NotebookCHECK - Notebook Forum

I am on a zbook which is pretty much an elitebook and they are a great device, the longest laptop I have ever used. I really like the serviceability aspect and that it remains relatively cool.

I am also running linux on it.

While newer elitebooks are a step down from the older ones, they are still better than what the thinkpads. I just hope the dragonfly isn't the direction elitebooks are going in.

That said, the biggest drawback with elitebooks is they can get pretty darn expensive. They start out okay price but if you want any decent specs, the price skyrockets quickly. I normally buy laptops at around $1300 price but had to pay $2500 for mine which had similar specs to a $1300 laptop. But at the time, there wasn't much choice as poor quality glossy screens were the craze, and a near 100% srgb matte screen, decent touchpad and good keyboard made it pretty much the only choice.

Oh forgot to add, what difference does it make to have an extra barrel connector? I'd prefer an extra USB PD port instead. Actually a USB-PD on both sides of the laptop is the best so I have flexibility.

End of the day, the biggest thing I had with laptops is the power cord keeps ripping, they don't make them as durable as they used to. Not to mention since they tie the connection portion to the brick, when the cable connector gets damaged, I pretty much have to buy the whole thing.

With USB, all I gotta do is just replace the USB cable and not the brick.

QuoteIt's very true that EliteBooks typically don't perform as well as the modern EliteBooks do

QuoteWith the dGPU-equip models

Loki, please proofread, I beg of you.

(Also, for the point about redundant charging, it's worth noting that the Thinkpads can still charge through both the USB-C/TB3 port as well as the standard USB-C one). Other than that, another solid read.

HP offers more robust security software with their EliteBooks that outpace offerings from Lenovo and Dell.  Just a few of these security apps are:  HP SureSense, HP SureStart, HP SureRun, HP SureRecovery, and HP SureClick, not to mention HP SureView (1st display offering in this class of laptops).

I failed to mention, HP laptops are far more suitable for "laptop" use.  Lenovo's and Dells will fry your thighs!  HP also runs their CPUs at lower temperatures, thus prolonging CPU life.

Quote from: not a padawan on April 14, 2020, 00:05:52

QuoteIt's very true that EliteBooks typically don't perform as well as the modern EliteBooks do

QuoteWith the dGPU-equip models

Loki, please proofread, I beg of you.

(Also, for the point about redundant charging, it's worth noting that the Thinkpads can still charge through both the USB-C/TB3 port as well as the standard USB-C one). Other than that, another solid read.

Hi, thanks for the first note, I missed that during my review before publishing. I'm not sure what the issue would be with "dGPU-equip" though. Are you expecting it to be "dGPU-equipt"? I'm fairly sure both are correct.

Quote from: A on April 14, 2020, 00:04:36
Oh forgot to add, what difference does it make to have an extra barrel connector? I'd prefer an extra USB PD port instead. Actually a USB-PD on both sides of the laptop is the best so I have flexibility.

Hi,
The benefit of a barrel + USB-PD charging is redundancy, as mentioned. If the USB-PD charging circuitry fails in the laptop (which is possible), or the connector itself breaks, a barrel connector on an easily removable cable is a lot easier to service than resoldering a connector.
Basically, the main argument is for durability, not convenience.

Hope that helps

I used to have the 840 G5 (120Hz 1080p privacy screen, RX 540, i7-8650u, ~$2900 NZD). I returned the first laptop over a cluster of dead pixels. The second laptop arrived with damaged LCD light distribution layer and a defective trackpad. Both have very noticeable coil whine. Needless to say the QC is garbage. The RX 540 throttles to 300-400MHz after reaching 65°C, making the performance worse than the iGPU. If the cooling fan activates, it won't slow down or turn off unless I place the laptop in sleep mode. I had to sell the laptop at a ~$1700 loss. I'm not a fan of the xx90/x1x series but if I have to choose between them and the EliteBooks I'm going with the former.

- random T480 owner

Typing this on a ProBook 430 G6. Your review of this model noted the similarity to EliteBooks. I know some enterprise features (e.g., vPro) are reserved for EliteBooks, but is there a significant difference in build quality? I've been very happy with the ProBook's port selection, build quality, serviceability/upgradability, and how quiet and cool it runs. It could stand to be a few ounces lighter, but other than that it's just about perfect for a business laptop. And the pricing is hard to beat - I got this last year for around $400 after various discounts with a quad-core and IPS panel, although other specs like RAM and storage were bare minimum so that I could do upgrades myself.

Quote from: Loki Rautio on April 14, 2020, 01:03:23

Quote from: A on April 14, 2020, 00:04:36
Oh forgot to add, what difference does it make to have an extra barrel connector? I'd prefer an extra USB PD port instead. Actually a USB-PD on both sides of the laptop is the best so I have flexibility.

Hi,
The benefit of a barrel + USB-PD charging is redundancy, as mentioned. If the USB-PD charging circuitry fails in the laptop (which is possible), or the connector itself breaks, a barrel connector on an easily removable cable is a lot easier to service than resoldering a connector.
Basically, the main argument is for durability, not convenience.

