NotebookCHECK - Notebook Forum

Quote- single-channel RAM in our model

A rhetorical question for those who senselessly test such models in single-channel mode - can you practically point out at least one idiot buyer who will use a laptop in single-channel mode? A 16 ram module is immediately bought to enable dual-channel mode. But against the backdrop of an inflated huge price, this module costs a penny. Hence the direct question - what is the point of testing an incomplete memory configuration? Readers expect something else from you. I don't see a problem with having a set of memory modules to install on my own for full-fledged tests.

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It is surprising that in other "top" models, Lenovo some reason output Display Port 2.0, although not a single Alder Lake in reality can physically support it at 80Gb/s (otherwise it is not DP2.0 at all). Well, okay, these are all the pranks of dumb-headed marketers. Again, despite the fact that Intel assures that all Alder Lake will support HDMI 2.1, Lenovo's marketers decided not to output it in this series.

Move on. Sustained performance is unacceptably low, easily losing to AMD models, even from 2020! It's a shame! Despite the fact that in terms of noise, even with a ridiculous one heat pipe and one cooler, there is a margin - there is only 25dB (if you believe the measurements), despite the fact that the laptop, again, according to the measurements, consumes considerable 27W at this moment. For some reason, in other models, with 2 coolers and large heat pipes, Lenovo engineers disgraced themselves much more with such consumption. How so?

It turns out that the buyer of this model obviously does not reach 35-40% of the performance of 1240p (which should have at least 28W in PL1) in PL1 mode, although there is a margin for the noise shelf. This is all very strange...

At the same time, the processor again does not gain in the impulse PL2, because, according to Intel specs, it should consume 64W (and the PSU allows it). Why was it limited in PL1? It was completely possible to set even 70W/30W - PL2/PL1. Especially if add a second heat pipe, which would increase the weight by no more than 100-120g. Well, it would weigh 2.050kg, so what? 14" T models weighed more than it model for 12 years ago...

The weight of a laptop (especially with a PSU) is already too large, why save on a cooling system by weight?

Well, you can immediately cancel that the shameful memory is only 3200, instead of ddr5 4800, so the buyer is seriously deprived in terms of memory speed, which can be seen from the tests (even if we extrapolate the dual-channel mode). Despite the fact that there is no discrete chip and a dedicated vram for heavy tasks. The built-in video chip is seriously deprived in terms of memory bandwidth.

The keyboard is again completely uncomfortable - stupidly some of the keys are narrowed even in width, and the entire Fx row is absolutely not suitable for blind typing after switch from a full-fledged desktop PC keyboard.

The ports are located completely unsuccessfully, moreover, because. exhaust on the left. Why weren't they brought out like in L5Pro, including power in the back? Again sticking out to the side perpendicular to the case, the usb-c power plug, which is weak in strength, breaks out at once in this position by a right-handed person for sofa use.

I can hardly imagine the target audience of this craft. It's not portable, it's not light, it's not fast, it doesn't have a 4k screen like it old versions (and all versions from fhd to 2.5k have poor viewing angles only 170gr and no more 120-165Hz options like I5Pro/L5Pro and lower contrast), it loses the L5Pro in almost everything (especially the 2021 model), which firms are buying up for workers without giving a damn about the pointless Thinkpad series with a bunch of pointless restrictions. Clearly, the T line is getting lower and lower in status from Lenovo marketers...

One big disappointment. Even in the noise shelf below 30-31dB they could not fit in as in the early models of the E series type..A relatively solid (but pointless due to size and weight) slow "typewriter" in terms of performance expected from 2022 models on Alder Lakes SoCs...

I'm sorry, the exhaust is on the right, of course (where the right-handed person has a hand on the rug with the mouse, it will sweat more from this, and as you know, most people in the world are right-handed), which does not change the essence - why is the power supply not behind a separate plug on backplate like L5Pro? Well, or left-right on the edge ( as for example in the cheap S340 series, where the power port is completely successful at the very edge, in terms of using it from a power supply unit (but the power supply unit itself is completely unsuccessful without grounding and in terms of balance in power outlets) of the usual durable angular round power plug (complete with an adapter to usb-c). Usb-c is the same as a backup power and charging port, if for some reason the normal one was not at hand. An attempt to save a penny on the reliability of use from a PSU leads to idiotic unreliable technical and ergonomically uncomfortable solutions. Engineers probably understand all this, but are they now deciding something?

