In politics, only bastards survive. And I'm not like that. I can easily smear a thin layer on the wall of any top politician in a public discussion. But my judgments will obviously not please the crowd of sheep, with whom the populist politicians work, which is why they are so successful, and not at all because they are really smart, in a creative way for the positive progress of civilization. As in reality, most officials are not smart - they go there, because they lost the competition in the private sector since school. But they are quirky, cynical and diligent enough to build a career in such a dirty environment.

A 600W system is not possible in a laptop - it will just burn out. The laptop needs to be quiet during normal operation and properly balanced to keep components from overheating for at least 10 years of trouble-free operation.

Now everything is different - there is a deliberate deception of ordinary buyers due to the wild growth of TDP and a sharp drop in long-term reliability.

While only Apple offers more balanced solutions, the x86 camp is essentially dead in this regard. Or slow or very noisy/hot and unreliable

QuoteI have been advocating for a long time that the rules of the game be introduced for laptop manufacturers - the maximum consumption of a laptop is not more than 100W

NikoB since you use those terms i am at liberty to use them, besides your totalitarian impulses you should go to politics to show your own idi*cy.

Tell me a 70w Apple laptop rendering a scene for 4 hours consumes more or less energy than a 600w system that renders the same scene in 10 minutes?

Quote from: informatic on March 05, 2023, 12:52:25AMD ZEN 4 Phoenix

One finds in every corner that the CPU has security gaps for malware, its AI makes smart phone calls and thus competes with China.

Quote from: FARHAN on March 05, 2023, 09:22:2870-80W should be the maximum upper limit for laptop cpus, wattage. cant call any thing laptop if that pull over 100w.
If amd can deliver same performance then it should be appreciated in laptop stand point.
for me 45watt is an 8 core 14nmn chips wattage, 35w should be for 8 core 4nm chips and 70w is for 16 cores.

Desktop replacement exists for a while now and few complained of its desktop-like power usage. Gaming laptops has had 100W+ components for so long (CPU is just another addition since the Alder Lake-HX), and they're equipped with monstrous PSU (sometimes dual PSU is necessary). Also, wattage has nothing to do with fabrication process. A chip can be fabbed at 14nm AND consume 35W power, it's just not offer the same performance given by an identical chip fabbed at 4nm and consume 35W power. Kudos for AMD though for giving the Zen 4 superb efficiency when tuned to lower power levels.

Quote from: Written by a ChatGPT Bot. on March 04, 2023, 18:51:32

Quote from: Anonymousgg on March 01, 2023, 17:58:05

Quote from: Rib on March 01, 2023, 16:13:06Since when does a CPU drawing over 120 watts is considered a "mobile processor"? Not while ago that was desktop enthusiast class... I'm wondering where this power inflation will lead us.

Blame Intel. Intel put desktop CPUs into laptops, starting with the "Alder Lake-HX" i9-12900HX and i9-12950HX.

AMD has simply taken the same concept and made it better.

I'd say more just blame x86 in general. Intel kind of became irrelevant years ago after Zen 2, so they shouldn't even be compared to or benchmarked against for efficiency.

Even though progress has been made with x86, the 10 hour battery life we are getting in todays devices were in arm devices 10 years ago. And it's still not enough. Even the most TDP limited throttled mobile x86 cpu still produces more heat and takes more power than the worst arm cpu on a samsung node.

It's no secret that when Apple switched to arm M1 SoC's there was a massive leap in efficiency and they were already considered industry leading in terms of battery life / heat / noise levels in laptops.

We should really just switch to arm for gaming already, I don't know why it hasn't been done. Games are already optimized for the switch so should be too difficult to port. Would help for the sustainability of the planet in general, using less energy and having to use fans less would reduce overall failures in general.

Holy words, but AMD is doing a good job in making the x86 platform as sustainable as possible. In both cases (AMD and apple) TSMC has many credits.

I have been advocating for a long time that the rules of the game be introduced for laptop manufacturers - the maximum consumption of a laptop is not more than 100W, in any series. How did the legal ban on incandescent light bulbs come out.

It is not clear why the authorities of all Western countries pretend that the wild consumption of computers is normal? Instead of real progress in performance per 1W of power?

Unfortunately, most officials and politicians are idiots and populists for the needs of the same stupid majority of the population ...