Hope that helps

I get that, but what is the advantage of say simply having multiple USB-PD?

Aka, is 2X USB-PD any less redundant than USB-PD + Barrel?

If anything, it is less redundant. If I am on a trip and my USB port breaks, I can use another USB port. But if my redundant connector is a barrel, I'm still out of luck unless I happen to bring along a universal charger which does barrel and usb-c.

If you are saying the barrel connector is more durable than a usb port, I would disagree, that would depend on how it is implemented. Sure USB ports are smaller than barrel ports, so they are easier to break, but that is a design issue. Nothing is stopping them from making larger soldered ports that are more durable.

Not to mention, what I learned from years of micro-usb is magnetic cables are awesome! The reason why most ports are damaged is due to strain put onto the port when the wire is pulled. With magnetic usb cables, it limits the amount of strain, so not only is the port taking less stress, the cable is also much less likely to break. And there are magnetic 100W USB-PD cables.

Quote from: A on April 14, 2020, 01:53:17

Quote from: Loki Rautio on April 14, 2020, 01:03:23

Quote from: A on April 14, 2020, 00:04:36
Oh forgot to add, what difference does it make to have an extra barrel connector? I'd prefer an extra USB PD port instead. Actually a USB-PD on both sides of the laptop is the best so I have flexibility.

Hi,
The benefit of a barrel + USB-PD charging is redundancy, as mentioned. If the USB-PD charging circuitry fails in the laptop (which is possible), or the connector itself breaks, a barrel connector on an easily removable cable is a lot easier to service than resoldering a connector.
Basically, the main argument is for durability, not convenience.

Hope that helps

If anything, it is less redundant. If I am on a trip and my USB port breaks, I can use another USB port. But if my redundant connector is a barrel, I'm still out of luck unless I happen to bring along a universal charger which does barrel and usb-c.

If you are saying the barrel connector is more durable than a usb port, I would disagree, that would depend on how it is implemented. Sure USB ports are smaller than barrel ports, so they are easier to break, but that is a design issue. Nothing is stopping them from making larger soldered ports that are more durable.

Hi,

Again, the main point isn't that the barrel ITSELF is more durable. Arguably it is since it's a more simple design, but that's a whole rabbit hole. Regardless, the point is that it increases the device's longevity and overall durability having two entire different charging circuits and methods. Plus, as mentioned, barrel charging connectors are often on socketed cables, not soldered. If the barrel connector becomes damaged, it's a cheap repair.

So yeah, main point is that your device will be more repairable, and as a result it'll have a longer potential lifespan and be more "durable."

I don't even know what a "slim-tip charger" is but this has gotten me worried about my current XPS13 with only 2 C ports, the thing is they don't spin like the barrels, and the barrels often leave some wriggle room, unlike the C ports which are completely solid. That and the fact that C ports have far more contacts than the barrel and far more complex control circuitry certainly makes them prone to breaking.
BTW, anybody who needs all the ports in the world can consider VAIO, though their QC is also somewhat questionable and customer service is pure s***, at least in the US.

Quote from: A on April 14, 2020, 01:53:17

Quote from: Loki Rautio on April 14, 2020, 01:03:23

Quote from: A on April 14, 2020, 00:04:36
Oh forgot to add, what difference does it make to have an extra barrel connector? I'd prefer an extra USB PD port instead. Actually a USB-PD on both sides of the laptop is the best so I have flexibility.

Hi,
The benefit of a barrel + USB-PD charging is redundancy, as mentioned. If the USB-PD charging circuitry fails in the laptop (which is possible), or the connector itself breaks, a barrel connector on an easily removable cable is a lot easier to service than resoldering a connector.
Basically, the main argument is for durability, not convenience.

Hope that helps

I get that, but what is the advantage of say simply having multiple USB-PD?

Aka, is 2X USB-PD any less redundant than USB-PD + Barrel?

If anything, it is less redundant. If I am on a trip and my USB port breaks, I can use another USB port. But if my redundant connector is a barrel, I'm still out of luck unless I happen to bring along a universal charger which does barrel and usb-c.

If you are saying the barrel connector is more durable than a usb port, I would disagree, that would depend on how it is implemented. Sure USB ports are smaller than barrel ports, so they are easier to break, but that is a design issue. Nothing is stopping them from making larger soldered ports that are more durable.

Not to mention, what I learned from years of micro-usb is magnetic cables are awesome! The reason why most ports are damaged is due to strain put onto the port when the wire is pulled. With magnetic usb cables, it limits the amount of strain, so not only is the port taking less stress, the cable is also much less likely to break. And there are magnetic 100W USB-PD cables.

I use two types of magnetic cables too but I'm not aware of 100W PD cables, maybe they no longer transmit data?

Quote from: S.Yu on April 14, 2020, 02:09:11
I use two types of magnetic cables too but I'm not aware of 100W PD cables, maybe they no longer transmit data?

They do, both data and power. Though not all of them would say support thunderbolt 3, so you gotta pay attention to the amount of pins. Full USB would be 20 pin, Thunderbolt would be 24 pin.