I draw your attention to the fact that Lenovo itself assures that the model weighs 1.65-1.67kg, and the author of the review measured almost 2kg ..

I haven't encountered any laptop that ever did the display right.  Desktop monitors tend to have pixels sizes too large, while laptops tends to have them too small.  You know the story of Godilocks and the 3 Bears...   The optimum laptop screen size is FHD+ 16:10 at 17.3 inches.  Wished some company was smart enough to make smaller laptops with same pixels density as the 17.3 incher above.

Quote from: NikoB on September 24, 2022, 17:42:04I draw your attention to the fact that Lenovo itself assures that the model weighs 1.65-1.67kg, and the author of the review measured almost 2kg ..

No, Lenovo states "starting at 1.65 kg". This is with the lower-capacity battery. also, the 2.5K screen could be lighter than FHD screens. In the review, I stated: "Our model weighs 1.95 kg, which is mostly due to the selected battery capacity."

according to RAM: We test the machines as they are sold. I think most users won't be aware they run a system in single-channel mode. It is better to test with what the machines come with. It would be possible to add dual-channel benchmarks on top, yes. But we all know how the graphics or system performance is with dual-channel. there are similar systems in the comparison field or you can add them by yourself. no need for us to do several hours of additional testing, at least not for every machine which comes in single-channel config.

@Hunter: I agree. My T410 with 1440x900 approves. Also my X201 with 1280x800. But I also like the doubled resolution so that scaling can be set to 200 %. My HP 8740W 17,1" 16:10 @FHD+ DreamColor is the best, too @100% scaling.

Hi!
Thanks for the review. Are you able to tell me when you will post a review of the AMD version? It seems like it would be a better choice, but it lacks thunderbolt and I have been reading about Bluetooth issues on it. It would also be interesting to see a comparison between the FHD+ LP and the 2.5k displays (the quality and power consumption)

Quote from: Mikolaj on September 24, 2022, 23:08:31Hi!
Thanks for the review. Are you able to tell me when you will post a review of the AMD version? It seems like it would be a better choice, but it lacks thunderbolt and I have been reading about Bluetooth issues on it. It would also be interesting to see a comparison between the FHD+ LP and the 2.5k displays (the quality and power consumption)

We will def. test it! Since we have a lot of review units on the waiting list, it will take a couple of weeks!

Quote from: Hunter2020 on September 24, 2022, 20:06:49The optimum laptop screen size is FHD+ 16:10 at 17.3 inches.

The higher the ppi, the higher the picture quality. This is absolutely and undeniable by anyone.

Thus, at the end of 2022, buying a screen of less than 4k is simply ridiculous, it's another matter that we are going to sell outright garbage for crazy money at a much higher price. And it looks like an oligopolistic conspiracy of the entire "workshop" of laptop manufacturers. Because a monstrous difference in the retail price between a 4k panel and an fhd panel is not observed by me in practice. The difference is tolerable, and the difference in the quality of the picture, text, photo, video is HUGE. You have to be either an idiot or a blind man to argue this, especially in business models where high 3D performance is not required. In games, even a dumb person should understand that the resolution from which fhd is obtained by integer division is many times better in sharpness than miserable 2.5k screens - neither this nor that - ppi is still small, but lowering the resolution in games will not work to fhd, because in this mode, everything will be muddy.

When I preached this in 2008-2007, in many places on the forums, I understood the technical and worldly illiteracy of the usual crowd of inhabitants. But now, when almost everyone in at least a relatively developed part of the world sees smartphone screens with 300+ ppi in front of them, what kind of troglodyte do need to be to deny the need for high ppi on a laptop and monitor screen and the extreme importance of this high resolution compatibility with fhd? Thus, we again come to a resolution of at least 4k on laptops, as the minimum required for a high-quality picture and, of course, with a color reproduction of at least 72% + NTSC.

The meaning of a high ppi is absolutely clear - to eliminate any eye fatigue (read the nervous system, i.e. the brain) during forced automatic refocusing from the picture itself to its pixel structure. It simply should not be visible at any acceptable distance. For laptops/monitors it is 30-50cm. For smartphones 20-25cm. The lower the ppi, the worse the quality of the picture. The text benefits from this as much as possible. vector fonts, i.e. are simply scaled and become this even clearer, i.e. more ergonomic.

