NotebookCHECK - Notebook Forum

Agreed with the conclusion. Macbook Air is a lighter, better designed (Steve...) more comfortable (tapered), fanless, no ugly notch, nice black on metal keyboard (not this all black slab) etc... and much cheaper. Same single core performance. Apple is taking huge steps backwards design-wise. And the next macbook air is like the new iMac... silly toy looking. This is unfortunate. I don't care about the extra ports. For a laptop, I preferred slim-downed with dongles when needed (rarely), than ugly and heavy with ports.

There is a typo in the specs section. The M1 Pro and Max uses LPDDR5 6400 MHz RAM. They do not use LPDDR4X 4266 MHz.

While there are areas of improvement, it's hard to fault this sort of package. Cons are relatively minor. I don't mind the notch given the display's tall form factor and I would think it would be even less of an issue with the larger 16,2" screen size. Camera is better than most laptops but still just okay. Lack of face ID seems odd given how large the notched area is but at least there's touch ID. Display peak brightness in SDR could be better as the battery life is more than adequate for working outdoors in bright environment. I doubt Apple will patch the option in however. Lack of the best Wi-Fi, latest HDMI spec and fastest SD card reader is a little shame but none of these are bad and this is still a clear upgrade over the previous MacBook Pros.

The lack of good maintenance options and the pricing of additional RAM and memory is very Apple like and disappointing. Despite that I think the machine is competitively priced as in many ways it is the best you can get in a laptop. The combination of high quality construction and form factor, best speakers and touchpad in a laptop, one of the best laptop displays, good keyboard, great battery life, good port selection, high performance, low noise and temperatures, compact fast charger, decent camera and good microphones is unmatched. Integration of HDR is sublime, I don't think there's a better way to do it.

The power draw during light use/idle with M1 Pro vs M1 Max is something I'm eager to see in future reviews. Supposedly the M1 Max uses quite a bit more power even when not doing graphically intensive tasks which would steer me towards the 16 inch Pro model instead of Max.

You also forget to mention that M1 Max has double the memory bandwitch of M1 Pro.

Thanks for the test, I have two questions regarding the screen.

1) which profile is tested on calman? (I am assuming XDR apple p3 1600 nit).

2) it is impossible to calibrate the screen because it is not possible to add an icc profile to the main screen, on the other hand no problem on an external monitor the icc profiles are well selectable.
have you noticed this problem?

Been a PC User all my life.  My Mom and brother were/are programmers, so we always had some form of PCs throughout our home growing up.  I've dabbled in Macs here and there, mostly for college when I got my first tech support job.

I decided to plunge on this, since Amazon says I have 3 months to evaluate...why not?  I got the 16" version.

I gotta say, I really, really love the hardware.  Battery life is simply amazing.  I've never used a device that has lasted half as long.  I've had the MacBook a week, and it sits at 47% charge, after using it for web browsing/screwing around with the OS a bit (2-4 hours?) daily.   

Now, what I'm not a huge fan of, is the OS.  OSX gets in the way.  The window control compared to Windows is pretty sub-par.  I suppose a lot of that has to do with my learning curve, but it's maddening at times the differences between what appears to be full-screen and what OSX determines as full screen. 

I was surprised at how unintuitive some of the functions are of the OS.  The App Store has crashed on me twice, something I haven't seen on a Windows laptop in over a year.  I assume it's due to the newness of Monterey?

Safari is just amazing.  I love my Firefox, but holy cow is Safari fast.  Adding in a few extensions and it's *almost* as powerful as Firefox.   Thankfully, both co-exist on my MacBook perfectly fine.

Overall, this is the best physical hardware mobile I've ever worked with.  I'm over the marketing crap Apple used to pull, I just look the other way so I don't feel like I'm part of the flock.  I wish I could get a decent Linux (Trust,) system with this hardware, and leave OSX behind.

I have 90 days to evaluate... and so far I'm pretty sold on it.  Well done, Apple.

