Quote from: t4n0n on March 31, 2023, 14:40:31The CPI tracks the value of comparably valued goods. Depreciation of purchased goods has nothing to do with it.

All inflation indices are calculated on the basis of the same basket of goods and services. With the calculation of price changes for them exactly for a year. Somewhere it is more difficult to do for statisticians - for example, to track the same class of goods, somewhere easier. In general, this is a non-trivial task, in fact, practically not amenable to automation. With some period, the basket is changed when new classes of goods and services appear. So the CPI is a very relative and nebulous value anyway, like all stock indices (where Wall Street crooks are constantly shuffling the stock base to calculate - so the 1975 SP500 and 2023 SP500 have nothing in common, but the less the chart is drawn as as if it is based on the same stock pool base - pure fraud)

For example, chicken eggs cannot be faked, right? But even here you can feed the chickens with different foods and this will greatly affect the quality of the eggs. For example, the CPI will write that there have been no changes in the price for the year, and the quality has fallen from the point of view of buyers. And what is there to do?

Now imagine that goods are orders of magnitude more complicated than chicken eggs, where quality assessments are so complex that even the formalization of these characteristics is a whole science?

Well, this site, with varying success, is trying to formalize the assessment of the quality of laptops. Do you think they 100% coped with the task or not? ;)

The CPI is a rather stupid thing that does not take into account the degradation of the quality of goods and services, although formally they are of the same class. And the devaluation of the quality of goods on the planet is obvious to everyone who has lived long enough. The youth, the children, are just too naive and incompetent. They do not have significant historical consumer experience. They simply do not know how it was before and what quality it was before. They have nothing to compare with.

Therefore, all estimates of the devaluation of fiat currencies and inflation indices are essentially an anti-scientific profanation of the masses in order to control and manipulate the opinion of the population and its complaisance in fulfilling the desires of those in power and nothing more. Most of the population is easily controlled. Those in power (in "democratic" countries, especially) need that it has always been an overwhelming majority. And then you can spit on a smart and competent minority and its opinion - after all, under "democracy" the majority and its nominees have power, right? The control loop is closed...

Quote from: Eric Emerson on March 30, 2023, 19:06:22This article is misleading.  The motherboards I bought in 2020 are the same price in 2023.  My main computer I built in 2020 for $1,300 could be replaced for less than $1,000 today.  That's deflation, which hasn't changed in decades.

A computer from 2020 in 2020 is obviously not comparable to a computer from 2020 in 2023 - in the same way that a loaf of bread from 2020 in 2020 is obviously not comparable to a loaf of bread from 2020 in 2023.

The CPI tracks the value of comparably valued goods. Depreciation of purchased goods has nothing to do with it.

Quote from: Eric Emerson on March 30, 2023, 19:06:22This article is misleading.  The motherboards I bought in 2020 are the same price in 2023.  My main computer I built in 2020 for $1,300 could be replaced for less than $1,000 today.  That's deflation, which hasn't changed in decades.

Some components are really getting cheaper due to progress, for example, SSDs (although it must be borne in mind that they are rapidly degrading in quality, because 3D TLC, and even more so QLC, do not store data as reliably for a long time as MLC, and even more so the first SLC - i.e. one must also take into account the quality of a product similar in class), but a significant part has risen in price very much.

For example, I bought a pre-top HD4850 in July 2008 (at that time only the HD4870 was higher) for $225, now this level costs $899 (RX 7900 XT). Where is the deflation in your words? For 15 years, the dollar has depreciated by about 2 times (at best, for savers by 1.8 times), and the price of similar AMD video cards has grown by 4 times, i.e. the net increase in the price of a card equal to the HD4850 in class (they were even released as a pair with the 7900 XTX, just like the 4850/4870 in June 2008) minus the devaluation of the dollar, amounted to 2 times! This is a monstrous inflation in the purchasing power of the dollar, judging by the video cards. Is not it?

But have salaries grown 4 times over 15 years, nominally, in the US and the EU and other developed countries? If not, it turns out everyone was robbed by their employers. But of course, in reality, everything is much more complicated (inflation is calculated based on a huge base of goods and services, and not just video cards), which I wrote about above, although I can describe it all in much more detail, but then it will be a whole article on many pages.

This article is misleading.  The motherboards I bought in 2020 are the same price in 2023.  My main computer I built in 2020 for $1,300 could be replaced for less than $1,000 today.  That's deflation, which hasn't changed in decades.

