Quote from: Anonymousgg on June 12, 2021, 16:38:30
So the iPad Pro hardware, which is intended to be paired with a keyboard attachment, became too good in comparison to Macbooks.  The OS is holding it back artificially in multiple ways. Only Apple's customers can stop themselves from being milked by voting with their wallets. Good luck with that.

It doesn't have to be paired with a keyboard. I'm not convinced that was their vision. Personally, I never cared for the whole iPad Pro. I would rather have a normal iPad with a bigger screen (ideally A4 or letter sized). Yes, it did bring some advances but that's just a product planning decision - nothing inherently stops them from being on non-Pro models. And they indeed trickled down.

I wouldn't put it this way. Yes, perhaps the iPad Pro got too powerful for the OS. But there are some very real engineering problems. I wouldn't point to Microsoft as having the answers. We can make fun of Apple's fanatics but there are things Apple gets right. I mean, if they didn't, none of us would care about what they do. They would be irrelevant. Also, Cook is no Jobs, is he. I really have no clue what his vision is. Except making more money.

For me as a user, a simple solution would be to offer me macOS as an option. Perhaps switching into it as you dock an iPad into a Magic Keyboard. And switch into iPadOS when you undock. Simple from user's perspective. Not so simple in software. I really am not convinced there is enough demand to justify such an endeavor. Of course, Microsoft wouldn't care. They would just sell you a macOS license and the rest is your problem.

Quote from: _MT_ on June 12, 2021, 15:11:59

Quote from: dmytty on June 12, 2021, 02:03:10
However, this arbitrary limit of 5-6 GB in iPadOS is just silly and is the type of move that a weak company makes to try force a certain model on customers.

Previous iPad Pro had how much, 6 GB of RAM? So, that limitation made sense. If they indeed failed to lift the limit despite releasing a 16 GB version, they failed quite miserably.

A previous story said there is a 4.5 GB limit for the 6 GB iPad Pro, and 5 GB for the new 8/16 GB iPad Pro. That might have been a rounding error and they could be the same.

I use 32-bit Raspbian on an 8 GB RPi 4B, which has a 3 GB limit per process. Each Chromium browser tab is its own process so the browser can eventually use all the memory without any trouble. I could see scenarios where the 16 GB iPad Pro might be useful for someone even with the RAM limit, but that's a lot of money for a "Pro" product that can't allow something like a video editing application to use even half of the available memory.

So the iPad Pro hardware, which is intended to be paired with a keyboard attachment, became too good in comparison to Macbooks.  The OS is holding it back artificially in multiple ways. Only Apple's customers can stop themselves from being milked by voting with their wallets. Good luck with that.

Quote from: dmytty on June 12, 2021, 02:03:10
However, this arbitrary limit of 5-6 GB in iPadOS is just silly and is the type of move that a weak company makes to try force a certain model on customers.

Previous iPad Pro had how much, 6 GB of RAM? So, that limitation made sense. If they indeed failed to lift the limit despite releasing a 16 GB version, they failed quite miserably.

I don't see a problem that they want you to buy both - mac and ipad. Just no point in buying this top series as if you have Mac already, the ordinary new iPad will do great too for half or less the price of M1 iPad. Some people already work exclusively on iPad and dont own a Mac, for them the extra power is worth, the question is how many of such users there are.. For me personally, I'd also like to have just an iPad which I can connect to monitor and peripherals and have almost mac-like experience, without a need to own a mac. But that's not gonna happen with apple, at least for a couple (or more) years...

At this point Apple should release 2 in 1 Macbook air or at least put touch screen on Macbooks. Then I don't need to buy ipad anymore. Bring both devices to work or travel really is a pain though.

Yup. Basically this is you, me, and everyone else.

For the first time, I was also going to spurge on a brand new $2,000 12" M1 iPad Pro 16GB, hoping it would be a secondary Laptop replacement.
After WWDC, now I'm getting a $700 Used iPad Air instead. No point in paying a full PC price for a Tablet that cannot work as a Tablet PC.

It's such a pity Apple took this direction. But I don't regret my decision since I'm not in the Apple "Ecosystem", nor do I ever plan to be.

@Sanjiv, they're still making money, even with the downgrade you did. That's a sell in their books, no matter what config you're buying in. Business 101.

Quote from: SamSSS on June 12, 2021, 01:58:21
Seriously? You're asking Apple to give you some half baked solutions which you will then criticise.

