Why is this no name site posting articles about consoles in the first place with so many sony queefs?

All of this suffices to say... Or would, were it not for the sleeping dragon and the 364 kilogramme gorilla called Halo Infinite.

The past the present and the future belongs to Sony, what are you guys smoking? Better games = better sales format is simple. And Sony just went on shopping spree with developers and studios, they have much better scouts for great creators.

Playstation already has a streaming service plus it has ps now. They already do what Xbox is doing. Why would anyone want to play on Xbox when their favorite or most wanted games are on PS. The marketing for games is the reason Sony is winning. The games are what draw players. Xbox isn't doing what spotify is doing. They're is stadia that legit does the streaming already, that would be a fit for that comparison not xbox. Xbox connects with the pc but pc players rather be separate from consoles. To be really honest I think PS will eventually will be more willing to do cross play and connect with other consoles once they see the need in business. Which means when xbox or Nintendo beg for it, not just the players. Sony won't ever leave the top spot not for now. They have to many loyal fans now and business opportunities.

Quote from: Anonym on July 22, 2020, 15:47:55

Quote from: Owen on July 22, 2020, 13:49:51
For example, I want to play Fallout 2, can I buy it on the so claimed xbox x?
(...)
if i want to play old games why would I buy a new console?

Your circular argument pretty much answered itself.

Quote from: Owen on July 22, 2020, 13:49:51You basically need to buy all the games again. On the PC side, a new laptop/PC can always play all the games you already owned, plus new games.

No you don't. That's the whole point, Xbox now works like the PC always had: new consoles still play the older generation games without an additional purchase, both in digital or physical purchases. Also, just like the PC, those games can take advantage of the improved hardware without having to paying anything extra (i.e., you are not forced to buy a remaster like in the past). Furthermore, some of the Xbox purchases can also be played on a PC *free* of charge. That is not the Game Pass subscription, but rather the Play Anywhere feature in most of Microsoft first-party games.

Quote from: Owen on July 22, 2020, 13:49:51Also, in the first year of a console release there are hardly any games, you basically pay a huge premium to wait.

For the same reason anyone upgrades their hardware on PCs. It's not like they cannot play today's games (at some mediocre setting), or new games start being released just because they upgraded. Simply put, standards change over time and the hardware just got a lot better. You've actually made that argument in other comments as the big advantage for PCs. The thing you keep missing, or misunderstanding, is that the new consoles are not like the generations of old: if you already own an Xbox, all your game library will still work in the latest and greatest hardware -- just like the PC. If you time your upgrade cycles with the console releases, you'll get far better hardware for the same money by buying a console than with an equivalent PC at the same time of a new console generation release. That's just the fundamentals of the console business, with everything good and bad that arises from that.

I feel like explaining apple and yet you are talking orange. Anyway, let's call it an end and enjoy gaming in whatever format/platform we find comfortable, you have a good day.

It doesn't matter if Microsoft were to turn gaming into Netflix esque because it takes a whole lot more than being different to get Sony and Playstation fanboys to make that switc. Besides, what are Microsoft's exclusives compared to Sony's? And to those that speaks of PC being a no brainer due to its versatile use in non-gaming usage, well you ought to know that users now owns both console and desktop. It's not like PC is expensive nowadays. And the fact that  console runs on even the biggest UHD 4K/8K Smart TV accompanied with a 9.1c Home Theatre beats PC hands down.

Quote from: Owen on July 22, 2020, 13:49:51
For example, I want to play Fallout 2, can I buy it on the so claimed xbox x?
(...)
if i want to play old games why would I buy a new console?

Your circular argument pretty much answered itself.

Quote from: Owen on July 22, 2020, 13:49:51You basically need to buy all the games again. On the PC side, a new laptop/PC can always play all the games you already owned, plus new games.

No you don't. That's the whole point, Xbox now works like the PC always had: new consoles still play the older generation games without an additional purchase, both in digital or physical purchases. Also, just like the PC, those games can take advantage of the improved hardware without having to paying anything extra (i.e., you are not forced to buy a remaster like in the past). Furthermore, some of the Xbox purchases can also be played on a PC *free* of charge. That is not the Game Pass subscription, but rather the Play Anywhere feature in most of Microsoft first-party games.

Quote from: Owen on July 22, 2020, 13:49:51Also, in the first year of a console release there are hardly any games, you basically pay a huge premium to wait.