I read a lot of people's thoughts before the First World War and the Second World War - it's amazing how similar the thoughts of those smart people are with the description of the pre-war situation and understanding of the picture of the world to come .. But they could not stop all this in any way. And now you can't stop. Moloch of fate is rapidly gaining momentum, because humanity has driven itself into this situation over the past 78 years, not solving a significant part of the problems in a civilized way, when it was still possible without a new meat grinder for resources and plots of land, with a strong will among citizens and those chosen by them politicians.

Quote from: Mr Majestyk on March 30, 2023, 02:51:46I'm surprised you didn't mention the Ukraine war and covid. > 70% of inflation is due to companies profiteering and hiding behind a multitude of excuses where many of those issues have greatly eased.

This is a complex problem. Capitalists always profit, without any moral considerations, when possible - on their employees, on buyers, especially if the antitrust authorities pretend that everything is fine, and monopolies or oligopolistic collusion reign everywhere. Most of them, about which the classic remark of the English civil activist Thomas Dunning was written long ago and which was borrowed by Karl Max in his Capital.

But here the big blame lies with the financial mafia and the power they bought in the bud in the US/EU and other "developed" countries that continue to print fiat candy wrappers in huge volumes, saving their filthy asses from the gallows, the guillotine and the electric chair.

Now, in view of the criminal Covid scam that killed millions of people around the world, the only purpose of which was to create and test the foundations of digital concentration camps at the macro level, how much the population will be ready to give up their rights and how really stupid they are (the tests were, in general, successful) - they were joined by a mass of accomplices who understand that if these scoundrels (financial mafia) fall under the distribution, then sane citizens will take care of them, including pharmaceutical companies and people in white coats who have become hired killers in all countries at once, summing up. This is such a huge problem that no one will solve it at the level of the global division of labor and the rapid growth in the nominal cost of labor and raw materials, wherever possible - where the sellers of this are ways to twist the arms of those who need it all to create a product or service and sell or resell.

The old world has come to an end, it is purposefully lowered into controlled chaos, where ordinary citizens must constantly be in a state where they have no time to think about anything other than animal survival - long live, first, the Weimar Republic, and then the war of all against all, while superfluous part of the population in all countries will not physically disappear to the pleasure of these strata, who really want to avoid responsibility for everything they have done. But it was the people themselves who chose the politicians who allowed all this, so the majority should blame themselves for what will soon happen to them.

This is a short but detailed part of the answer, why everything is bad and will only get worse. And no "AI" will save them (the population). Rather, all these systems will only bring the digital concentration camp closer.

So PC hardware prices are just another manifestation of global trends of growing stagflation and the impoverishment of significant sections of the former "middle class" against the backdrop of the destruction of global chains of division of labor, the growth of protectionism and attempts to create local self-sufficient production (obviously unprofitable) for greater control over key technologies, raw materials, goods and services for the population in anticipation of a big slaughter on the planet. We, humanity, can no longer avoid it, so it is better to live the last years in at least some rich life and pleasure. That is why many set off  in breaking bad. The smarter a person is, the more fully he understands where everything is going and how everything will end.

Quote from: ArsLoginName on March 29, 2023, 22:34:04Back then, overclocking was a thing. Today, whether it is Alder Lake/Raptor Lake or Zen 4, the top end processors already come almost overclocked to their limits for standard air and water cooling. Hence their extremely high TDP's. Good quality motherboards will be able to handle them at stock rated speeds for years.

As I already wrote, the difference between i7 Raptor for laptops with exactly the same consumption as my overclocked i5 Linnfield by 42% is only 3.5 times in AIDA64 Cpu Queen test and only 4.5 times in desktop ones.

Compare the performance difference between a 1995 and 2009 processors and between 2009 and 2023...

After 14 years, is this all that Intel and AMD can offer buyers? RIP x86.

Quote from: L on March 29, 2023, 04:50:55@Mr Majestyk
Thank you for the in-depth analysis of the market over the last few years and an "accurate" conclusion.

For everyone else:
Due to supply chain issues and semiconductor demand prices of manufacturing have risen for almost every component. There is no magic way they can be lowered over the short term.

Ah what excuse can we hide behind today I wonder? I'm surprised you didn't mention the Ukraine war and covid. > 70% of inflation is due to companies profiteering and hiding behind a multitude of excuses where many of those issues have greatly eased.