As I wrote many times, 8k resolution will finally close this topic forever for humanity. On screens up to 32" (and you really don't need more in most cases), the picture will always look like a paper printed on a laser printer. And what is again great - 8k easily turns into 4k if necessary or fhd (for 3D if fps is lower then 60 in "ultra" quality) by integer resizing, i.e. 16 pixels 8k in 4 pixels 4k or 1 pixel fhd without any loss of pixel sharpness (i.e. only the ppi of what is displayed will suffer, but not the pixel sharpness on the screen).

Everyone who sat on a 4k 15.6 screen will never voluntarily switch to an fhd screen if they have the right to choose (and it is just artificially and intentionally limited, although, as I wrote above, the difference in the retail price between a 4k panel and fhd is not so huge as % from retail price of mid-range laptops, so that some of the buyers voluntarily refuse this). As even the example of this 2022 model shows, Lenovo deliberately excluded the 4k screen option, although on the contrary, it had to sell this(and all series from mid-range) series (taking into account its price) exclusively with a 4k@120Hz screen with a really working VRR, which is important not only in games, but also in everyday use (same exactly-timed video, no VSync visual glitches). And they sell us rubbish outdated for 5-7 years as a "modern" screen..

Everything has been ready for a long time in order to throw out all the panels with ppi below 250 into the trash. And this needs to be done with some kind of strong-willed decision, as the late Steve Jobs once gave a powerful kick to the rotten cell phone market. But the new "Steve Jobs", alas, is no more, at least on the visible horizon.

As in smartphones, then higher the batch producing globaly, the lower the cost of one copy. And given the already small difference in price relative to the overall price of a laptop (and the screen is what you will be looking at for years), all this old-fashioned panels with low ppi steaming looks extremely disgusting in 2022.

Moreover, even a game in fhd resolution on an 8k panel will obviously look visually better for eyes, more monolithic, because the pixel spacing will be reduced to invisible to the human eye even when 16 pixels of 8k panel display the one logical pixel in fhd mode.

Quote1.The higher the ppi, the higher the picture quality.
2....at least 4k on laptops..

NikoB. I can't agree with you.
1.the higher the ppi is not a guarantee of the higher picture quality. The resulting quality depends on several factors. PPI is just one of them. Info that you have fHD/QHD 4k,... monitor(laptop, TV, ..) means nothing. The quality(technology) of the panel is more important than its resolution.

2.fHD is perfectly fine for 16". You can't see pixel structure on it(it's problem focusing from short distance).
Guess what. I have a 30" 16:10 Dell monitor with only QHD(2560x1600) resolution and I'm happy with it. I can see something like pixel structure from +-15 cm, but my standard viewing distance is 60-70cm.

Quote from: ondro on September 25, 2022, 18:30:14the higher the ppi is not a guarantee of the higher picture quality. The resulting quality depends on several factors. PPI is just one of them.

It should be quite obvious to everyone that when I write about the difference in ppi, all other factors are either the same in quality or better at higher ppi. And now it really is.

Quote from: ondro on September 25, 2022, 18:30:14.fHD is perfectly fine for 16".

Absolutely not. You are just lying. However, any owner of a smartphone can make sure that you are lying, so what do you expect? You don't have an ace up your sleeve.

Quote from: ondro on September 25, 2022, 18:30:14You can't see pixel structure on it(it's problem focusing from short distance).

Read above. Subpixels have nothing to do with it, pixels are visible perfectly from 30-50cm, as well as the presence of an interpixel grid (and this is the Achilles' heel of all IPS). Moreover, this 16" fhd, to its complete disgrace, merges a 16-year-old TN screen with a resolution of 1680x1050 15.4" over the solidity of the picture. And this is also a real empirical experience, although it wins in terms of color reproduction and viewing angles vertically (and far from all horizontally). Reading text and looking at photos from the point of view of the solidity of fonts and photos is much more pleasant for me on this TN from time immemorial. Is this progress? This is a complete failure of progress.

Well, or look at same the shame of the latest SSDs on the pci-e 5.0 bus - manufacturers boast of large-block and multi-threaded read/write speeds up to 10-12Gigabyte/s, and in 4k IOPs in one thread (which is most critical) all are also shameful less than 100Megabyte/s..