For the same reason anyone upgrades their hardware on PCs. It's not like they cannot play today's games (at some mediocre setting), or new games start being released just because they upgraded. Simply put, standards change over time and the hardware just got a lot better. You've actually made that argument in other comments as the big advantage for PCs. The thing you keep missing, or misunderstanding, is that the new consoles are not like the generations of old: if you already own an Xbox, all your game library will still work in the latest and greatest hardware -- just like the PC. If you time your upgrade cycles with the console releases, you'll get far better hardware for the same money by buying a console than with an equivalent PC at the same time of a new console generation release. That's just the fundamentals of the console business, with everything good and bad that arises from that.

Quote from: Anonym on July 22, 2020, 11:50:43

Quote from: Owen on July 22, 2020, 10:51:18I will give you one example, I spent hundreds of £ buy games on my PS3. But once I sold the console, all my games are gone.

That's very much a non-issue in the Xbox, you can still play Xbox 360 games on all Xbox Ones, and will keep playing them moving to the Xbox Series X. In fact, Microsoft even doubled-down on that strategy, you only need one purchase of their first-party games to play *both* on the PC and XBOX (no double dipping -- or triple/quadruple as in the PlayStation new consoles example). They are increasingly capitalizing on the fact the de facto OS is Windows (a Microsoft product) to just brand all Microsoft gaming as Xbox regardless of being played on a console box or your own PC hardware.

The real advantage of a PC is that your hardware is usable in more ways than just gaming. That is the killer argument, so just argue that without further rationalizing.
As a dedicated gaming machine, there is good reason why the price-performance of that first year of a console is unbeatable. It's not because of some "dark magic" that makes consoles special or some other rationalizing BS, but rather because consoles are effectively sold at a loss in that first year. Very competent people already spent a lot of time working with the manufacturers and game studios to get the best hardware for that price-point, which they are effectively subsidizing and the studios are committed to support fully in the next years. Professionals are doing the work for you, and they are paying for that privilege in the first year. That is a pretty sweet deal for a no-frills gaming experience.

Quote from: Anonym on July 22, 2020, 11:50:43

Quote from: Owen on July 22, 2020, 10:51:18I will give you one example, I spent hundreds of £ buy games on my PS3. But once I sold the console, all my games are gone.

That's very much a non-issue in the Xbox, you can still play Xbox 360 games on all Xbox Ones, and will keep playing them moving to the Xbox Series X. In fact, Microsoft even doubled-down on that strategy, you only need one purchase of their first-party games to play *both* on the PC and XBOX (no double dipping -- or triple/quadruple as in the PlayStation new consoles example). They are increasingly capitalizing on the fact the de facto OS is Windows (a Microsoft product) to just brand all Microsoft gaming as Xbox regardless of being played on a console box or your own PC hardware.

The real advantage of a PC is that your hardware is usable in more ways than just gaming. That is the killer argument, so just argue that without further rationalizing.
As a dedicated gaming machine, there is good reason why the price-performance of that first year of a console is unbeatable. It's not because of some "dark magic" that makes consoles special or some other rationalizing BS, but rather because consoles are effectively sold at a loss in that first year. Very competent people already spent a lot of time working with the manufacturers and game studios to get the best hardware for that price-point, which they are effectively subsidizing and the studios are committed to support fully in the next years. Professionals are doing the work for you, and they are paying for that privilege in the first year. That is a pretty sweet deal for a no-frills gaming experience.

There are tons of games that are not available in MS windows store. The game pass MS trying to push only include a few games, most PC games are not there. For example, I want to play Fallout 2, can I buy it on the so claimed xbox x?

Plus, MS had f**ked gamers so many times in the past (windows live, MS game points) why would I buy games from them again? I have used Xbox Game Pass and I will never used it again.

Also, in the first year of a console release there are hardly any games, you basically pay a huge premium to wait. The same apply to PS5 and Xbox X (don't tell me about backward compatiblity here, if i want to play old games why would I buy a new console?). You basically need to buy all the games again. On the PC side, a new laptop/PC can always play all the games you already owned, plus new games.

Quote from: Superguy on July 21, 2020, 17:19:35
I disagree for several reasons.

First off, streaming music and streaming video games are like apples and oranges. Yo don't need much to successfully stream music: an internet connection, a player, and a speaker of some sort. You don't need much bandwidth to have acceptable sound - even with crappy data connections. You can also take it anywhere and it's fairly unobtrusive.

