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Posted by A Evans
 - Today at 18:34:50
Quote from: wzander on July 03, 2025, 13:15:56A 20% loss of battery capacity still leaves 80% of the original range. This is still more than enough range for most people. The article makes it sound like the car is unusable after a 20% loss of range which is ridiculous. 😂

At 20% loss of range means that some cells of the battery are degraded.
Posted by Chad
 - Yesterday at 08:36:16
There are other considerations besides just time and miles.  They should also look at total kilowatt hours charged and discharged. If I run sentry mode 24/7 even if I'm not driving, within a week it will use as much power as driving 100 miles. Add in cabin overheat protection, running your AC while you run in to the store, or cooling your car before you get into it.  You could end up with thousands of miles equivalent of battery use without actually driving those miles.
Posted by Mito1234
 - Yesterday at 07:44:21
Just checked, a 10 year old bmw x5 with 150k miles on the clock still cost $25-$35 thousands. People who state 10 year old cars are worthless are either blind or just pathetic.
Posted by Mito1234
 - Yesterday at 07:38:08
Quote from: 7257Scott on July 04, 2025, 00:03:01
Quote from: Felipe on July 03, 2025, 17:26:00Sure that a gas car will last 20 years
But how much money you will pay in those 20 years in gas and mechanical repairs?
People do not do the math and only think in 20 years but don't take into account the money spent on repairs in that same gas car! 👿😎🙏🤬🙈🐀👎🏿

Your absolutely correct. I know someone with a 2018 BMW, they spend on average $2000 a year making repairs and the car has under 100,000 miles. Ten years from now they will have a minimum of $20,000 invested in the cars mechanicals, mostly the cooling system ( most of the components are plastic ) . If they have anything major fail they will have spent well into the $30,000 range. All of a sudden that Tesla is much less expensive and easier to maintain.

EVs requires most of the maintenance as well, just except for the engine. It can ve even more as you need more expensive suspension to carry the extra weight, more often tyre changes which are more expensive then ice engine maintenance costs, you also have breaks, which again, need to be more expensive as you have a heavier car to stop. It's just the engine.

USAis different, but in Europe, 10 uear old cars with 150k miles on the clock are still worth a lot. The average lifespan of the car is between 15 and 20 years, depending where in Europe you live.
Posted by Mito1234
 - Yesterday at 07:29:20
Quote from: wzander on July 03, 2025, 13:15:56A 20% loss of battery capacity still leaves 80% of the original range. This is still more than enough range for most people. The article makes it sound like the car is unusable after a 20% loss of range which is ridiculous. 😂

Unfortunately, batteries degrade hyperbolically. When you reach around 70% you're very close to cells complete failure.
Posted by Mito1234
 - Yesterday at 07:27:20
Quote from: Ree on July 03, 2025, 11:07:48Hopefully by the time your battery fails a cheap replacement is available.

They were saying the same when first EVs showed up.
Posted by Just an Ariya owner
 - July 04, 2025, 21:57:29
Quote from: Donna peterson on July 04, 2025, 15:20:38Tesla posts many things mostly wrong. I have a 2021 tesla 3 LR. 120000. Battery degradation to maximum of 30%. When it will take any charge at all. The cost of the  battery is equal what they would give for trade in minus the battery repair, si basically ZERO value after 4 years. So disappointing. Not interested in spending over $60000 on a car. Sure no gas  but it eats tires. New set  every 20000 miles. I have solar and with charging the car  I don't save any money. The only advantage I've found is not having to go to gas station but even that is offset by sitting at a charging station. Going to all battery  is questionable
I find your statements questionable. Regardless, here are the facts.
You would be covered by the battery warranty, which is "8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period." Even if you neglected to take advantage of the warranty, a new battery is $16,000.
If you're driving 24,000 (mi? km?) per year and you're charging at home (you say you have solar, right?), that's only 100 miles per workday (assuming 240 work days per year). With 30% degredation, you would still get 175+ miles of real world range. How much supercharging do you actually do in a week?
Posted by Axuba
 - July 04, 2025, 19:48:39
The fact that gasoline engines are cheaper to maintain than EV's is Bull CRAP!
Posted by Axuba
 - July 04, 2025, 19:44:13
Quote from: Redaktion on July 02, 2025, 12:39:18
Tesla has now calculated the average lifespan of its vehicles. It takes fewer miles for a Tesla vehicle battery to degrade in Europe than it does in the US, according to the automaker's statistics.