Also, I should add it might make sense to get a 100W USB-PD magnetic adapter over a whole cable. As those can often times be cheaper and you can reuse the USB-C cable/charger that came with the laptop rather then letting it collect dust.

First of all, the title of this article is misleading. It should have "Opinion:" in its title, as most parts of this article are based on the author's opinion. I think the title should also be "Considering an alternative to modern ThinkPads? Try Elitebook" instead of what it has right now, as the article itself does not compare modern Elitebook with classic ThinkPad at all. The entire article compares a modern ThinkPad with a modern Elitebook. I was quite excited when I read the title because Notebookcheck had some great articles regarding old ThinkPads, but I have to say I am disappointed with this one.

Then it comes to the discussion of charging ports. This is the first and only article I have seen that prefers a dedicated DC charging port than USB PD, with the only reason that USB-C charging port is more likely to fail. While the USB-C issue with recent ThinkPad is real, there is no evidence that USB-C charging ports in general are more likely to fail than DC charging port. The USB-C issue with recent ThinkPad is from a mal-functioning firmware, and the same firmware issue can happen to a DC charging port as well since some modern laptops use programmable circuits to manage charging. DC charging ports aren't magically more reliable than USB-C ports. My MacBook Pro had a faulty MagSafe 2 charging port after a year of normal usage. I don't want to sound like "I don't have this issue so it doesn't exist", but none of my USB-C equipped ThinkPad (X1 Carbon 5th, X1 Yoga 3rd, T25 Anniversary, P1, T495) had any issue with USB-C or Thunderbolt.

Other sections in this article do not show how Elitebook is "better" than a modern ThinkPad, with the only exception that Elitebook still has 2 RAM slots and upgradable M.2 slot for WiFi. Mostly, the article only shows that an Elitebook is a valid alternative option. Still, as I said in the first paragraph, nowhere in the article did the author compare a modern Elitebook with an "old" ThinkPad, which the title suggests. It doesn't show whether the Elitebook has drain holes like the classic thick ThinkPad, whether it supports battery hot-swap like classic ThinkPad, or whether it has comparable keyboard with a classic ThinkPad (not a modern one as we all know that classic ThinkPad has much longer key travel and taller TrackPoint).

Quote from: yfnew on April 14, 2020, 02:50:47
First of all, the title of this article is misleading. It should have "Opinion:" in its title, as most parts of this article are based on the author's opinion. I think the title should also be "Considering an alternative to modern ThinkPads? Try Elitebook" instead of what it has right now, as the article itself does not compare modern Elitebook with classic ThinkPad at all. [..]

Then it comes to the discussion of charging ports. This is the first and only article I have seen that prefers a dedicated DC charging port than USB PD, with the only reason that USB-C charging port is more likely to fail. While the USB-C issue with recent ThinkPad is real, there is no evidence that USB-C charging ports in general are more likely to fail than DC charging port. [...]

Other sections in this article do not show how Elitebook is "better" than a modern ThinkPad, with the only exception that Elitebook still has 2 RAM slots and upgradable M.2 slot for WiFi. Mostly, the article only shows that an Elitebook is a valid alternative option. [...]

Hi, and thanks for the feedback.

Regarding calling this an "opinion" piece: I don't think that'd be terribly accurate. Really, all I'm doing is comparing the current ThinkPads and EliteBooks in the context of a modern business laptop, not just a run-of-the-mill consumer laptop. It might seem like I'm just interjecting opinions as to what matters or not if you're not considering that, but what matters in a business machine is a lot different than an XPS. I'm sure you know that though.

Edit: After looking at the article on a different day, I do agree that this piece is certainly much more opinionated than I had originally thought while writing it. This has since corrected by marking this article as an opinion. I care a lot about being accurate and portraying my content as accurately as possible, so I am quite sorry about this.

I do understand the concerns over the title, but I do make it fairly clear in the abstract and beginning of the article (at least I think I am) that we're not talking about used or last-generation devices. I will consider adjusting the title to be a bit more clear though.

Regarding USB-PD vs barrels, I'm not saying that a DC port is "preferred" exactly. Again, as mentioned in the article, the benefit is repairability more than anything else. The focus of a business laptop is minimizing downtime as much as possible with reliable or easy to swap wear components. Charging ports would be considered a wear component. Since USB-PD ports typically aren't easy to be replaced, that's why DC charging ports are a necessity for serious business laptops. USB-PD is very useful as well though and should be included. USB-C durability is a whole rabbit hole which deserves its own article, assuming I make any good findings in the first place.

When it comes to the elitebook being a better option, the point of this article isn't to convince you, the point is to just introduce the idea to you. They certainly aren't worth writing off, like you mentioned in your own comment.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Quote from: Loki Rautio on April 14, 2020, 03:10:59
Again, the main point isn't that the barrel ITSELF is more durable. Arguably it is since it's a more simple design, but that's a whole rabbit hole. Regardless, the point is that it increases the device's longevity and overall durability having two entire different charging circuits and methods. Plus, as mentioned, barrel charging connectors are often on socketed cables, not soldered. If the barrel connector becomes damaged, it's a cheap repair.

