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Posted by Rajib Kumar Roy
 - Yesterday at 09:11:23
The Indian Chemical Company, Ramcharan, will launch the cheapest solid-state battery ( from sodium-silicate ) in 2026.

Although it's energy-density is less than other types ( sulfide based ) of solid-state battery, it is the most environment-friendly ( 100 % recyclable ).

Apart from being safer and longer lasting than lithium-ion ones, solid-state batteries take much less time to fully charge.
Posted by anan
 - October 01, 2025, 12:53:28
Quote from: Birdseye on September 30, 2025, 21:46:40So what I don't understand is : Why if LFP batteries are 0.04/Wh = $40/kWh, then our ID.4 battery of 82kWh costs $3,280, but the whole car costs $60k? Wtf? Why - something doesn't tally. An ICE engine costs more than the battery, so there already is / SHOULD BE price parity. As per usual car manufacturers cry that there is no margin, maybe reduce those ridiculous CEO and sales salaries a bit?!
Those prices are probably quoted for battery cells. And likely those are Chinese prices. In China they do manage to build 'super' cheap EVs with smallish batteries. But in the West a lot of legacy manufacturers are signing contracts with battery makers (LG, Panasonic, Samsung and Chinese ones). Those span > 5 years and mention how many GWh of batteries will be purchased. These contracts do not mention the price for those batteries. But that price is deff higher and might include very expensive insurance. The WV ID batteries are likely build on cells bought on old contracts with very high prices. The Hyundai ionic 5 battery costs 90% of the price of the car itself if bought separately.
Many manufacturers made stupid decisions on post pandemic EV boom. Many expensive contracts were signed in times of component shortages. There were articles on how Fort lost money on every Mustang MachE sold.
Buying an EV today we would overpay due to contracts made years ago.
Only Tesla and Chinese makers can control their battery prices.
If WV got their hands on a cheap Na battery they would still charge just a smidge less than current offerings. Just to balance the books. All those billions sunk into EV/battery development will be passed to the customer.
Posted by Gary Tulie
 - October 01, 2025, 02:55:24
Also to be considered is Sodium batteries are ideal for vehicles in extreme climate areas with only a very modest drop off in range all the way down to -40 centigrade.
Posted by Birdseye
 - September 30, 2025, 21:46:40
So what I don't understand is : Why if LFP batteries are 0.04/Wh = $40/kWh, then our ID.4 battery of 82kWh costs $3,280, but the whole car costs $60k? Wtf? Why - something doesn't tally. An ICE engine costs more than the battery, so there already is / SHOULD BE price parity. As per usual car manufacturers cry that there is no margin, maybe reduce those ridiculous CEO and sales salaries a bit?!
Posted by anan
 - September 30, 2025, 09:37:21
QuoteIt's worth noting that at "car" scales 2000 cycles is still a lot. For early EVs with ~60 mile range that equates to ~120k miles. On a modern EV with more like 200 miles range 2000 cycles is 400k miles!

So it's not being done for longevity - very few cars ever drive that far - it's 100% cost and safety.

I had a 1st gen BMW i3 that got to 120k miles on its original battery and reported it had 80% capacity remaining, but the i3 is known for managing its battery very well. Other early EVs (like the 1st gen Leaf) are known for faster drops. But with a ~60 miles range, hitting as high of a mileage as I did is a genuine achievement, even now you see 2nd hand 10+ year old 1st gen EVs that are nowhere close to 2000 battery cycles.
Unfortunately those EVs with small batteries (~60 mile range: e-Up, Leaf, i3) are often miss-used. Many got them as a second car and kept them constantly charged on a home charger. Leafs are notorious for bad battery management. When the battery is small you don't have much headroom to not charge it to 100%. There are many used Leafs with wildly different remaining range even if they have roughly the same mileage.
TLDR - bigger batteries can mitigate bad use, better batteries make small EVs more viable.
Posted by ChrisB
 - September 30, 2025, 09:33:02
Quote from: anan on September 29, 2025, 10:55:17
Quote from: Andrew Goetsch on September 28, 2025, 20:20:50So these 'Na' batteries are a viable option 'in their category' as long as they reach price parity with LFPs.
They don't need to reach parity completely of they are cheaper. There will be a market for them in lower end city cars and applications where density is not as important like power banks
Posted by Thief
 - September 30, 2025, 08:36:18
Quote from: anan on September 29, 2025, 10:55:17a significantly shorter lifespan (~2000 cycles to 70%).
[...] ~5000 cycles to 70%.

It's worth noting that at "car" scales 2000 cycles is still a lot. For early EVs with ~60 mile range that equates to ~120k miles. On a modern EV with more like 200 miles range 2000 cycles is 400k miles!

So it's not being done for longevity - very few cars ever drive that far - it's 100% cost and safety.

I had a 1st gen BMW i3 that got to 120k miles on its original battery and reported it had 80% capacity remaining, but the i3 is known for managing its battery very well. Other early EVs (like the 1st gen Leaf) are known for faster drops. But with a ~60 miles range, hitting as high of a mileage as I did is a genuine achievement, even now you see 2nd hand 10+ year old 1st gen EVs that are nowhere close to 2000 battery cycles.
Posted by ZiziMai
 - September 29, 2025, 13:45:12
Not to mention MNC batteries have the greatest tendency for thermal runaway even with best cooling applied. They are also at highest fire risk when punctured.
Posted by anan
 - September 29, 2025, 10:55:17
Quote from: Andrew Goetsch on September 28, 2025, 20:20:50Some lithium batteries are over 300 watts per kg now. Not 165.
Those are NMC chemistry Lithium batteries - better capacity, charging speed but costlier, worse in cold weather and with a significantly shorter lifespan (~2000 cycles to 70%).
'Na' batteries are being compared to LFP chemistry Lithium batteries. Those have 205 Wh/kg capacity at the top end. Are better in cold weather. And have ~5000 cycles to 70%. And are the cheapest option on the market RN.
So these 'Na' batteries are a viable option 'in their category' as long as they reach price parity with LFPs.
Posted by Andrew Goetsch
 - September 28, 2025, 20:20:50
Some lithium batteries are over 300 watts per kg now. Not 165.
Posted by Redaktion
 - September 28, 2025, 11:58:38
After the world's largest battery maker managed to craft a sodium-ion battery with high energy density ready for mass production, the future of the technology looks bright. Sodium-ion batteries are slated to proliferate as soon as 2026 now.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Sodium-ion-batteries-set-to-go-mainstream-as-they-hit-LFP-price-and-energy-density-parity.1126324.0.html