I did in my first post, which is where it's all from.

If you don't pay for software, it doesn't really matter whether it's boycotted or not. BDS is about targeting and affecting companies bottom lines because that's the only language they understand, money. Linux distros are free.

It's related because I was responding to the OP, who was upset at Microsoft's current decision making in recent years with regards to windows and just providing even further justifications if what has already been said in this thread wasn't reason enough.

Windows is so inexplicable intertwined with azure AI services with copilot and recall telemetry that not even sure doing this completely gets rid of it all.

The fact that you need to debloat for a product that you paid for. The fact that Microsoft are firing their own employees that are protesting against MS's involvement in this illegal occupation apartheid. The fact that they've layed off thousands within the Xbox gaming division. Don't say it doesn't relate to this all since apparently Xbox = windows now. The fact that windows games are now running better through a proton Linux compatibility layer than running natively under windows.

This is company is a joke with zero long term vision goal.

They seem unwilling or unable to have the time and resources to fix any of the core actual issues of windows that most people care about. Funny isn't it?

They bought way too many expensive Nvidia hopper GPUs and now realising that no windows user wants AI service subscriptions shoved down their throats. Literally selling their excess Azure server infrastructure capacity to the IDF to make their money back.

Quote from: Complicit on July 19, 2025, 20:40:231. Please provide a link to a source, like I did.

2. Linux isn't a corporate entity. It's a kernel.

3. I would like to remind you that this is a Microsoft related article.

1. You did not provide a source. No links included.

2. Linux is used by corporate entities, and used for military operations. Fact.

3. This article is about debloating Windows 11 using Microsoft Tools, not your dumbass propaganda.

1. Please provide a link to a source, like I did.

2. Linux isn't a corporate entity. It's a kernel. If you wish to name and shame bad actors using Linux, then you should name the actual actors / companies (e.g. Google, Amazon etc) that are complicit in the atrocities. But anyway, if someone uses a free and open source kernel for nefarious methods, it can't really be helped, it is after all out there for anyone to use. I would like to think multi trillion dollar companies using it's own private and closed source software should be held to a higher standard. It's not as if they would go broke tomorrow and didn't have a choice but to profiteer from the militarial industrial complex out of pure sheer greed and nothing else.

3. I would like to remind you that this is a Microsoft related article. Even if you did have a case (strong doubt), how is this even somewhat tangentially related to the main article at hand?

Quote from: Complicit on July 19, 2025, 17:38:47"Microsoft is perhaps the most complicit tech company in Israel's illegal apartheid regime and ongoing genocide against 2.3 million Palestinians in Gaza. Microsoft knowingly provides Israel with technology, including artificial intelligence (AI), that is deployed to facilitate grave human rights violations, war crimes, crimes against humanity (including apartheid), as well as genocide.

Breadcompanies are perhaps the most complicit industry in Israel's illegal apartheim regime and ongoing genocide. Breadcompanies knowingly provides Israel's military with bread, so the soldiers don't starve and can wield weapons to do genocide.

Most military operations rely on server structure (for AI) based on Linux servers. Thus Linux technology is complicit and responsible for Israel's illegal apartheid regime and genocide.

"Microsoft is perhaps the most complicit tech company in Israel's illegal apartheid regime and ongoing genocide against 2.3 million Palestinians in Gaza. Microsoft's complicity in Israel's apartheid and genocide is well documented, exposing its strong ties to the Israeli military, its collaboration with Israeli government ministries, and its involvement in the Israeli prison system, which is notorious for systematic torture and abuse of Palestinians. Microsoft knowingly provides Israel with technology, including artificial intelligence (AI), that is deployed to facilitate grave human rights violations, war crimes, crimes against humanity (including apartheid), as well as genocide. In light of the International Court of Justice's legally-binding rulings to prevent Israel's plausible genocide in Gaza, as well as its July 19 Advisory Opinion affirming Israel's illegal occupation and apartheid system, Microsoft has failed its corporate obligation to prevent genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. Microsoft, as well as its boards of directors and executives, may face criminal liability for this complicity.