The bet for the future is AMD with AMD ZEN 4 Phoenix = DDR5 + RDNA 3 + PCI 4.0 + USB 4.0 + HDMI 2.1 + Artificial intelligence with XDNA architecture developed by Xilinx and make the most of ChatGPT, Games and everything related to artificial intelligence, also AMD processors are 4nm vs Intel 10nm
AMD Phoenix CPUs will surpass the Apple M2 in performance and efficiency thanks to the artificial intelligence that incorporates the new AMD ZEN 4 Phoenix and that is what the portable public expects. ZEN 4 Phoenix if you want to know more simply write in your search engine AMD ZEN 4 Phoenix

70-80W should be the maximum upper limit for laptop cpus, wattage. cant call any thing laptop if that pull over 100w.
If amd can deliver same performance then it should be appreciated in laptop stand point.
for me 45watt is an 8 core 14nmn chips wattage, 35w should be for 8 core 4nm chips and 70w is for 16 cores.

Quote from: Anonymousgg on March 01, 2023, 17:58:05

Quote from: Rib on March 01, 2023, 16:13:06Since when does a CPU drawing over 120 watts is considered a "mobile processor"? Not while ago that was desktop enthusiast class... I'm wondering where this power inflation will lead us.

Blame Intel. Intel put desktop CPUs into laptops, starting with the "Alder Lake-HX" i9-12900HX and i9-12950HX.

AMD has simply taken the same concept and made it better.

I'd say more just blame x86 in general. Intel kind of became irrelevant years ago after Zen 2, so they shouldn't even be compared to or benchmarked against for efficiency.

Even though progress has been made with x86, the 10 hour battery life we are getting in todays devices were in arm devices 10 years ago. And it's still not enough. Even the most TDP limited throttled mobile x86 cpu still produces more heat and takes more power than the worst arm cpu on a samsung node.

It's no secret that when Apple switched to arm M1 SoC's there was a massive leap in efficiency and they were already considered industry leading in terms of battery life / heat / noise levels in laptops.

We should really just switch to arm for gaming already, I don't know why it hasn't been done. Games are already optimized for the switch so should be too difficult to port. Would help for the sustainability of the planet in general, using less energy and having to use fans less would reduce overall failures in general.

Quote from: Ayoh on March 02, 2023, 23:58:50I Hope this will not be based on cinebench analysis as that is not well optimised for ARM processors and favours x86. Geekbench or SPEC are more suitable. Any efficiency conclusions for an ARM chip drawn from cinebench test are not really valid

Quote from: Andreas Osthoff on March 02, 2023, 23:23:53The information with 35W will be published in the Apple M2 Pro/Max analysis, which will be published tomorrow. But yes, the 7945HX is a bit more efficient at 35W compared to M2 Pro

Cope. R23 is perfectly fine for comparisons. On the contrary, Geekbench is silly for anything other than smartphone benchmarking. Very lightly threaded and bursty tests make no sense for processors like M2 Pro and 7945HX, as they are often used for heavily threaded workloads that run for long periods.

I Hope this will not be based on cinebench analysis as that is not well optimised for ARM processors and favours x86. Geekbench or SPEC are more suitable. Any efficiency conclusions for an ARM chip drawn from cinebench test are not really valid

Quote from: Andreas Osthoff on March 02, 2023, 23:23:53The information with 35W will be published in the Apple M2 Pro/Max analysis, which will be published tomorrow. But yes, the 7945HX is a bit more efficient at 35W compared to M2 Pro

The information with 35W will be published in the Apple M2 Pro/Max analysis, which will be published tomorrow. But yes, the 7945HX is a bit more efficient at 35W compared to M2 Pro

Andreas,

Great that you tested everything at lower power levels. But can you go a little lower to 35 W and compare the Dragon Range 7945HX to the Macbook Pro 16 M2 which scores 14787 according to your testing? A 16 core Ryzen on 5nm should beat the 12 core M2 on the same node. But by how much? Lower TDP estimates were with 12 core 7900X on reddit (dragon_range_may_be_more_powerful_than_apple_m1)

Quotebut we also have to wait and see if there will be a sufficient number of laptop models with the new CPUs

Yes...very intriguing but the question is whether the Team Red reaches the right products...Zephyrus Duo is a good place to start but this model is generally severely overpriced for people who don't really need that second screen but want the specs anyway, and there's no guarantee the specs in this model will be seen in other premium Asus...

Quote from: Rib on March 01, 2023, 16:13:06Since when does a CPU drawing over 120 watts is considered a "mobile processor"? Not while ago that was desktop enthusiast class... I'm wondering where this power inflation will lead us.

Have you heard of a power point. These are mostly for mobile workstation users, that would normally plug their laptop in, but can have a very powerful laptop on the go. Also Intel's max power limit on thjs HX is 157W vs AMD's 120W. You could run this in the 35-75W range and it would beast Intel HX by an even larger margin and get decent battery life.