"You also forget to mention that M1 Max has double the memory bandwitch of M1 Pro."
CPU memory bandwidth is the same across both options, 100GB/s per CPU cluster.

@etny
Agree, this is not a laptop for us the developers. Apple really targeted video editor here - I mean, look at the hardware video accelerator that was a $2000 option for Mac Pro, and Apple puts it in every single MacBook Pro now. I guess they knew the supply would be limited, and hard targeted the group of customers who the most expensive configurations with lots of SSD space and memory. At a very special Apple upgrade price.
Waiting for 2022 to see a slim fanless M2 MacBook Air with the same pro screen.

IIRC, the previous M1 MacBook Air and Pro had a constant 60Hz flicker above certain brightness levels in addition to the PWM (Mentioned in the reviews on notebookcheck). Do these newer ones have a similar thing, or is it always just the 14,880hz flicker at all times? If so, that may be better than the previous Macs since the hz is so high.

Dont forget that the card reader is limited to UHS-II rather than UHS-III. For the money and the rest of the notebook being top of the line why skimp on an WiFi module, hdmi port and ss card reader. They could have charged an extra $100 and still been fine.

Quote from: etny on November 02, 2021, 12:02:42
Agreed with the conclusion. Macbook Air is a lighter, better designed (Steve...) more comfortable (tapered), fanless, no ugly notch, nice black on metal keyboard (not this all black slab) etc... and much cheaper. Same single core performance. Apple is taking huge steps backwards design-wise. And the next macbook air is like the new iMac... silly toy looking. This is unfortunate. I don't care about the extra ports. For a laptop, I preferred slim-downed with dongles when needed (rarely), than ugly and heavy with ports.

I really hope they don't go with a white bezel on the next air. Imagine how that notch will look with a dark screen especially a movie with the black bars. At least offer a black bezel and notch on the space grey model.

Quote from: not_anton on November 02, 2021, 17:35:12
"You also forget to mention that M1 Max has double the memory bandwitch of M1 Pro."
CPU memory bandwidth is the same across both options, 100GB/s per CPU cluster.

@etny
Agree, this is not a laptop for us the developers. Apple really targeted video editor here - I mean, look at the hardware video accelerator that was a $2000 option for Mac Pro, and Apple puts it in every single MacBook Pro now. I guess they knew the supply would be limited, and hard targeted the group of customers who the most expensive configurations with lots of SSD space and memory. At a very special Apple upgrade price.
Waiting for 2022 to see a slim fanless M2 MacBook Air with the same pro screen.

That is not exactly right!
The 100 GB/s is for just one core, which is more than what you can get in other laptop complete CPU packages. Two clusters can use 224 GB/s, and all cores can use 245 GB/s. So more bandwidth available on the Max, even more so when consider that in many circumstances the CPU clusters on a M1 Pro won't have access to all the 200GB/s.
Considering its performance while compiling don't know why it cannot be considered a laptop for developers, unless you are a web developer.

Several negative bullet points are nitpicky for me. There shouldn't be more cons than pros, considering this overall killer device. Like PWM with 15 Kilohertz, which is so high that less than 1% will even notice. Or that power charger, which you can upgrade for +20$. Maintenance is better than before, ports and battery can be replaced.

Hands down, regarding the overall package (power, silence, battery, screen, speakers, trackpad, ports, webcam, unibody...) this is the best laptops out there on the market currently, full stop.

Andreas "We Would've Liked" Osthoff

Hello peeps, thought I'd just chime in regarding PWM. Although I'm not skilled in the art of reading oscilloscopes, I'd like to say there's too much focus on the frequency of PWM. Yes it's important, but amplitude is perhaps even more important.

For instance, the vertical (voltage) scale of the chart on this MacBook Pro 14 would indicate that the amplitude is actually quite large compared to that of the Macbook Air which is measured in mV!  Another thing is also the duty cycle (horizontal).

Could someone kindly correct me if I'm wrong?