Microsoft provides the Israeli military with Azure cloud and AI services that are crucial in empowering and accelerating Israel's genocidal war on 2.3 million Palestinians in the illegally occupied Gaza Strip. Microsoft's extensive ties with Israel's military are revealed in investigations by The Guardian with the Israeli-Palestinian publication +972 Magazine, demonstrating how the Israeli military turned to Microsoft to meet the technological demands of genocide."

Quote from: Scott on July 19, 2025, 03:13:24Windows isn't an operating system it's a steaming pile of ****.

I'm over it.

Microsoft and Windows can go to hell.

bdsmovement.net/microsoft

Isn't it so sad that there is an entire ecosystem devoted to unshitifying Windows? RevoUninstaller, Tiny11, Stardock, Starship, Directory Opus, TotalCommander, Everything Search, rclone, etc, etc, etc. I could go on but I don't want to type literally hundreds of software utilities all trying to fix something in Windows, or adding features that should already be in Windows. These aren't add ons to make the OS better: every OS has those. These are created to *fix* Windows.

The kicker was when OneDrive had a "sync" issue, started my deleting local files, then overwrote cloud files with 0-length versions. DO NOT TRUST YOUR DATA WITH ONEDRIVE. You have been warned.

Windows isn't an operating system it's a steaming pile of ****. I literally find a new bug in it daily. That is not an exaggeration.

I'm over it. Linux isn't all I want it to be: driver support for esoteric hardware, lots of fiddling, lack of key software (I'll have to run a VM).  But I've tried all three: Windows, Mac, and Linux. This time I'm returning to Linux for good.

Microsoft and Windows can go to hell.  The sooner Microsoft goes the way of Sun Microsystems, Enron, and Lehmann Brothers Bank the better. "Too big to fail"? One day there will be a world without Windows, and it will be a much better place.

Without distro and software names it's just a fiction story.

Quote from: GeorgeS on August 21, 2024, 08:10:13only a SMALL FRACTION of them were "installable"

Quote from: GeorgeS on August 21, 2024, 08:10:13Sadly while testing "Cyberpunk 2077"

The fact you installed Linux for Steam games tells a lot.
Bad OS, can't game. Poor mac is crying somewhere in the corner too.

Quote from: Goberman on August 08, 2024, 12:04:51GeorgeS, you've expected all drivers for everything in the world to be included? Windows also doesn't do that.

Well no and yes.

Most major OEM's submit their drivers to MS and HWQL and upon installing a MS OS the system will reach out to the MS driver Archive for any driver that might be missing in the install media.

So, no not all drivers/hardware might get drivers right at first but that is usually quickly rectified.

The other MAJOR problem with 'Linux' is whatever distro your using might not have a COMPLETE dependency tree for all the applications listed in the package & software managers but were not included in the distro.

So while attempting to load Linux on 3 different machines recently:

- one was limited to 32bit distro's and not all listed additional applications (even the 'package manager' claimed IT had a update that it could never resolve)

- 2nd box I tried 3 different distro's and finally settled on one that CAME WITH the featured applications I needed/wanted as the 1st 2 distro's had broken dependency trees for them

- 3rd box (taking notes from experience I had with the 1st two) I found one distro that advertised BOTH the applications AND GPU driver package I needed for it before installing

Last but not least the Linux distro that I'm going to play games on, while Steam lists MOST of my games library (>50 individual games) as "tested and validated on Steam Deck" only a SMALL FRACTION of them were "installable" (IE: Green Install icon on the Steam client).

Sadly while testing "Cyberpunk 2077" on 2 WINBOX's and 1 newly loaded Linux box I got:

- Best WIN10 GTX1070
- Can be good enough WIN10 GTX1650
- Barely playable Linux GTX1060

To conclude: Linux is not exactly 'plug & play' with hardware or software however one might be able to get a higher percentage of things working if your willing to tinker/tweak the OS/drivers & applications.

Quote from: GeorgeS on August 08, 2024, 07:50:34With a few installs of a few different distro's on some different hardware:

- MS 'Surface Book Pro', after a 2 different Linix distros which did not have drivers for everything, I just gave up and dropped WIN11 on it.