So yeah, main point is that your device will be more repairable, and as a result it'll have a longer potential lifespan and be more "durable."

....


Regarding USB-PD vs barrels, I'm not saying that a DC port is "preferred" exactly. Again, as mentioned in the article, the benefit is repairability more than anything else. The focus of a business laptop is minimizing downtime as much as possible with reliable or easy to swap wear components. Charging ports would be considered a wear component. Since USB-PD ports typically aren't easy to be replaced, that's why DC charging ports are a necessity for serious business laptops. USB-PD is very useful as well though and should be included. USB-C durability is a whole rabbit hole which deserves its own article, assuming I make any good findings in the first place.

I've seen barrel connectors slotted and I've seen them soldered, I haven't gotten to replacing any of my ports so I haven't seen that part of the assembly myself, but when I looked at disassembly videos, I am pretty sure I remember elitebooks solder the barrel charge port (My previous Toshiba had a socketed one). There is also nothing stopping manufacturers from making socketed usb-c charge ports, it is simply a matter of design.

On the other reply, unless you stock your own components in-house, the cost of repair and time to repair is virtually the same. The reason in many workbooks come with on-site warranty either by default or an extra option. When I bought mine, it came with a 4 year on-site warranty. If it was a manual service component like keyboard, battery or etc, they just shipped me the part next day delivery. If it was something more like replacement of the screen, a technician came as it wasn't a serviceable part. The power port is definitely not a serviceable part. And they won't even bother soldering it, they would just replace either the motherboard or the daughter board (if the usb are on a separate board)

I would imagine in-house would do the same, then try to refurbish the component on their own time.

Now once you are out of warranty, that might become an issue but by then you are likely to replace the laptop anyways.

This is definitely an opinion piece, and the title is most certainly misleading. Modern Elitebooks are not an alternative to "old" ThinkPads.

QuoteLenovo's competitors are putting out arguably better business machines than the current ThinkPad lineup [..] HP's EliteBooks might be the best option for displaced fans.

This is an opinion.

QuoteIt's no secret to anyone that Lenovo has been cutting features from their recent ThinkPads, more notably in the "legendary" T-series.
[..]
in the T490, they cut Power Bridge (the technology and external batteries) too.

However, other companies have been working hard on their business machines. HP's 2018 redesign with the EliteBook 840 G5 was a legitimate improvement over the G4.

So, the lack of powerbridge is a negative for the T490, but perfectly fine for the Elitebook? How is this not an opinion?

QuoteRealistically speaking, most businesses are only going to be using that USB-C port for a single Thunderbolt 3 dock that can handle charging, among other things.

That's a valid point, you might only ever use one of those ports, but what if the USB-C charging was to fail?

Now, if we're going to start making such assumptions, the entire DC jack vs USB C charging debate is moot. From an enterprise point of view, it doesn't matter, USB C port failure is no different from DC jack failure, as has been already pointed out.

QuoteMicroSD Reader

The Elitebook does not have one.

QuoteA redundant power connector is arguably more important anyway. HP has also opted to keep its docking connector over time while Lenovo removed theirs back in 2018.

Both systems have a side docking connector, I don't see the difference here.

QuoteClearly, the power limit here is set much lower than it would otherwise need to be. With the right skills with using Throttlestop, one could likely get this machine running much faster (and a fair bit hotter) than it currently is.

This simply won't work on an Elitebook. Do note that even undervolting is not possible on these machines.

QuoteThe latest ThinkPads and EliteBooks feature very similar input devices. How comfortable the EliteBook's keyboard is would be a matter of personal opinion, but these machines aren't known for having "bad" keyboards exactly. Both devices also include a pointing stick of some sort in the middle of the keyboard.

The two have very different keyboards. Moreover, the touchstyk on the Elitebook does not allow for scrolling due to the absence of the middle button.

More upgradability is a indeed a plus on the Elitebook.

Elitebooks are reliable enterprise notebooks and definitely belong to the same class of notebooks as Latitudes and ThinkPads. This article tries a fair bit to convince the reader that Elitebooks are somehow better than ThinkPads, which is an opinion, and arguably a misleading one.

This is definitely an opinion piece, and the title is most certainly misleading. Modern Elitebooks are not an alternative to "old" ThinkPads.

QuoteLenovo's competitors are putting out arguably better business machines than the current ThinkPad lineup [..] HP's EliteBooks might be the best option for displaced fans.

This is an opinion.

QuoteIt's no secret to anyone that Lenovo has been cutting features from their recent ThinkPads, more notably in the "legendary" T-series.
[..]
in the T490, they cut Power Bridge (the technology and external batteries) too.

However, other companies have been working hard on their business machines. HP's 2018 redesign with the EliteBook 840 G5 was a legitimate improvement over the G4.

So, the lack of powerbridge is a negative for the T490, but perfectly fine for the Elitebook? How is this not an opinion?

QuoteRealistically speaking, most businesses are only going to be using that USB-C port for a single Thunderbolt 3 dock that can handle charging, among other things.

That's a valid point, you might only ever use one of those ports, but what if the USB-C charging was to fail?