Gaming, on the other hand, requires much more data, and at least a controller to have a decent experience. It takes at least 10 Mb to get a decent experience on Stadia. Problem is you're not going to get this often, if at all, I a public Wifi like Starbucks. Even at hotels, the "premium" internet offering often doesn't break 10 Mb. So the only reliable connections will be a cell connection or a private wifi connection. Not very portable.

Similarly, the experience overall isn't going to be that great.  Who wants to game constantly on a 6" phone screen, as is often shown as the use case? Even when playing on a PS Vita, the experience was just OK. Not something I'd want to do for hours on. A PC/laptop makes more sense, which brings us to the next point.

Even if this is meant to be primarily a home service, there are a lot of problems with the idea. First off, MS is late to the party. There are already other services or there offering streaming, like Nvidia, Google, and Sony PSNow.  They all have problems. Nvidia tried using games people already owned and just did the platformv thing and devs got pissed because they want to double dip. Stadia is struggling. PSNow has a lot of content, but it's missing a lot, and games come and go.  It's more of a supplement for additional content, not an outright solution.

Secondly, content is getting stovepiped just like it is in video. Before, Netflix was mostly a one stop shop, and you might need Hulu for current programming. Everyone got Amazon with Prime. That covered it for most people. However, content providers got greedy. If you want Disney content, you have to go directly to them. Same with CBS, HBO, and more.

We're seeing that with gaming services. Ubisoft and EA have theirs, as do others. That's a lot of subscriptions to manage. How many people will be willing to pay monthly? What about buying games vs streaming them? If you buy them, they're yours. I'd you rent them, they're gone once you unsubscribe.

Streaming games may have a place, but it's too murky right now. Too many issues, and it's hard too see a consistent profit coming from these. Consoles will be here for a long time to come.

I agree, but I reckon some "industry insider" is gonna come over and brag about how 5G could change everything. Maybe 5 years later, maybe 10, but 5G will definitely not replace 4G now, and streaming games with 4G is not realistic with the connection quality that covers...at least 95% of the world population? Even less considering some carriers like China's try to throttle 4G to make way for half-a**ed 5G speeds that good 4G could achieve anyway, like that in HK or SK.

Quote from: Owen on July 22, 2020, 10:51:18I will give you one example, I spent hundreds of £ buy games on my PS3. But once I sold the console, all my games are gone.

That's very much a non-issue in the Xbox, you can still play Xbox 360 games on all Xbox Ones, and will keep playing them moving to the Xbox Series X. In fact, Microsoft even doubled-down on that strategy, you only need one purchase of their first-party games to play *both* on the PC and XBOX (no double dipping -- or triple/quadruple as in the PlayStation new consoles example). They are increasingly capitalizing on the fact the de facto OS is Windows (a Microsoft product) to just brand all Microsoft gaming as Xbox regardless of being played on a console box or your own PC hardware.

The real advantage of a PC is that your hardware is usable in more ways than just gaming. That is the killer argument, so just argue that without further rationalizing.
As a dedicated gaming machine, there is good reason why the price-performance of that first year of a console is unbeatable. It's not because of some "dark magic" that makes consoles special or some other rationalizing BS, but rather because consoles are effectively sold at a loss in that first year. Very competent people already spent a lot of time working with the manufacturers and game studios to get the best hardware for that price-point, which they are effectively subsidizing and the studios are committed to support fully in the next years. Professionals are doing the work for you, and they are paying for that privilege in the first year. That is a pretty sweet deal for a no-frills gaming experience.

Console gaming is actually very expensive long-term. If you are a long-term gamer, PC is the way to go.

I will give you one example, I spent hundreds of £ buy games on my PS3. But once I sold the console, all my games are gone. There is absolutely no way I can re-play these old games (unless of course I re-buy another PS3). And some older games turn up in PS4 as remaster edition (e.g. dark soul, tomb raider), and I have to buy these games again if I want to play them on my PS4 or even again on PS5.

On the other hand, all my steam library still works after a decade (I still play Fallout 2 by the way). Even my non-steam games brought pre-steam era still works. Boy, I am not going to re-buy all these again.

Also, PCs are not expensive nowdays, just watch some LowSpecGamer's video, £250 can easily give you 1080p medium settings in most games. The beauty of PC gaming is that most hardwares have a very long life span, far longer than a console generation. For example, GTX750ti can still give you OKish experience in modern games (that's a pre-PS4 graphics card). And I still game on my GT710 (about 25fps at highest settings in Stellaris at 1440P).

