven that for most games even a 5 year old cpu is almost as good as brand new cpu.

So instead of forcing people to buy pro versions of consoles if they want better quality, cartridge gpus can make most of the benefits of pc be available to consoles at a lower cost too.