Now, if we're going to start making such assumptions, the entire DC jack vs USB C charging debate is moot. From an enterprise point of view, it doesn't matter, USB C port failure is no different from DC jack failure, as has been already pointed out.

QuoteMicroSD Reader

The Elitebook does not have one.

QuoteA redundant power connector is arguably more important anyway. HP has also opted to keep its docking connector over time while Lenovo removed theirs back in 2018.

Both systems have a side docking connector, I don't see the difference here.

QuoteClearly, the power limit here is set much lower than it would otherwise need to be. With the right skills with using Throttlestop, one could likely get this machine running much faster (and a fair bit hotter) than it currently is.

This simply won't work on an Elitebook. Do note that even undervolting is not possible on these machines.

QuoteThe latest ThinkPads and EliteBooks feature very similar input devices. How comfortable the EliteBook's keyboard is would be a matter of personal opinion, but these machines aren't known for having "bad" keyboards exactly. Both devices also include a pointing stick of some sort in the middle of the keyboard.

The two have very different keyboards. Moreover, the touchstyk on the Elitebook does not allow for scrolling due to the absence of the middle button.

More upgradability is a indeed a plus on the Elitebook.

Elitebooks are reliable enterprise notebooks and definitely belong to the same class of notebooks as Latitudes and ThinkPads. This article tries a fair bit to convince the reader that Elitebooks are somehow better than ThinkPads, which is an opinion, and arguably a misleading one.

Quote from: 127.0.0.1 on April 14, 2020, 03:47:47

So, the lack of powerbridge is a negative for the T490, but perfectly fine for the Elitebook? How is this not an opinion?

To be honest, I'm not even sure why this is brought up. The loss of removable batteries is more of an issue then loss of powerbridge. The powerbridge is really obsolete since it served only 2 purposes:

1) Lets you make your heavy thinkpad lighter by bringing a smaller battery = these days laptops are fairly light and you can get more battery life by more compact batteries

2) Hotswap = you can hotswap most laptops as long as you are plugged in,, now of course that would be pointless, but not with USB-PD. Before if you had an external laptop battery, that thing would need AC to DC and DC to AC conversion built in making it a bulky mess. With introduction of USB-PD, you can charge the battery on same charger as your laptop and you can do straight dc to dc. Of course this becomes pointless now that batteries aren't removable.

So yes, this isn't a negative to either thinkpads nor elitebooks, its simply old tech that serves little benefit anymore.

Quote
The two have very different keyboards. Moreover, the touchstyk on the Elitebook does not allow for scrolling due to the absence of the middle button.

Elitebooks have better keyboards ;), of course that is an opinion but never liked the small arrow keys and poor placement of page up and down.

That said, you can actually do scrolling with pointstick. There are custom scripts for both windows and linux out there that place the scroll on right click mouse down. The right click menu opens on mouse up, so if you use the pointstick as right button is clicked, it will supress the right click menu and let you scroll.

Wow Loki I have never read such a an unqualified article. Sponsored by HP and clearly not not notebookcheck worthy. But probably notebookcheck will become a sponsored review side......

First of all, I'm NOT an HP agent!
I have too many laptops in the last 15 years, Dell precision, Dell latitude, Dell XPS, Asus rog, Dell Alienware, Hp zbook, Lenovo Yoga, surface pros, surface book, and..., but there are always an ELITEBOOK beside them at least for the last decade! Believe me, there are outstanding! Firstly I have an Elite book 840g1 and I was impressed with its durability and stability, after 3 years of massive 24/7 use, I changed it for Elitebook 840g3, and after some years, right now I throw all of my laptops and buy two Elitebooks and love them, Elitebook 1050g1 and Elitebook x3601030g3.
First reason is that they are durable and well designed, personally, I never enticed to buy a Thinkpad cause their ugly design even when they were better machines, besides classic and very bad displays of Dell Latitudes give me away of them, In my opinion HP and DELL company are the most complete lineup, and never see a series better than ELITEBOOKS, my only complane is their high prices.
Second, HP offers a compkete pack of softwares (sure click, sure start,... ) and they are not bloatwares! Especially they are desinged for some elitebooks series.
Thired,I really like their upgradeability, just take a look at Elitebook 840g3, in 2016 it supports DDR4 rams and enen more interesting NVMe ssds! Even the model of 2014 (840g1) considered an M.2 slote for 2242 sata ssd! Amazing.
One thing that I want to mention is that the HP was the first company that cut down Undervolt in their devices and especially on Elitebooks series, and when I counter whit its locked bios in this area I really disappointed and after that I understand it is necessary! just google "Plundervolt", I appreciate them for that, they were pioneer. In the future we will see more and more company do that at least for some business class of notebooks.
Moreover, when I checked more recent models of elitebooks like 1030g3, 1013g3, 1050g1 and 1040g5 I discoverd how they are sensetive on cpu heat and after low limit like 60~65 degree they prepare to cut down cpu frequency and because of that you can see their Cinbench scores is lower that Thinkpads, it really lead to more durability in terms of cpu and overall system board.
Another thing that I really like about business class of Elitebooks and even ultrabooks, is their low fan noise, my 1030g3 has two little fans and even when both of them spins at 4000+ rpm I never hear them.
Besides, consider privacy option named "sure view" + 700 to 1000nit display options is innovation in this line up, my 1030g3 display is mate 700 nit display + sure view, it's great! Consider writing on a mate screen, it's like you are writing on a piece of paper! Even more, hp active pen gen 2 is unbelievable, its redial menu is fantastic.
The last featur that I love is complete security features of some Elitebooks, consider sure run, finger print, face ID, and recently two enjoiable option like physical camera shutter close on/off and enjoyable hardware privacy on G6 series of Elitebook 840, ALL in one device! What will be better!?
All in all, for a long time before I read your article, I believed in this devices, and I think we will be able to see them even better on the near future, just refer to your top ten lists and see that:
>> the best 2 in 1 or convertible is an Elitebook (1040 g5)
>> the best 13" tablet is an elitebook (1013 g3)
>> the best 13.3" convertible is an elitebook (x360 1030 g3 and recently x360 1030 g4 and Dragonfly)
And in my opinion, 1050g1 is one of the best multimedia laptops in the world, just an amazing 4k screen enough for that.
Zbooks are not Elitebooks, they are better in some therms and I don't like to mention how good these workstation are!