Even if you buy new, a Ryzen 4800H and RTX2060 laptop can be had for about £1,000 (which allow gaming on a airplane, just like a Switch). Most importantly, you don't have to buy old games again on any new system, that's hundreds of (if not thousands)  saving towards new releases.

TL;DR, PC gaming is not expensive if done in the right way.

Quote from: DougJudy on July 22, 2020, 00:52:53A computer from 2014 doesn't magically turn bad because we're in 2020, lower the graphics settings and it will run just as well as the consoles do.

Actually, there are a few key aspects that you are leaving out. A big chunk of today's gaming performance comes from optimization, that is done in the GPU drivers. 6 years is a really long time, GPU architectures change and evolve, so do the support interests of the GPU manufacturer (ergo, that driver optimization goes away). The whole mantra of AMD/ATI cards performing better in the long-run is solely due to this, their architecture hasn't changed as often as NVidia's, hence all driver optimization stays relevant for longer to the older cards.

Furthermore, the amount of effort to get a game working well in 2014 will be significantly different if you keep that same hardware all the way into 2020. In fact, there is some hubris here. Game developers specifically change the game (i.e., the source code and assets) so that it runs better on those consoles. Those changes go far beyond simple feature toggles, they specifically target the full capabilities of that hardware within the game design. Realistically, consoles are the reason why you get to keep your old PC gaming for longer, you are exploiting the console's optimizations to run in your measly hardware. Kill the consoles, and you'll be in for a no so sweet treat -- after all, do you really believe GPU manufacturers (and their insidious influence through game sponsorships) don't have a vested interest into getting you to buy new hardware shortly after a new architecture comes out?

TL;DR money speaks and having millions in standardized hardware (i.e., consoles) strongly encourages studios to get the best out of that specific hardware.

If you want to reach billions of people, it's called mobile gaming.

And if we're talking about mobile gaming, there's button limitation. No touchscreen can emulate the accuracy & feel of physical button. You'll be limiting yourself to relatively simplified control (& gameplay).

External controller is too much investment for non gamers.

There's also mobile internet issue & data cost. NA or EU might be fine, but most of Asia & Africa is just not there yet.

They're 30 years too early on this gamble.

Quote from: G-nice on July 21, 2020, 17:13:12
Yeah but how it currently looks, the series x and ps5 will beat all machines built in 2019 and before. PC masterrace, but you can't deny the fact that a gaming machine which does not require any maintenance or regurly updates (you cannot compare a desktop from 2014 to one from 2020 cause the newer one will stomp the older pc) unlike a pc which needs a videocard every 2 years if you want to keep gaming on the highest presets. (a console from 2014 still performs the same as day one 6 year later while an pc would've needed to upgrade 3 times to stay relevan)

Not to mention the cost factor of a pc is significantly higher than that of a console. The initial cost of a pc compared to next gen could be around 2K.

If i look at the most current steam chart the most used card is the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060.

If you want to achieve the performance the next gen is supposedly to going to achieve, you'll need a GPU that costs double, maybe even triple that of NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060.

i probably won't be getting this gen, cause pc masterrace (and amd has become competitive again) but i can't deny the fact that the newer boxes will be monsters that can crunch numbers more easily than a 2080 t.i. can do

What you said is almost completely wrong. A computer from 2014 doesn't magically turn bad because we're in 2020, lower the graphics settings and it will run just as well as the consoles do.

You're equating a console to max settings all the time which never happens, they are simply optimized out of the box and take all the choices away from you, but you can do those same choices or even better ones on a pc. The console is more convenient, sure, but the capabilities are the same.

You also point out the next gen "will be monsters that can crunch numbers more easily than a 2080 t.i. ", well they simply won't. They'll be a lot cheaper, but neither of them reaches 2080ti performance (xbox is close) when comparing tflops which is all we can do.

Consoles are a lot more cost effective because their production scale allows for much better margins, but over their product cycle they get undercut by pc components rather quickly, not in raw price, but the increased performance of a pc around 3 years after console launch is worth the extra price.

Some gamers, including myself, want to own their games for decades to come. I can still boot up my old SNES and play if I'm in a nostalgic mood.

Not so with cloud streaming as it's just a rental. You don't own squat and they control what games you can play and how long they will be available. If I can't own it on hardware and play without internet and server dependence then I don't want it, no matter how fantastic the games will be.