Gradually, here and there, new bottlenecks appear in the industry, which ordinary people, who have little understanding of IT, are simply aware of. They are not given it. Now the entire computer manufacturing industry is rapidly approaching a technological dead end, which simply does not allow providing new levels of computational speed to solve new level of aims in a new class of software so that everyone can notice a qualitative leap in progress. Quantum computing and neuroprocessors based on ordinary logic are useless today and in the next 30 years in the mass case for that new civilization jump. Here we are throwing beads purely on trifles, something that affects our senses and provides us with ergonomic comfort at least at such a primitive level, which should have long been the minimum standard (like the official minimum wage, although it is there, hehe , nuances...)

Quote from: ondro on September 25, 2022, 18:30:14I can see something like pixel structure from +-15 cm, but my standard viewing distance is 60-70cm.

I am very sorry that you have such poor eyesight. This is trouble. (

Quote from: NikoB on September 25, 2022, 19:44:16

Quote from: ondro on September 25, 2022, 18:30:14I can see something like pixel structure from +-15 cm, but my standard viewing distance is 60-70cm.

I am very sorry that you have such poor eyesight. This is trouble. (

i want to have a 1 to 1 talk with you. Your knowledge is too good to not share. Can you message me? Please.

You missed one detail in the review: you can't fit a standard SSD that has electronic components on the bottom side, you will break either the SSD or the M2 slot off the motherboard. The M2 slot has no distance to the motherboard, unlike seen on other laptops or desktop motherboards. That's probably also the reason why Lenovo does not offer it with a 4TB SSD - no model will actually fit.

Mine came also without a heat spreader with a Hynix SSD - it has no components on the bottom side (so lays flat on the system MB).

But... you have a soft start keyboard backlight.. yeah such details that everyone needs but can't fit a standard SSD.

Verdict: overengineered CRAP, don't buy this.

The review is nice but in reality the things are a little different.
1. Everywhere is announced that the weight is 1.6 kg - the real weight is ~ 1.9 kg
2. The laptop the windows 11 boots very slow, about 50 sec. My 10 years old ThinkPad W530 boots win 11 in about 15-20  sec. Sometimes it does not boot at all, just black screen or hangs on Lenovo inscription. In such cases I have to remove the RAM temporarily and it will boot again, then I have to insert the RAM back and it works.
3. SSD has no Heatsink. It come with an SK Hynix SSD 256GB PC611 M.2 2280 80mm PCIe Gen3 x4 NVMe. I changed it to Seagate FireCuda 530 4 Gb which has no enough space on bottom and enters enter very tightly. On stressful tests gets very hot and needs Heatsink which is missing. This new SSD worked few days and now is not detected in BIOS any more! But it works as external disk. Now, I don't know what to do, to return the SSD or the Laptop.
4. Problems with external monitors. The laptop is connected via thunderbolt 4 to ThinkPad Thunderbolt 4 Docking station and 2 external monitors are connected to the station. These monitors periodically are flickering. I tried everything what I know and what I found in internet but nothing helps :(
So many issues but all hardware tests are 100% OK.

Corrected version:
The review is nice but in reality the things are a little different.
1. Everywhere is announced that the weight is 1.6 kg - the real weight is ~ 1.9 kg
2. The Windows 11 boots very slow, about 50 sec. My 10 years old ThinkPad W530 boots Win 11 in about 15-20  sec. Sometimes it does not boot at all, just black screen or hangs on Lenovo inscription. In such cases I have to remove the RAM temporarily and it will boot again, then I have to insert the RAM back and it works.
3. SSD has no Heatsink. It come with an SK Hynix SSD 256GB PC611 M.2 2280 80mm PCIe Gen3 x4 NVMe. I replaced it with a Seagate FireCuda 530 2 Tb, which has no enough space on bottom and enters enter very tightly. On stressful tests gets very hot and needs Heatsink, which is missing. This new SSD worked few days and now is not detected in BIOS any more! But it works as external disk. Now, I don't know what to do, to return the SSD or the Laptop.
4. Problems with external monitors. The laptop is connected to ThinkPad Thunderbolt 4 Docking station and 2 external monitors are connected to the station. These monitors periodically are flickering. I tried everything what I know and what I found in internet but nothing helps :(
So many issues but all hardware tests are 100% OK.

@Anatol,
you cannot use double sided M.2 SSDs in ThinkPads. If you do, this can lead to catastrophic failure, as the SSD PCB will bend.