I've had my MacBook Pro 14 (M1 Pro 10 core, 14 GPU, 16GB, 1TB) for about a week now coming from a 6th gen ThinkPad X1 Carbon (i7, 16GB, 512GB).  There's only one thing I like better on the ThinkPad and that's the keyboard.  The keyboard on the MacBook is very good but that generation of X1 had an exceptional keyboard. 

Everything else is a significant improvement from the X1 which was no slouch to begin with. The battery life is double that of the X1 on its best day at a display brightness that's actually usable in a well lit room.  The display is in OLED territory without being a battery draining power hog. The system is ready before I even get the lid all the way open and the fingerprint scanner works every single time, which is not something I can say for the ThinkPad. It's a little chunkier and heavier than the X1 but it feels extremely solid.

As for the notch, I don't understand what all the fuss is about. It's in the menu bar and I don't even notice it. Ever.

This is my first Mac after being a Windows user and developer from the 3.0 days so I'm still getting used to the OS but it's been a pretty easy transition. I really like having the integration between this and my iPhone.

Yeah, it was stupidly expensive but so was the X1.  I think I'm going to find it was worth every penny.
.

Wow how Apple can pretend that's a 120hz display with a such slow response times? Also lack of the 160hz wifi and outdated hdmi is a shame for such expensive device. The notch is weird, someone show them a modern android phone, with a "hole punch" design  ;D, if they put an 4k iphone selfie camera, that could make sense, but it's still a sub-par 1080p module. Performance is amazing though, good work was done there, but battery life is not so great - 2020 pro model (13 inch) lasted longer from smaller battery, why difference is so significant for the browser test? Safari doesn't yet support 120hz, and i assume HDR mode only kicks in for videos, and not active when displaying web-pages.

Apple says these are using true 10-bit depth panels, is it true?

QuoteThe latter is unfortunately limited to HDMI 2.0, so 4K displays are limited to 60 Hz (HDMI 2.1: 4K@ 120 Hz or 8K@ 60 Hz)

Authors should know for a long time that HDMI 2.1 does NOT support 8k @ 60Hz even in antique 24-bit mode in 4: 4: 4 lossless mode. Only 4: 4: 4 mode is monitor mode. All others are only for playing video with loss of quality.
Thus, the minimum standard that supports True 8k for monitors is Display Port 2.0, which, to the shame of the entire IT industry, has not been added to chips for more than 2 years!
Apple had a real chance in 2021 to literally wipe its nose both NVidia and AMD and Intel (the latter has HDMI 2.1, formally with Tiger Lake, but most laptop manufacturers shamefully downgrade integrated HDMI 2.1 to the shame of 1.4b or the outdated 2.0b) - the key (!) (which is funny) to the developers of the DP2.0 standard, but did not add it to their hardware even in 2021. But I did not take this chance to become the leader in the Display Port version of the ports.

This is the first.

Second,

The obvious jamb with the power supply is that it is not grounded. It's a shame!

Third, the authors of the review irresponsibly approached the study of the screen and ditched about its obvious defect due to miniLED (how many zones are there, why did the authors not find out this and did not report to the readers in comparison with the iPad?) - due to the fact that miniLED is NOT an analog OLED (where each pixel glows independently, only microLED can be its real analog!), Halos around text and symbols are clearly visible at the borders of zones in the iPad. It will be the same here (100%), the only question is how noticeable (depends on the number of zones)? Not a word about this in the review.

The rest of the shortcomings in general are described above.

I can only note that for 2021, especially its end - 16GB of soldered memory in a laptop for 2,200 euros is a shame. The minimum size should be 32GB. Chrome or firefox alone will survive 10-12GB in normal work. What is left for other software, especially considering that the built-in igpu also needs system memory? 1-2 VMs and no memory at all, even for a browser ...

