Quote from: Sam Woodward on Today at 01:15:56So, this seems like a clear violation of implied warranty and you cannot sell products that self destruct.  Their terms and conditions are coercive and illegal.  Where is the bright lawyer or consumer protection law firm that will start a class action suit?  I'll join!

The problem is class action lawsuits are a scam. The only ones who truly win are the lawyers. MS will hardly suffer anything as the class action lawyers will insure that consumers get minimum amount. Effectively, class action settlements are a way for lawyers and the company you are suing to work together to fleece consumers

The only way to truly hurt these companies is by not using their products.

Quote from: John Jefferson Edisson on Today at 03:15:26I still have my 2012 HP Envy gaming laptop i7 3rd gen on Windows 7. While it does it's job doing normal task, web browsing and working with documents.
Migrating to Windows 11 was supposed to be easy and help keep up with the latest browser and other software updates but no. Won't let me update because I don't have TPM on my machine. Like for the past 10 years it never had an issue without TPM.

I recommend moving to linux, you can get latest browser and other software.

If you really must stay on windows 7, there is supermium which is an attempt to port chromium to older windows. So you can at least get latest web standards.

A lot can be said about prebuilt computers, most of it not good, however one thing they do tend to come with is security featured deemed necessary for corporate buyers. One such thing being TPM modules. This means you can have TPM enabled in a modern OS like Windows 11.

The HVCI functionality requires driver support since it goes down to kernel level. Older AMD and nVidia drivers often lack this and you are greetered by a "Windows cannot load this device driver" error upon booting with such drivers and HVCI enabled.

I can however confirm that even going back to Haswell from 2013 it is possible to (apart from the CPU requirement) have a Windows 11 install that ticks all the boxes, Secure Boot, UEFI, TPM and HVCI. The later is thanks to a driver update from Intel back in 2020.

I still have my 2012 HP Envy gaming laptop i7 3rd gen on Windows 7. While it does it's job doing normal task, web browsing and working with documents.
Migrating to Windows 11 was supposed to be easy and help keep up with the latest browser and other software updates but no. Won't let me update because I don't have TPM on my machine. Like for the past 10 years it never had an issue without TPM.

So, this seems like a clear violation of implied warranty and you cannot sell products that self destruct.  Their terms and conditions are coercive and illegal.  Where is the bright lawyer or consumer protection law firm that will start a class action suit?  I'll join!

This has been very tumultuous. At first MS provided instructions on how to disable the requirements in the registry. Now, they have removed those instructions. So, it's unclear whether or not they are going to enforce this or not. A man in Cali has sued MS for the requirement as well. Personally, I was able to install a dedicated TPMS chip since my motherboard has the headers for it.

My issue is not TPM, it is the supported processor. All else is compliant (Surface Pro 5)

When are pc manufacturers going to ship new pc with Linux. Chrome does not require anything super fast. I use AI on windows 10 i7 dual core. The heavy processing is done on the AI side, not my computer side. MS is trying to sell windows 12...... When microprocessors speed reached 1.7 GHz. PC were fast enough ms office. Engineers  only need a i5 today. Most are not using cad apps. Engineers require power for a few apps Require a faster machine but 95% don't need anything other than i5. A $700 machine. Not a $1600. I said some require a $1600. I do see engineers using their $1600 machine for gaming. More power to them. I am starting to see 75% off. Thinking the machine should be $3-400 not $2000 with 75% off. What a joke.

i used windows 11 pro and also education, ok there are some advantages but linux mint and chromeos are faster and more reliable or everyday tasks. Linux mint being a most reliable office use os. chrome for things like email,other tasks normally used on mobiles. i dont use windows so much now and only use it to save my old PCs
from landfill. im looking at BR os a** an alternative once i can get around how to install it. for office use made easy use linux mint!

Just having TPM 2.0 is not the final pass/fail.  Windows 11 has other requirements like 8th gen or later Intel processors.

In fact, Windows 11 runs fine on 7th gen systems with TPM 2.0 or even older 4th gen systems with 1.2.

I have quite a few such machines, all identical and all running fine.  One of them still runs Windows 10 because I haven't bothered to update it. But there is no difference in performance or anything else between one i5-7600T running 10 and an identical box running Windows 11. They have TPM. It works.  They have plenty of processor and memory. Everything is great.

The limitations are all just because Microsoft said so. And that's kind of stupid.  Linux is a totally viable option for every one of my PCs except one. And that's an app issue, not an OS feature keeping me.

Either Microsoft can allow me to use my perfectly capable hardware the way I see fit, or they can get bent. There's no reason to do anything else.

Windows 10 supports but doesn't require TPM2.0, and it is pretty secure without it. So what is really driving these hardware requirements? The hardware manufacturers wanting to sell more PC's. Performance of Windows 10 is significantly better than Windows 11, yet there has been hardly anything changes other than a bloated taskbar and Start Menu. And extra features and services no one asked for.

When you consider that Windows 11 Enterprise LTSC does not require TPM 2.0 you realize it's not really about TPM.

Quote from: LarryG on August 19, 2025, 22:10:48I cannot afford a MAC or I'd try it.

Try to get a base M4 Mac mini, it's often on sale for $500-ish, yet it offers insane value and exceptional performance. 256 GB base storage is enough (it's a desktop already, just add fast external drives to it when you get a chance).

I have toyed with Linux since the 90s. I first bought a laptop with Red hat Linux 9.0, a technological piece that took a lot of learning and effort to use, I ditched it for Win XP but left that one alone and started using Linux Mint Cinnamon and Ubuntu. Other machines graduated from 98SE to XP, to Win 7, to 10 and now my survivers are Win 10 and dual boot Win 10 w/ Linux Mint Cinnamon. I bought one Win 11 laptop and an Acer Chromebook. The Win 11 is a slug and I have had to reinstall 3 times now, still a slug. The Acer Chromebook is the fastest, no problem machine of all. Linux, of course! Windows has been losing my loyalty except for gaming. I cannot afford a MAC or I'd try it.

Quote from: Richard King on August 19, 2025, 19:10:20I managed to update my lap top to Windows 11, but was not happy with the result.So I bit the bullet and have installed Linux Mint, and am very pleased I did!

The machine is faster than it ever was on Windows 10, and I haven't used Windows at all for more than a week - thank you Microsoft for making me switch away from your products!

 I won't be coming back!

Richard King, Cambridge.

Thank you for the info!

"For now, users of older systems should note that upgrading to Windows 11 without TPM 2.0 is possible but not officially recommended." -- what will happen? so we die???