You need a single sided SSD, like the one shipped from factory.

The throttling is a bit extreme and does result in lower performance than really necessary based on the throttlestop performance. My only question around that is how was the 30w figure decided on? IE was 35w tried but the laptop got too hot and throttled below that level?

Quote from: Brad Collins on November 14, 2022, 20:02:21The throttling is a bit extreme and does result in lower performance than really necessary based on the throttlestop performance. My only question around that is how was the 30w figure decided on? IE was 35w tried but the laptop got too hot and throttled below that level?

Yes, 35 W will get too hot > 90 °C with throttling on the long run, which is really a shame. The T16i features just one heatpipe. The AMD model has two heatpipes and can cool ~40W. The P16s, either with AMD or Intel, has a 30 or 35 W power limit I believe.

Quote from: Marvin Gollor on November 27, 2022, 01:21:44The T16i features just one heatpipe. The AMD model has two heatpipes and can cool ~40W.

This is about the same absurdity as in the Huawei D16 2022 - despite the fact that Huawei replaced the colder AMD processor with a hot Intel one, they removed the second cooler, heat sink and heat pipes. It's just wild. And even more wild that they cut off the power supply for the i5/i7 with only 65W PSU, which is not enough even to serve the i5 in an impulse (PL2 mode) with a consumption of up to 95W by Intel datasheet (i7 has 115W in PL2).

What is striking is that earlier, on the contrary, manufacturers tried to please solutions with Intel, and did everything there with the highest quality, compared to the reduction in price in the same models with AMD. But now it has taken on an absolutely fantastic form in terms of the degree of absurdity.

Although in 2022, when AMD appeared in SoC TB4 (USB40) and HDMI 2.1/DP2.0(but DP2.0 is cut in half by bandwidth up to Zen4), manufacturers, obviously in collusion with Intel, deliberately do not bring these ports out of the AMD SoC in exactly the same models as on Intel.

Moreover, if we take Intel AlderLake-H - there is generally NOT have TB4.0 logic in SoC by datasheet (it have only external TB4.0 controllers support), but unlike mobile AMD chips. Those. apparently, an external TB4.0 controller is installed there, which further increases the cost of the solution, but what is striking is that in AMD models, where USB40 is explicitly declared for SoC (Zen3+) and it is enough just to solder cheap chips and power circuit of the logic built into the SoC, they still intentionally do not output it on ports. And sometimes just disabling it in bios - like in Legion 5 Pro AMD 2022 vs L7 2022 - although Legion 5 Pro Intel soldered an additional TB4.0 controller!

Rather than collusion, I think it is penny-saving when not programming UEFIs and designing board layouts to meet USB4.

Robert, your assumption does not explain why then Lenovo does not save on exactly the same models with Intel and, moreover, adds a more expensive external controller. In Intel's P/U series (and even in Gold series-type atoms) there is no need for this - there is a built-in TB4 controller.

It turns out that Lenovo (like others) intentionally worsens solutions with AMD, but deliberately increases the cost of solutions with Intel. A quick question - who will buy more expensive Intel solutions (and are guaranteed to be noisier and have worse operating time from exactly the same battery)? What are these buyers? And why is Lenovo targeting them and not those who want the full version with AMD?

I know part of the answer, but I wanted to know your point of view...

My theory assumes manufacturers have solved it for Intel but save to avoid solving it for AMD.

It doesn't make sense to save pennies for power piping, unless Intel has a secret influence to sell more of their models - because in practice, for a non-expert, these models on the shelf definitely look more advanced right away - they have TB4.0 (despite the fact that they are also significantly more expensive), and many with AMD Zen3+ do not, although TB4 is built into Zen3+, but not in AlderLake-H (they put an external TB4.0 controller, which just additionally increases the price). It turns out absurd - Zen3+ has a built-in controller (for which the consumer still pays as part of the SoC forcibly), but negligent manufacturers do not output it, although power piping / interface chips are much cheaper than the same with the external TB4.0 controller in AlderLake- H.