Thx for reading.

I used to think notebookcheck is unbiased, not anymore.

Very uncharacteristic of Notebookcheck to allow articles of this kind on their website.

The article seems to conveniently forget that the 840 G6 is not representative of the entire Elitebook series, or perhaps they aren't familiar with x360 variants. The Elitebook x360 convertibles have no docking port at all.

Not only that, the 840 G6 does not have a micro SD card reader, unlike what this article states.

After being called out about this being an opinion piece by others, the clarification serves little purpose, except reinforce the "opinion" aspect of this article.

This is really poor journalism, and unbecoming of an otherwise high quality website.

more durable? lol we'll talk when the elite book has drainage holes like the t490

trash article

Quote from: nycan on April 14, 2020, 07:42:58
more durable? lol we'll talk when the elite book has drainage holes like the t490

trash article

Uhm, Elitebooks do have drain holes... That's something pretty standard in many business laptops.

Quote from: A on April 14, 2020, 07:54:27

Uhm, Elitebooks do have drain holes... That's something pretty standard in many business laptops.

nope. i have work issued elite book 840 g6 and 755 g5, neither has any drain holes. please check the manual if u don't believe me.

Nope... as an user of both new Thinkpads and Elitebooks I have to say HP is still as s*** as always. No serviceability, replacement parts are hard to get, bloated as f... and loud.

Imagine still buying a Thinkpad post 2018. Wouldn't be me.

Also to the nutcase that mentioned serviceability, LOL.

Quote from: 127.0.0.1 on April 14, 2020, 03:47:47
Moreover, the touchstyk on the Elitebook does not allow for scrolling due to the absence of the middle button.

I don't think Latitudes ever had a middle button, at least in the last 15 years, and you could still scroll just fine - just press both and it performs middle button click (activates scrolling mode, opens a link in a new tab, whatever). If it's configured that way, of course. Courtesy of drivers. Personally, I don't like scrolling using cursor. For me, middle button is all about tabs.

Keeping slim tip? c'mon...

I am going to replace my Thinkpad X240 the coming months, after using it for 6 years its time to upgrade. When it was new I could use it for 1 hours on one charge, now this has been reduced to 4, still not bad for a 6 year old battery. Also I would like some more performance.

I was looking at the new Thinkpads and when I saw the title of this article I decided to check it out, maybe I should go for an Elitebook instead.
I am not happy with the current laptop trend where they tend to flatten everything to stupid thin models that loose connectivity, heatsinks and battery capacity.

However what this article did was confirm my initial idea to go for a Thinkpad. The article makes it clear that the new Elitebook line is reasonably comparable to the new Thinkpad line but with lower performance and battery life.

So though Lenovo has been cutting Thinkpad features that we love (due to the great flattening, first initiated by the Macbook Air from the evil fruit company) switching to a HP does not help at all, it is just a lower performing alternative with very little real advantages.

wanted to type 12 hours, missed the 2 though

I am sorry, but this is a non-argument.

Quote from: nycan on April 14, 2020, 08:17:13

Quote from: A on April 14, 2020, 07:54:27

Uhm, Elitebooks do have drain holes... That's something pretty standard in many business laptops.

nope. i have work issued elite book 840 g6 and 755 g5, neither has any drain holes. please check the manual if u don't believe me.

I have one right beside me (ok, it's an 830 g6) and it sure does have them.
And yeah, it's right there in the manual (emphasis mine):

http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c06358101

QuoteHP Collaboration Keyboard
● Dual point, non-backlit, spill resistant with drain
● Dual point, backlit, spill resistant with drain, with HP Dura Keys, supports ALS

That said, the layout of the HP keyboard is a dealbreaker for me. No dedicated Home/Ins/PgUp/PgDn, instead there's three dedicated videochat buttons you can't even reconfigure! What were they thinking!