Chill. Why are you so salty about it?

The OP raised a valid point imo. What's the point of having great hw if you cannot make use of its potential? And vice versa for sw, of course. It's obvious these are just selling strategies to get more pennies in their pockets, instead of being a bit more pragmatic about the value of their products and how the end customer benefits from them.

Greedy Corp's like Apple and Samsung do this all the time. Plus a ton of other corporations, not just these two.

Quote from: Bryan K on June 11, 2021, 16:27:31
I think your mistake is thinking from the perspective of a consumer. For us consumers, given the powerful hardware of the iPad Pro 2021, it would only be logical to start merging iPadOS and MacOS, so that the iPad can surpass the Surface line and become a true all-in-one monster.

However, Apple didn't become a 2 trillion dollar company by looking out for the consumers. And so, they've approached the iPad Pro from the perspective of a business - that making the iPad Pro too capable would cannibalize Mac sales, specifically the MBA, especially when both are running the same chip nowadays. They want consumers to buy an iPad and MacBook, not an iPad OR Macbook.

I completely agree that Apple's approach is business driven and acknolwedged this in my previous opinion piece ahead of WWDC. The thing is Apple's 12,9-inch iPad Pro models are similarly priced to MacBooks at the entry-level and similarly priced to a high-spec 13-inch MacBook Pro at the upper end. What really are they losing by having someone opt for a high-end 12.9-inch iPad Pro because someone chooses it over a MacBook? As I have highlighted here, Apple's inaction on iPadOS has actually cost them money because I downgraded my model choice substantially following WWDC -- how is that a win from a business perspective?

Quote from: SamSSS on June 12, 2021, 01:58:21
Seriously? You expect Apple to allow applications developed for a mouse interface on a touchscreen device?

Yet Apple has brought iOS apps and iPadOS apps designed for a touch-first experience to Mac that only have a point-and-click UI? At least via the Magic Keyboard, there is a completely realistic way iPad Pro and Air users have of using Mac apps on an iPad.

It's fine that Apple wants me to buy a Macbook Pro and an iPad.  I can even agree that they each have their respective use case.  However, this arbitrary limit of 5-6 GB in iPadOS is just silly and is the type of move that a weak company makes to try force a certain model on customers.

I haven't cancelled the iPad Pro order yet (2 TB w/ cellular) but I'm going to keep it in the box for 30 days. I think it goes back.

Seriously? You expect Apple to allow applications developed for a mouse interface on a touchscreen device? Did you ever try running any old(er) windows applications on a touchscreen enabled laptop? I bet not or you would very quickly realise that applications need to be developed for specific human interfaces. You're asking Apple to give you some half baked solutions which you will then criticise. SMH

Now if one of those 3rd party keyboards not only has an extra C port but a headphone jack...at a reasonable weight of course.

I agree Apple wants to sell an ecosystem where consumers 'need' a Mac and an iPad.  This has always been the case but it used to be easier to justify as the iPad wasn't as powerful.  So the trade off in form factor for power made sense and only having 'pro' apps on the powerful machines made selling that strategy work.   

But today there are no performance reasons for the choices apple is making so they are exposed as purely marketing moves that push users toward the purchases and experiences they want them to have over the choices and experience they want.   

Apple has always done this...  its just more obvious now.  Its why I stopped developing for apple after the iPad 3.  Back then it was that you needed a mac to sign an app for the app store...   and their approval process was at times very arbitrary.  So even if you developed multi platform and didn't need a mac to develop your ipad app... you needed to buy one to get the app signed. 

Today its little things...   you can now run ipad apps on your mac... but no touch screen so you really cant test them without a real ipad... so you still need the two devices... although you can work around that with an external touch screen as apparently macOS supports touch, just not on their own hardware... and not officially.

I think your mistake is thinking from the perspective of a consumer. For us consumers, given the powerful hardware of the iPad Pro 2021, it would only be logical to start merging iPadOS and MacOS, so that the iPad can surpass the Surface line and become a true all-in-one monster.

However, Apple didn't become a 2 trillion dollar company by looking out for the consumers. And so, they've approached the iPad Pro from the perspective of a business - that making the iPad Pro too capable would cannibalize Mac sales, specifically the MBA, especially when both are running the same chip nowadays. They want consumers to buy an iPad and MacBook, not an iPad OR Macbook.