NotebookCHECK - Notebook Forum

And for me, the main conclusion is again that playing with such wild noise on "gaming" laptops has become even more impossible than before. And their consumption has become simply wild, unthinkable 10 years ago.

And everything is also clear that it is 2 times more profitable to buy a desktop with 4090 than a "gaming" laptop. It will be quieter at times and much faster, at least 1.5 times faster on the video card. And that decides everything.

Why do people (except for shift workers and sailors) buy "gaming" laptops, wasting a lot of money and doing sadomasosism "playing" with wild much more noise and with 1.5 times less fps? I don't understand...

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The best that the harfware x86 industry could do today is an optical link with a cable length of up to 50m and a bandwidth of 50GByte/s+. To put away these insanely consuming and noisy videocards in the back room or another room, connecting them to the laptop via optical eGPU and forgetting about the wild noise, although the processor requires same cooling...

It's better to put the entire laptop or desktop in the back room. It will leave on the table in living room only a monitor, keyboard, mouse and an optical cable with a bandwidth of more than 50 GByte/s+ plugged into a docking station for peripherals.

I consider RTX desktop or RTX notebook for use at home in possibly different rooms and the garden. The most relevant aspects are price, noise and sufficient speed (about 3080 10GB desktop, 4080 Laptop or faster). Desktop noise is 37dB+, notebook noise is 39dB+. Both are acceptable. This leaves price as the decisive factor. A notebook may be a bit more expensive but not exaggerated. Desktop dGPUs are overpriced so I wait. Secondary aspects can influence my decision.

Notebooks are reasonably priced at times. Nvidia's greed has taught us patience so I am patient;)

Notebooks are not per se bad but one must avoid impulse purchases.

"the RTX 4090, RTX 4080, and the RTX 4070 Ti desktop cards offered significant performance and efficiency uplifts compared to their Turing counterparts."

Don't you mean Ampere?

For me the relevant aspects are performance, price, screen (bright enough to let me go to the balcony)  and noise.
I don't mind noise up to certain level when it is pushing. But when i am listening to music, seeing a movie, navigating normal web stuff - youtube etc -, office work the computer should be absolute silence. Zero fans. it is intolerable that super processors are unable to work silently in several models for work that requires small performance

Note for NBC.
it would be interesting to compare the efficiency of 4090 175 watts models with the 4080 also 175 watts models.

Another point on calculating energy efficiency is the time spent to do a job.

It was unfortunate that NBC did put a Blender GPU test or similar.
For example a 50w GPU that takes 8 hours to do a render is significantly less power efficient than a 200w GPU that takes 1 hour.

Was the Neo 16 tested with the Oasis attached btw?
I hope in thestandalone review, you guys will include how does sound, thermals and performance can differ with the liquid cooling attached:)

Quote from: Leventebandi on February 09, 2023, 20:38:29Was the Neo 16 tested with the Oasis attached btw?
I hope in thestandalone review, you guys will include how does sound, thermals and performance can differ with the liquid cooling attached:)

Yes. It was tested with the Oasis attachment.
Will pass on the feedback regarding comparisons with and without the Oasis. Hopefully, whoever is reviewing the device will be able to accommodate the request :)

Quote from: LL on February 09, 2023, 19:11:05Another point on calculating energy efficiency is the time spent to do a job.

It was unfortunate that NBC did put a Blender GPU test or similar.
For example a 50w GPU that takes 8 hours to do a render is significantly less power efficient than a 200w GPU that takes 1 hour.

That's a great suggestion, LL. Will see if we can incorporate that in our test routines going forward.

Quote from: LL on February 09, 2023, 19:04:39Note for NBC.
it would be interesting to compare the efficiency of 4090 175 watts models with the 4080 also 175 watts models.

Do you mean including desktop cards limited to 175 W? Or comparing two laptops with the aforementioned GPUs? If it's the latter, it should be already available in the compare. You can also add any configuration to the compare if it's already in our database.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on February 09, 2023, 18:50:54"the RTX 4090, RTX 4080, and the RTX 4070 Ti desktop cards offered significant performance and efficiency uplifts compared to their Turing counterparts."

Don't you mean Ampere?

Ah yes. Thanks for spotting it. Corrected :)

Thanks you Vaidyanathan for all your replies.