And only in L7 there is no difference at all, except that since 2022 Intel has become 40-50% faster on average due to greater consumption and some progress in design. Previously, this difference did not exist, and until the 11th generation, Intel generally merged in speed with terrible force in Zen2 and there was nothing to cover them with, except for advanced chips, which, by a "miraculous" coincidence, AMD did not add to mobile processors for several generations. Although earlier Intel assured that it would be easy to license Thunderbolt to anyone. But obviously AMD she put a spoke in the wheel intentionally. Because only in Zen3 + there was an alternative right in the SoC - USB40. All this smelled bad initially and it was obvious to all experts.

Now, AMD has only 2 advantages vs Intel classmates - they are much quieter and last 25-30% longer on battery life, but slower in pulse and in PL1 mode, if Intel's laptop manufacturer did not give a damn about the noise level. There is nothing more to cover. In terms of chips (given the presence of neuroDSP version 3 already), Intel is one step ahead again.

Intel, with the help of the "invisible hand of the market", haha, makes it so that AMD has always been one step behind, and when this does not work, they simply seem to bring manufacturers down so that they do not make solutions based on Intel clearly more profitable in terms of a set of key characteristics.

Well, the fact that the AMD fabless company is guaranteed to give it a loss in the competition with Intel, because. when making a profit, Intel can cut prices much faster, but AMD can't, especially since Intel's market niche has again grown sharply in both laptops and PCs since Q3 2022. Intel can simply afford to dump when necessary and bring in a suitcase of money manufacturers. And when there is no such need to simply rest on our laurels for years collecting all the profits from the market, as it was before Zen and how it is becoming again now. AMD cannot win in a situation where the market is dictated by advanced factories of chip manufacturers, and not by buyers of their products, as happened successfully in the world at the time of the release of the Zen architecture, on which Intel temporarily burned out. But now everything is in the past for AMD and Zen4, this is apparently their swan song. Then there is no chance to compete without a significant breakthrough. Of course, assuming the old conspiracy theory that AMD is just Intel's antitrust pad in the US market, it won't go anywhere. But on the other hand, the times are not the same, and the global market and the economy are dying, and geopolitical interests are now even more important than competition. to which the US antimonopolists for decades, and so deliberately (or for a bribe) turned a blind eye.

Quote from: Marvin Gollor on November 27, 2022, 01:21:44

Quote from: Brad Collins on November 14, 2022, 20:02:21The throttling is a bit extreme and does result in lower performance than really necessary based on the throttlestop performance. My only question around that is how was the 30w figure decided on? IE was 35w tried but the laptop got too hot and throttled below that level?

Yes, 35 W will get too hot > 90 °C with throttling on the long run, which is really a shame. The T16i features just one heatpipe. The AMD model has two heatpipes and can cool ~40W. The P16s, either with AMD or Intel, has a 30 or 35 W power limit I believe.

Thank you for the reply, I found a review of a T16 with an i7 1260p and the MX550 with the twin heatpipe design. They only tested with Cinebench R23 but the result of 11843 is similar to the notebookcheck results on the Acer Swift X 16 and Lenovo Yoga 9i 14" of 11571 and 10735 respectively. On the R15 loop the long term TDP you measured on those two is about 35w and 37w so I'm guessing with the two heatpipes that 30-40w TDP as you mentioned is correct.

If so that might result in quite a large difference in CPU performance whether you pick the GPU or not - UNLESS the i5 ones have a really low TPD and the i7 ones have a higher TDP and perhaps a more aggressive fan speed. It'd be good to see an i7 1260/1270p review with and without the GPU to see what happens, then again a P16s version with the same CPU and GPU setup to see what happens.

Anything to say for the battery life of T16 Intel versus AMD?

Can I expect AMD to be better or worse?

Also, does a Samsung 980 Pro SSD fit into this?

It has already been written many times (and officially confirmed in psref descriptions from Lenovo) - with the same models, the difference is up to 30% in favor of AMD versions (although they can be up to 1.5 times slower when running from a power supply in performance mode, but they are also much quieter, on average). It should be borne in mind that the AMD memory controller is always 25-30% slower than that of Intel classmates, what is sucks AMD versions in software as Photoshop.

This laptop may not be a good choice for zoom type work.  The sound is scratchy and the video camera is low resolution.   I also found the position of the mouse pad odd -- it is big and awkwardly placed -- it is hard to navigate the keyboard and use the pad.  There is an extra key on the far left bottom row, that is dismaying -- it's not the usual key.  The killer problem is the display/sound together -- maybe would be OK for someone doing excel spread sheets or word, but it wasn't designed (evidently) for zoom.