Of course, this device is not for developers or any serious work with content and data. This is a toy for blondes.

but when we come to win|lin analog we will not see a lot of options here. only x86 arch is good because common supported without any emulator. but ram 16gb, screens are terrible quality - they all  not like in macbook. What's alternative 64gb ram + mini-led screen glossy, color accurate in now days on win|lin laptops?

yes, 16gb laptop for 2021 is a toy for blonds. but let's not forget that there is version 64gb in macbook pro and most windows laptops sad to say have 16gb LP memory with not upgradable. Yes in 2021 it's really shame because almost the same am people can use in phones, tablets... Browsers can take minimum 10-50gb of memory. Standalone application chrome based like ssk, wwhatsa, sla, and a lot of others for one instance use ~ 1.2gb memory. ffigma sometimes can use 4gb on one tab. How it's possible to work with 8,16gb ram? How about emulators, VM, containers?

Quote from: NikoB on November 07, 2021, 18:08:15
Thus, the minimum standard that supports True 8k for monitors is Display Port 2.0, which, to the shame of the entire IT industry, has not been added to chips for more than 2 years!
Apple had a real chance in 2021 to literally wipe its nose both NVidia and AMD and Intel (the latter has HDMI 2.1, formally with Tiger Lake, but most laptop manufacturers shamefully downgrade integrated HDMI 2.1 to the shame of 1.4b or the outdated 2.0b) - the key (!) (which is funny) to the developers of the DP2.0 standard, but did not add it to their hardware even in 2021. But I did not take this chance to become the leader in the Display Port version of the ports.

USB 4 has DP 2.0 alternate mode. And the same should be true for TB 4. I have no use for it but I've assumed it's the case for all laptops with USB 4. AFAIK it's not optional for computers. Marketing it as USB 4 without supporting mandatory features would surely be in breach of licensing terms.

I'm disappointed by the measured battery life. Relative to the M1 MBP 13. How is that possible? I struggle to believe it's the processor. It might be less frugal but by this much? I suspect it might be the display. Really, I would prefer a proper low-power display and none of this mini LED nonsense. It doesn't really benefit me in what I do and the way it works creates problems. If you have two zones with different levels of back light, then setting pixels to the same value will result in different outcomes. Because you're blocking a certain portion of the light and if the backlight differs, the outcome differs. You can try compensating for it but one thing you can't compensate is the black. That is if you want to be able to switch off black zones. The only thing that can help you there is a panel that has exceptional contrast even without these tricks. That can have a deep black even at full brightness. Then, zones could be used as a power-saving measure rather than contrast-enhancing one. The so called halo shows you the real contrast of the panel rather than the imaginary one (i.e. how well it blocks backlight). And the zoning makes it stick out like a sore thumb.

Quote from: Canbe on November 08, 2021, 12:30:10
yes, 16gb laptop for 2021 is a toy for blonds. but let's not forget that there is version 64gb in macbook pro and most windows laptops sad to say have 16gb LP memory with not upgradable. Yes in 2021 it's really shame because almost the same am people can use in phones, tablets... Browsers can take minimum 10-50gb of memory. Standalone application chrome based like ssk, wwhatsa, sla, and a lot of others for one instance use ~ 1.2gb memory. ffigma sometimes can use 4gb on one tab. How it's possible to work with 8,16gb ram? How about emulators, VM, containers?

Most 15" and above Windows laptop has removable RAM and SSD. MacBook Pro from 2013 until now has always RAM soldered in.

I appreciate the discussion around screen brightness and outdoor use. My primary reason to buy would be the ability to get to 1,000 nits on productivity software such as Word, PowerPoint, etc. Can anyone answer whether these applications would be at the higher brightness or limited to 500 nits. Thank you in advance.

Is it possible to make battery runtime test again with "low power mode" battery option enabled?

In addition to selecting battery "low power mode" please set display profile to "500 nit" one, not "1600 default". Actually, this should make it consume the less possible power as it can. It would be very interesting to see how results differs. I wonder, can it reach same time as macbook air m1 for playing video / wifi browsing test or not.

SDR brightness is not limited to 500 nits at all.
You can create custom preset and limit it to any higher values (up to 1000 nits for full screen). Then you have a dedicated preset for eg. very bright environment and can always switch to it. Only downside is that brightness will be locked to chosen value.
Eg. 800 nits makes screen crazy bright.