QuoteOr comparing two laptops with the aforementioned GPUs?

I mean since the laptop 4080 and 4090 have same maximum TDP 175w it would be interesting to check if 4090 performance came from spending more energy (despite same TDP) or because it is more efficient than 4080 and try to find the reason for that advantage.
To do that would need 2 models with 4090 and 4080 and the 175w TDP for both.
Probably the best way to compare should be with same model line that have both configurations.

Quote from: LL on February 10, 2023, 19:09:27Thanks you Vaidyanathan for all your replies.

QuoteOr comparing two laptops with the aforementioned GPUs?

I mean since the laptop 4080 and 4090 have same maximum TDP 175w it would be interesting to check if 4090 performance came from spending more energy (despite same TDP) or because it is more efficient than 4080 and try to find the reason for that advantage.
To do that would need 2 models with 4090 and 4080 and the 175w TDP for both.
Probably the best way to compare should be with same model line that have both configurations.

Ah that way. At the moment, there aren't too many 4090/4080 samples floating around. Might be possible once we get hands on more devices. :)
Right now, my guess is as good as yours... the 4090 has more hardware than the 4080 and still can work in the same TDP envelope, so it is bound to be more efficient.

I think on the desktop Founders Edition cards, the RTX 4090 consumes 19% higher power at stock settings compared to the 4080 but is also able to offer 34% higher fps in Witcher 3 4K Ultra.

However, the 4090 mobile is actually the 4080 desktop while the 4080 mobile is a cut-down 4070 Ti (duh!). So taking that into account on the desktop side, you get a 6% higher power consumption for a 30% higher fps in Witcher 3 4K.

Of course, the memory subsystem is vastly different on desktop boards which needs to be factored in as well. But I expect this trend to continue on mobile as well, although we need more devices at similar TDPs for a better idea :)

Quote from: Vaidyanathan on February 11, 2023, 06:24:28At the moment, there aren't too many 4090/4080 samples floating around.

Do you know why? I thought there would also be some Aliens and Legions. So far only Titan and Razer 16 plus a few reviewers each got one other different notebook. But some got several presamples, too, which are hardly reviewed yet. I expected hundreds of reviews on Feburary 7 but only a dozen appeared. Do some manufacturers only send tiny numbers of review samples to carefully selected reviewers, which would not reveal the real weaknesses? It was completely different for desktop graphics cards: countless "reviews".

Quote from: Vaidyanathan on February 11, 2023, 06:24:284090 mobile is actually the 4080 desktop while the 4080 mobile

No. As the first tests showed, even in MSI Titan - mobile 4090 loses to the desktop version exactly 1.5 times. Therefore, the mobile 4090 is equal to the desktop 4070 and slightly faster than the desktop 3080Ti.

And not only that - as tests have already shown, the mobile 4090 still does not pull current projects at 60fps+ in 4k, so it is garbage against the background of the desktop one, which pulls everything.

Playing on a laptop is stupid. Noise, slow, dangerous for hardware and quickly becomes obsolete without the possibility of an upgrade. And at the same time more expensive than the desktop build 1.5 times faster...

NikoB, please explain "dangerous for hardware"!

Couple days ago i got scores in Blender benchmark:



NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Laptop GPU 8256.73 4

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 Laptop GPU 5992.52 1

For comparison the top desktop 3000 series card:

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Ti 6163.43

Currently the database do not have any 4000 Laptop card in database, those results were erased at least for the moment.

Quote from: RobertJasiek on February 11, 2023, 07:34:13

Quote from: Vaidyanathan on February 11, 2023, 06:24:28At the moment, there aren't too many 4090/4080 samples floating around.

Do you know why? I thought there would also be some Aliens and Legions. So far only Titan and Razer 16 plus a few reviewers each got one other different notebook. But some got several presamples, too, which are hardly reviewed yet. I expected hundreds of reviews on Feburary 7 but only a dozen appeared. Do some manufacturers only send tiny numbers of review samples to carefully selected reviewers, which would not reveal the real weaknesses? It was completely different for desktop graphics cards: countless "reviews".