From the information provided I see nothing special about this non think pad product. The port selection, out of factory performance, design, keyboard are simply superior. Sure it's changed to get closer to a modern ultrabook but that doesn't mean it's as simp as some other business laptop offering. I especially don't understand the point of the writer when it comes to charging option. Both "slim tip" and "barrel plug" are useless standards when it comes to low power laptops. With usb c accepting up to 100W you can use a decent smart phone charger with these ultrabooks. Borrowing charger becomes simple. The fact that the thinkpad offers 2 thunderbolt 3 makes charging possible while using another usbc device. How is that ever a downside?

Lenovo customer support is very adequate in North America. If Lenono does not continue on this path to throw away these good quantities, think pad line will continue to dominate other brands business laptop segments.

Quote from: nycan on April 14, 2020, 08:17:13

Quote from: A on April 14, 2020, 07:54:27

Uhm, Elitebooks do have drain holes... That's something pretty standard in many business laptops.

nope. i have work issued elite book 840 g6 and 755 g5, neither has any drain holes. please check the manual if u don't believe me.

840g manual for keyboard:

Keyboard
HP Collaboration Keyboard
● Dual point, non-backlit, spill resistant with drain
● Dual point, backlit, spill resistant with drain, with HP Dura Keys, supports ALS
● Dual point, backlit, spill resistant with drain, with HP Dura Keys, supports ALS Privacy

Unless your work somehow found ones that aren't... they are definitely there...

I have an older zbook which is same design as the elitebook and it has drain holes I can clearly see. Looking at pictures of 840g I see drain holes too.

Quote from: Ac on April 14, 2020, 09:02:37
Nope... as an user of both new Thinkpads and Elitebooks I have to say HP is still as s*** as always. No serviceability, replacement parts are hard to get, bloated as f... and loud.

What? HP sucks, don't get me wrong but their elitebooks are pretty darn good, especially in serviceability. I've seen few laptops as servicable as these. Of course newer models are less servicable than older one but they still score a perfect score in ifixit.

I also had no problem finding common parts after warranty was out. I replaced my keyboard for example with a generic from ebay.

If there is anything bad about elitebooks, its the high prices.

Quote from: Joschn on April 14, 2020, 16:52:10


That said, the layout of the HP keyboard is a dealbreaker for me. No dedicated Home/Ins/PgUp/PgDn, instead there's three dedicated videochat buttons you can't even reconfigure! What were they thinking!

I suggest going for at least the 840 model, it has those buttons just fine. I like the HP layout on the 840s way more than the thinkpad one.

This whole articles premise is flawed, as the Lenovo X1 line of ThinkPads are not even considered here.  They are their top of the line models and are superior in so many ways.  PLUS, new models are on their way in a month, this article refers to models that have been out over a year.

Quote from: A on April 14, 2020, 20:28:22
I suggest going for at least the 840 model, it has those buttons just fine. I like the HP layout on the 840s way more than the thinkpad one.

Damn, you're right...never realized that - now that's a useful layout.

Too bad company only offers 830s or 850s (with its - at least for me - useless keypad and thus cramped, asymmetric layout) :(

QuoteCompare that to the simple repair of just unplugging and installing a new barrel and the benefits become clear.

The barrel jack on the elitebook 840 is soldered to the motherboard.

What a joke of an article.

Quote from: 7x22 on April 15, 2020, 08:06:17

QuoteCompare that to the simple repair of just unplugging and installing a new barrel and the benefits become clear.

The barrel jack on the elitebook 840 is soldered to the motherboard.

Correct, not to mention if you look at the other USB port that is on the left side, it has a small daughter board with a single USB. If a manufacturer wanted to make it easily serviceable without soldering, they can do the same for the USB-C port. So the whole notion of saying there is any advantage to barrels is silly.

For any laptop 100W or below, you are better off with 2 USB-C charge ports.

Though you technically aren't even limited to 100W. That is simply the specifications. A manufacturer can always go above those specs if they include slightly thicker cables. Just like the Dell XPS which had a 130W USB-C charger.

Quote from: A on April 14, 2020, 02:32:41

Quote from: S.Yu on April 14, 2020, 02:09:11
I use two types of magnetic cables too but I'm not aware of 100W PD cables, maybe they no longer transmit data?

They do, both data and power. Though not all of them would say support thunderbolt 3, so you gotta pay attention to the amount of pins. Full USB would be 20 pin, Thunderbolt would be 24 pin.

Also, I should add it might make sense to get a 100W USB-PD magnetic adapter over a whole cable. As those can often times be cheaper and you can reuse the USB-C cable/charger that came with the laptop rather then letting it collect dust.

Very interesting, from the sound of it that adapter is a female C on one side and male C on the other, with magnetic attachment in between, I've never seen such a product before.

You ThinkPad fanboys are outrageous. This is a well written and unbiased article, with multiple thought out viewpoints. I use an EliteBook 840 G5, it's phenomenal, and looks much better compared to the over-sized and clunky look of the Thinkpad.

Quote from: A on April 15, 2020, 08:58:15

Correct, not to mention if you look at the other USB port that is on the left side, it has a small daughter board with a single USB. If a manufacturer wanted to make it easily serviceable without soldering, they can do the same for the USB-C port. So the whole notion of saying there is any advantage to barrels is silly.

