Quote from: Huzo on Today at 13:08:40

Quote from: Hotz on Today at 12:36:51make a showcase with good graphics and performance on low-spec-computers

Uhh, The Finals and Robocop?

He's technically right but the problem is the studios that have the time, resources and money to do this don't need to be using his engine to begin with and just use their own custom engine.

The whole point of his engine is to make it faster to build / prototype a game for small indie devs which lack experience and have limited budgets. They don't know the inner workings of how to optimize UE5. So it's going to be difficult for that audience to do what he's asking them to do..

UE's market isn't indie developers, it is usually the mid sized studios or large studios who want to quickly make a remake without investing in their own engine.

indie developers will make less than 1 million a year in revenue, so UE doesn't even make a penny from them. So UE doesn't really care that much about indie as it makes them no profit. It is only there so that they get used to working with UE and use it once their studio grows or they get a job at a bigger studio.

Let us first FRAME this shall we? Many/most users WANT releases that show off if not PUSH their existing hardware. No?

Designers therefore START with everything INCLUDING the 'kitchen sink' in finding ways to push the highest end hardware available.

THEN when it is all said and done, they find ways to SUBTRACT details and effects so that releases can run on lesser hardware.

OK, sure more often than not this is a feeble task as there is to much 'baked in' to remove without breaking the entire game. :)

Gee, if only Designers/Studios/Publishers embraced a "modders mindset" wherein you start with low resolution assets & few (if any) effects and add to THAT after the fact?

(we have ALL seen great running games reduced to a crawl because of "add ons" that users added after release)


g.

Quote from: Hotz on Today at 15:24:19

Quote from: Huzo on Today at 13:08:40Uhh, The Finals and Robocop?

While both games run decently (even on iGPUs), consider this:

Their game levels mostly consist of abstract objects and buildings, and in a very confined space. There's hardly any terrain, detail foliage, trees, grass in them - things which would cause more trouble. Because of these missing things, they're not a good showcase. A showcase should have a bit of everything. Theoretically "Fortnite" has that, but when the performance is all over the place even on that game, it just shows again there's an issue with the game engine.

After a second look on "The Finals", I noticed much more foliage than I remembered. Interesting. So maybe that particular title is indeed better optimized...

Quote from: TruthIsThere on Today at 15:01:22...unfortunately it looks most users still don't care enough, or don't learn from it, still mindlessly throw money at every Unreal Engine Slop, every single time, and rather buy a new RTX 5090 instead of boycotting the Slop. It's sick.

Oh... you hit it right on the head! The "just throw raw power at it" mindset is a big reason NVIDIA grew from a ~$300B company; just a few years ago with no new major product releases; to nearly ~$4T today.

Sure, the AI frenzy helped... but the real tipping point was GPUs selling out in seconds. And that demand? It wasn't just coming from Elon, Meta, and the tech giants. A huge part of that wipeout came from the very same gamers now complaining about the #StutterShuffle in Unreal Engine 5.

They bought top-tier hardware expecting smooth performance, not realizing that no amount of GPU power can fully mask engine-level issues like runtime shader compilation and PSO stutter. The irony is extremely palpable.

Quote from: TruthIsThere on Today at 15:01:22there's no excuse on the dev part to release inferior products and expect for users to still support them and just overlook these serious issues in UE5 for years now. That's making it all about the dev; screw the customer(s).

Users do not give free money to devs because they like them or care more about the studio over their HARD EARNED purchase.

I don't know... unfortunately it looks most users still don't care enough, or don't learn from it, still mindlessly throw money at every Unreal Engine Slop, every single time, and rather buy a new RTX 5090 instead of boycotting the Slop. It's sick.

Quote from: Huzo on Today at 13:08:40Uhh, The Finals and Robocop?

While both games run decently (even on iGPUs), consider this:

Their game levels mostly consist of abstract objects and buildings, and in a very confined space. There's hardly any terrain, detail foliage, trees, grass in them - things which would cause more trouble. Because of these missing things, they're not a good showcase. A showcase should have a bit of everything. Theoretically "Fortnite" has that, but when the performance is all over the place even on that game, it just shows again there's an issue with the game engine.

Quote from: Huzo on Today at 13:08:40Uhh, The Finals and Robocop?

He's technically right but the problem is the studios that have the time, resources and money to do this don't need to be using his engine to begin with and just use their own custom engine.

The whole point of his engine is to make it faster to build / prototype a game for small indie devs which lack experience and have limited budgets. They don't know the inner workings of how to optimize UE5. So it's going to be difficult for that audience to do what he's asking them to do..

Yeah, but that's a "you" (dev) problem and these so-called low-budget (Indie, ect) studios knew this going in but they still pulled-the-plug on UE5 anyway. So, there's no excuse on the dev part (regardless of budget) to release inferior products and expect for users to still support them and just overlook these serious issues in UE5 for years now. That's making it all about the dev; screw the customer(s).

I betcha these same Indie devs, you speak of, would not spend their money on something that only works half-butt; and that should lead these devs to want to do better, from the start, and all parties just needs to stop blaming each other and either do better or close up shop.

Devs, and Sweeney, can't have it both ways. Poor products does not equals increase profits. Users do not give free money to devs because they like them or care more about the studio over their HARD EARNED purchase.

Quote from: Hotz on Today at 12:36:51make a showcase with good graphics and performance on low-spec-computers

Uhh, The Finals and Robocop?

He's technically right but the problem is the studios that have the time, resources and money to do this don't need to be using his engine to begin with and just use their own custom engine.

The whole point of his engine is to make it faster to build / prototype a game for small indie devs which lack experience and have limited budgets. They don't know the inner workings of how to optimize UE5. So it's going to be difficult for that audience to do what he's asking them to do..

Quote from: Hotz on Today at 12:36:51If he blames everything on the game developers, then he should make a showcase with good graphics and performance on low-spec-computers. I'm thinking of something with RDR2 visuals (which even runs decently on iGPUs).

Fortnite obviously isn't a good showcase, because of too stylized visuals (whereas people generally expect realistic looking graphics), and because many reports claim its performance still sucks.

Well, it's good to read some TRUE thoughtful solutions on NBR's comment section.

I agree with this proposal.

"The main cause is the order of development. Many studios build for top-tier hardware first and leave optimization and low-spec testing for the end."

Sweeney memory is short. When UE5 was first introduced, the first thing Sweeney's team made clear was that UE5 required "specialized" SSDs, ect was needed for "optimized performance"... now today, he wants to backtrack those claims?

Allllriiighty, then! 😏

If he blames everything on the game developers, then he should make a showcase with good graphics and performance on low-spec-computers. I'm thinking of something with RDR2 visuals (which even runs decently on iGPUs).

Fortnite obviously isn't a good showcase, because of too stylized visuals (whereas people generally expect realistic looking graphics), and because many reports claim its performance still sucks.