Not sure exactly why in this particular case, but in general a lot goes behind the scenes. It all depends on how individual OEM product marketing/PR wishes to seed samples, Nvidia's own plans (or even AMD's/Intel's, for that matter), segregation of samples to different media for an equitable distribution, and so forth. Standalone desktop GPUs are relatively less-complex pieces of hardware compared to a full laptop computer with its own display, audio, input, security, etc.

Ideally, manufacturers would want their products to be shown in the best light possible. But no product is perfect. Independent testing such as ours will uncover most weaknesses — a simple stress test alone can tell a lot lol.

Even though you may find a particular product on the shelves on launch date, the reviews can still take some time to come out. That's because not all companies take samples from retail and use for media sampling or vice versa. Sales, marketing, PR, are different verticals with their own defined budgets with little scope for cross-connect unless it's a major marketing exercise.

Quote from: NikoB on February 11, 2023, 14:51:34

Quote from: Vaidyanathan on February 11, 2023, 06:24:284090 mobile is actually the 4080 desktop while the 4080 mobile
No. As the first tests showed, even in MSI Titan - mobile 4090 loses to the desktop version exactly 1.5 times. Therefore, the mobile 4090 is equal to the desktop 4070 and slightly faster than the desktop 3080Ti.

Yes. I mention in the same comment that memory and power differences account for performance differences between the same GPU on the desktop and laptop. I was only referring to the actual GPU die and not the performance equivalence.

Quote from: LL on February 11, 2023, 19:18:21Couple days ago i got scores in Blender benchmark:



NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Laptop GPU 8256.73 4

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 Laptop GPU 5992.52 1

For comparison the top desktop 3000 series card:

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Ti 6163.43

Currently the database do not have any 4000 Laptop card in database, those results were erased at least for the moment.

Which particular Blender test is this? We are also in the process of sorting out Blender 3.3 CUDA anomalies with RTX 40 series. Apparently, the test needs to be done twice in quick succession due to the manner in which the render kernels are built. But this is only with RTX 40 cards, though for some strange reason.

Quote from: Vaidyanathan on February 13, 2023, 04:56:11We are also in the process of sorting out Blender 3.3 CUDA anomalies with RTX 40 series. Apparently, the test needs to be done twice in quick succession due to the manner in which the render kernels are built. But this is only with RTX 40 cards, though for some strange reason.

If you still have the already tested RTX 4000 dGPUs, can you please update with the correct Blender tests?

Quote from: RobertJasiek on February 11, 2023, 15:28:07NikoB, please explain "dangerous for hardware"!

As an analysis of the failure statistics on the forums showed, for those who use "gaming" laptops constantly in games (for hours every day) and without any optimizations, as is from the manufacturer, iron dumps most often begin after 1.5 years, at best after 2.5 of the year. This means. that you will simply lose iron outside the warranty period with a high probability. On a desktop, this is impossible, if only because motherboards and video cards have a warranty period of at least 3 years, and not 1-2 years (more often 1 for gaming hardware), as in laptops. Therefore, playing on laptops is a priori stupid for all of the above reasons. Noisy, hot (dangerous for iron), slow and expensive. It is a priori impossible to play multiplayer on the couch - there is no such comfort of using the keyboard as on the table and in the chair - but if on the table - why do you need a laptop? Buy a lightweight surfboard and put an eGPU on the table via TB4/USB40 eventually, or just have both a gaming desktop and a lightweight (hardware) 15.6-17" laptop for surfing on sofas and beds. It's obvious that 2 devices are more convenient, but for serious games, a desktop is always better, cheaper (at the same speed), quieter and safer for hardware, because it has a much better cooling system.

When you mention iron, do you mean the chemical element or do you use the word figuratively?

I deliberately demonstrated, once again, the level of "AI" from google translator. What even a child of 3 years old understands - it does not understand the context. Like all these "ChatGPTs" the same nonsense.
;)

Quote from: RobertJasiek on February 13, 2023, 09:19:08If you still have the already tested RTX 4000 dGPUs, can you please update with the correct Blender tests?

Will surely look into this.

Which desktop GPU does the RTX 4080 laptop compare to? Is it faster than a RX 6800XT in 1440p gaming? Thanks.

RTX 4080 Laptop @ 175W ~ RTX 3080 10GB Desktop

I see, thanks @RobertJasiek