Quote from: NikoB on March 29, 2023, 21:42:00When I bought an MSI board in 2009 for Intel, it cost about $160. This was a board with 2 RJ45, a bunch of ports and 8 SATA. Everything was covered entirely with radiators. It still holds Linfield overclocked by 42% for 14 years. Not a single BSOD caused by the board.

I doubt that current motherboards for $300-350 can withstand so much and such overclocking... They are definitely not worth it.

Back then, overclocking was a thing. Today, whether it is Alder Lake/Raptor Lake or Zen 4, the top end processors already come almost overclocked to their limits for standard air and water cooling. Hence their extremely high TDP's. Good quality motherboards will be able to handle them at stock rated speeds for years.

Why has no one written that the official inflation is a complete lie and cannot be compared with the real one observed by people everywhere in the economy?

If the false Fed claims about 8%, then the real 16%. People, a lot of people write about 20% in
USA.

The situation is approximately the same in Western, and even worse, in Eastern Europe. Not to mention developing countries, where everything is even worse.

When I bought an MSI board in 2009 for Intel, it cost about $160. This was a board with 2 RJ45, a bunch of ports and 8 SATA. Everything was covered entirely with radiators. It still holds Linfield overclocked by 42% for 14 years. Not a single BSOD caused by the board.

I doubt that current motherboards for $300-350 can withstand so much and such overclocking... They are definitely not worth it.

Keep in mind that boards with DDR5 and maybe PCIe 5 require much more engineering and materials. It will take time for the costs to come down as new tech and motherboard requirements are worked out and ramp in volume. Of course manufacturers also take the opportunity to jack up prices too...

Quote from: kek on March 29, 2023, 06:48:11Now, with all that being said, I wonder when budget AM5 boards will arrive. Even B760M boards are starting to go down in price by now...

There's been a wave of A620 news in the past couple of days, so pretty soon. Then it's just a matter of B650 going to reasonable prices, depending on your definition.

Quote from: kek on March 29, 2023, 06:48:11People here seem to forget that AM4 boards were "cheap" because they were already being done like for a third year, if not more. Now that AM5 has arrived, they act surprised when boards are really expensive.

This is clear but currently mainboard manufacturers exaggerate prices beyond, partly far beyond, what must be necessary.

QuoteI picked up an ASRock Z690 DDR5 Steel Legend for ~210,

This is a price level I would consider ok for a DDR5 medium feature board. However, my preferred boards still hang around €250 ~ €430, depending on the model design rather than the features. It is also the first time that I consider the basic features (such as USB ports) to be sufficient. Suitable DDR4 boards were around €165 but slightly lacking in features (such as too few USB-C ports). New tech, DDR5 or PCIe 5, costs something. The more complete basics are worth, say, €20. But the current price difference generation to generation of at least €85 is exaggerated.

If it were the only surcharge, I might swallow it. But GPU, mainboard, PSU, coolers etc. all with surcharges and retailer price games add up too much for my taste.

QuoteAs for the GPU, I went for an used RTX 3060 off from eBay. [...] for 200$

Also reasonable but something unavailable for me because 3080 is a very different price level in the German used market - way too high to risk that. $200 one can write off if the GPU is bad but $650 is not easily written off. Buying new makes more sense in Germany for mid or upper tier.

People here seem to forget that AM4 boards were "cheap" because they were already being done like for a third year, if not more. Now that AM5 has arrived, they act surprised when boards are really expensive.

Intel boards more or less kept its price until Raptor Lake arrived, but if you look around, you can find deals on those Alder Lake boards. ASRock seems to be the one that lowers their price first, followed by MSI. Asus is the most expensive one based on my last build done just a few weeks ago and I would advice to avoid them.

I picked up an ASRock Z690 DDR5 Steel Legend for ~210, which was way more than what I had in mind (120-150), but after using it for a while, I think it was worth it. You can turn off the RGB, the design doesnt screams gaming and has ton of useful I/O, including Wi-Fi & Bios Flashback support.

As for the GPU, I went for an used RTX 3060 off from eBay. It wasn't used in mining (it's the LHR Hardware revised version) and for 200$, I can't honestly complain at all. I paid that much for an used 1650 on 2021, in the middle of the GPU shortage.

Now, with all that being said, I wonder when budget AM5 boards will arrive. Even B760M boards are starting to go down in price by now...

After the GPU increase, the motherboard increase is the second reason why I have not built a new desktop yet.