- Old dual core Atom 'netbook', runs Linux Mint fine - everything works.

- Fairly new 'elcheapo' with Cellron, came with WIN but booted right into a thumb drive with Linux. First distro did not have the WiFi drivers but another distro did. Everything works.

Moral of the story is that unless your willing & able to find drivers & tweak the system to your needs/desires if you have 'newer' hardware it might be 'hit and miss' on if a distro will work for you or not.

As mentioned, windows has the same issue if you do a fresh install and not use an oem disk with drivers preinstalled.

Generally the idea is this. If you have an old device, you can use a standard LTS distro with no changes. But if you have a new device, you are going to need a newer kernel than what LTS offers. Because the LTS distro is before that hardware was created.

Distros like Mint lets you upgrade your kernel to a newer one easily. But if you don't have Ethernet adapter to install it, Mint offers an Edge version that comes with a newer kernel built in

So all you need to do if you have new hardware is make sure you are on latest kernel, that is what matters. This solves 99% of hardware issues with exception of Nvidia. For Nvidia some distros preinstall it for you while others require you to do a bit more work. Hopefully the new changes that Nvidia made will make it more streamlined. But either way, with Ubuntu now bundling Nvidia drivers, all distros based on it will likely have it out of box as well

Of course I am not sure about things like Surface Book Pro because expecting Linux on a Microsoft device is weird in itself.

GeorgeS, you've expected all drivers for everything in the world to be included? Windows also doesn't do that.

With a few installs of a few different distro's on some different hardware:

- MS 'Surface Book Pro', after a 2 different Linix distros which did not have drivers for everything, I just gave up and dropped WIN11 on it.

- Old dual core Atom 'netbook', runs Linux Mint fine - everything works.

- Fairly new 'elcheapo' with Cellron, came with WIN but booted right into a thumb drive with Linux. First distro did not have the WiFi drivers but another distro did. Everything works.

Moral of the story is that unless your willing & able to find drivers & tweak the system to your needs/desires if you have 'newer' hardware it might be 'hit and miss' on if a distro will work for you or not.

Quote from: Real NikoB (old name bl) on August 02, 2024, 13:15:51My requirements far exceed the requirements of an ordinary person and a standard "housewife". All software options for Linux are a priori unsuitable for me, as are the risks, given the real impossibility of a full audit of code made by God knows who and how, which completely equates complex open source with closed proprietary software. And given that I am in the small category of IT developers capable of a real audit of 95% of the code. I have already had problems with freeware software written by irresponsible nerds.

Linux is far superior for IT work than windows

QuoteOnce again - if Linux were really user-friendly, comfortable in terms of UI, management and fully supported the latest hardware at the time of its release - no one would have used Windows for many years. After all, red-eyed nerds with foam at the mouth have been assuring for many years that all alternative software is there. Well, maybe only for housewives...

Linux does support the latest hardware when it is released. I know it is difficult for tech illiterate people like you to understand, but most hardware support is baked into the kernel. If you choose Ubuntu which is an LTS distro, it will not come with the latest kernel. Now if your device came with ubuntu, usually the developer would backport whatever hardware from latest kernel to make it work.

If you want the latest hardware, use the latest kernel, simple as that. Because the kernel predates the hardware.

To explain it to a noob like you who uses windows, it is like when you install fresh windows without the oem bloat and your laptop hardware doesn't work out of box.

Quote from: Real NikoB (old name bl) on August 02, 2024, 13:15:51And given that I am in the small category of IT developers capable of a real audit of 95% of the code.

Hahahaha another unemployed lowlife pretending to be a developer online.

Quote from: fgnfgn on August 02, 2024, 13:25:30You can say guy is a total noob if he doesn't even know Linux basically has all the same software today.

So true

Quote from: Real NikoB (old name bl) on August 02, 2024, 13:15:51My requirements far exceed the requirements of an ordinary person and a standard "housewife". All software options for Linux are a priori unsuitable for me

You can say guy is a total noob if he doesn't even know Linux basically has all the same software today.