You should realise that all of these statistics don't really matter as most EV's have the same battery longevity now, no matter what their marketing spin is! After 10yrs or 200k KM a gas-fueled car would have cost 3x to maintain than an EV and that is a fact. The resale value of a 200K km petrol car nowadays is practically ZERO .. So what the heck is the difference?
Posted by Donna peterson
 - July 04, 2025, 15:20:38
Tesla posts many things mostly wrong. I have a 2021 tesla 3 LR. 120000. Battery degradation to maximum of 30%. When it will take any charge at all. The cost of the  battery is equal what they would give for trade in minus the battery repair, si basically ZERO value after 4 years. So disappointing. Not interested in spending over $60000 on a car. Sure no gas  but it eats tires. New set  every 20000 miles. I have solar and with charging the car  I don't save any money. The only advantage I've found is not having to go to gas station but even that is offset by sitting at a charging station. Going to all battery  is questionable
Posted by Alton
 - July 04, 2025, 15:09:10
Interesting article. Tesla has a long way to go in the reliability rankings, consumer reports has them as one of the most unreliable vehicles you can get. A Corolla will go 300k miles with low maintenance.
Used EVs that aren't LFPs are essentially useless. It's nice starting with a "full tank" every morning, but that "170" is more like 150 and that is not enough for my daily shifts.
Posted by 7257Scott
 - July 04, 2025, 00:03:01
Quote from: Felipe on July 03, 2025, 17:26:00Sure that a gas car will last 20 years
But how much money you will pay in those 20 years in gas and mechanical repairs?
People do not do the math and only think in 20 years but don't take into account the money spent on repairs in that same gas car! 👿😎🙏🤬🙈🐀👎🏿

Your absolutely correct. I know someone with a 2018 BMW, they spend on average $2000 a year making repairs and the car has under 100,000 miles. Ten years from now they will have a minimum of $20,000 invested in the cars mechanicals, mostly the cooling system ( most of the components are plastic ) . If they have anything major fail they will have spent well into the $30,000 range. All of a sudden that Tesla is much less expensive and easier to maintain.
Posted by A
 - July 03, 2025, 21:21:22
Quote from: anan on July 03, 2025, 10:29:05The problem is - the risk of battery failure increases significantly after 10 years. Capacity degradation is still gradual but the cells will outright fail at a higher rate. A good ICE car can last more than 20 years with good maintenance. Here in EU in my country there is a significant market for cars with 200k km. And this in turn maintains their value for previous owners. A lot of the time this is their original owner. But a 200k 10 year old EV might be un-sellable.

99% of cars don't get good maintenance.

That said, to be clear what has a high chance of failing after 10 years isn't the battery but the sensors in the battery. Those batteries can be brought back to life.

But even then, after 10 years, other than a few specific models, most cars even ICE are almost worthless, any part failing would cost more to repair than the value of the car.


Quote from: Taree on July 03, 2025, 18:42:47Yeah, I'm calling BS on Tesla's statistics. My model 3 with 113k on the clock is at 79% of original capacity despite rare 100% charges. TBH I'll probably go GM for my next EV.

The statistics are AVERAGE. That means you can be below average or above average. Many factors can go into things, charging to 100% isn't that big of a deal even. It is keeping it at 100% that is more an issue. Other factors includes how hot the environment is, how you drive, if you have the Standard model or the long range model, which battery chemistry your model has and etc.

Though first you should try to re-calibrate your battery to see how much you are actually at. Sometimes the calibration can be off.
Posted by Monroe King
 - July 03, 2025, 20:29:41
Quote from: Kidamer on July 03, 2025, 12:31:11
Quote from: anan on July 03, 2025, 10:29:05The problem is - the risk of battery failure increases significantly after 10 years. Capacity degradation is still gradual but the cells will outright fail at a higher rate. A good ICE car can last more than 20 years with good maintenance. Here in EU in my country there is a significant market for cars with 200k km. And this in turn maintains their value for previous owners. A lot of the time this is their original owner. But a 200k 10 year old EV might be un-sellable.
dont think for a minute any engine dont have a much greater chance of failure over 200k miles yes some make it but there's also teslas with over 500k miles on original battery.
Posted by Monroe King
 - July 03, 2025, 20:27:17
Time is by far the biggest killer of EV Batteries.Followed by HEAT and then perhaps mileage. EV batteries don't want low miles! They want to be driven! Do not waste your car by not driving it! Drive it! Or lose all those miles you could have had.
 No way do I believe in a battery warranty for over ten years! That's either stupid or they do not plan on being in business in 15 to 25 years and they will just dissappear and resurface as some other battery company! That's still pie in the sky! Plan on your battery lasting 8 to 12 years and be ready from 8 years on. 8 to 10 years of trouble free miles! Totally worth it! Just buy your class of car for the next 10 years and drive it! If any EV gives you trouble in that 10 year period trade it off. You should not experience anything other than tires wipers and perhaps just a few nit picking things. Brakes should be good for 100,000 miles no more brake problems. Charge slow and discharge at whatever rate you want! But charge as slow as you can. Godspeed