For any laptop 100W or below, you are better off with 2 USB-C charge ports.

Though you technically aren't even limited to 100W. That is simply the specifications. A manufacturer can always go above those specs if they include slightly thicker cables. Just like the Dell XPS which had a 130W USB-C charger.

Hi,

Yeah, it's true that you can put USB-C on a cable (and I believe I even mention this in the article). My point is that it's not terribly common, and in this case the EliteBook doesn't do that. Plus, someone mentioned (and you noticed) that the barrel was soldered, so yeah I'd agree there's little benefit to it regarding repairability.

Thing is, USB-PD is fairly more complicated electrically than just taking a standard DC power plug. Things can go wrong much more easily with that opposed to just a standard charging circuit to a charging rail.

USB-PD is great (I love it, I can charge my phone with my laptop charger), but until more companies start putting their cables on daughter boards, I'm not going to be the biggest fan of it.

Quote from: S.Yu on April 15, 2020, 15:14:01
Very interesting, from the sound of it that adapter is a female C on one side and male C on the other, with magnetic attachment in between, I've never seen such a product before.

I've used one of those 20-pin magnetic USB-C connectors before. They're pretty great (the 5 pin ones just break) and definitely reduce the amount of wear on the USB-C port. They tend to be pretty generic junk though, so don't be surprised if chunks of the plastic break off over time haha.

Quote from: Loki Rautio on April 15, 2020, 23:26:19

Quote from: A on April 15, 2020, 08:58:15

Correct, not to mention if you look at the other USB port that is on the left side, it has a small daughter board with a single USB. If a manufacturer wanted to make it easily serviceable without soldering, they can do the same for the USB-C port. So the whole notion of saying there is any advantage to barrels is silly.

For any laptop 100W or below, you are better off with 2 USB-C charge ports.

Though you technically aren't even limited to 100W. That is simply the specifications. A manufacturer can always go above those specs if they include slightly thicker cables. Just like the Dell XPS which had a 130W USB-C charger.

Hi,

Yeah, it's true that you can put USB-C on a cable (and I believe I even mention this in the article). My point is that it's not terribly common, and in this case the EliteBook doesn't do that. Plus, someone mentioned (and you noticed) that the barrel was soldered, so yeah I'd agree there's little benefit to it regarding repairability.

Thing is, USB-PD is fairly more complicated electrically than just taking a standard DC power plug. Things can go wrong much more easily with that opposed to just a standard charging circuit to a charging rail.

USB-PD is great (I love it, I can charge my phone with my laptop charger), but until more companies start putting their cables on daughter boards, I'm not going to be the biggest fan of it.

The point I was trying to making was that having a barrel in itself isn't a good thing, a good thing would be having 2 USB-C ports on both sides all of them connected to daughterboards. Look, I bought a cheap HP Chromebook 14 G5 for $150. (The lesser known HP 14-ca052wm models that are for some reason a lot cheaper, not sure why, maybe they are meant for foreign markets and imported, I don't know). That cheap $150 laptop has USB-C charging from both sides!, and both sides USB are on their own daughterboards!

So the question boils down, is asking the same from a product that cost 10-20X more that unreasonable?

I'm sure that it's not out of the question that there is less circuits on a barrel port, so in theory less can go wrong. But it isn't to the point where it is that significant. I venture if I had 2 USB-C ports to charge from, the ports will outlast the lifespan of the laptop easily.

From my experience, what usually breaks is the power connector cable. And I'd have a much harder time getting a replacement barrel cable then a USB-C cable. Especially since universal chargers tend to be a hit or miss. They work okay for a few months, but due to not being 100% fit, I think it causes the port more damage. Not to the point it'll break, but I've had cases where universal chargers stopped working on that laptop if you don't align the cable perfectly after a few months while official cable still works fine.

Maybe more news outlets should put pressure on manufacturers to design their laptops more properly. Then we can have more laptops with USB-C charging on daughterboards, cause if a $150 laptop can do it, is there any excuse?

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask. But if one decides to get a Thinkpad anyway, then is there any with

1) a good IPS sRGB display that is at least FullHD,
2) good battery capacity (at least six to eight hours browsing, reading and writing) and
3) good keyboard for a Thinkpad

in 14" or 15" size (14" preferred)? How far back in time would one need to go if buying second hand if none of the new ones are good? I plan to hunt through all the reviews unless someone has a quick answer to this.

Seriously. Have you used both, for extended (months?) period of time?
I've got to use, zbook14g1, zbook14g3, 840g5 (and zbook14g5, same machine), zbook14g6, t480, t490 and now t495.
#1 ergonomics
Trackpoint in hp is unusable, compared to tp. Precision sux, autodrift after a month. One plus, you can disable it, and remap keys to get four touchpad buttons.
Touchpad, different, but comparable
Keyboard? geez, don't even get me started. It's like comparing apple abomination to actual, or 5y older products.
HP keyboard is ok, if you use two, max three fingers to type, not for serious work. It was superb, and I loved it, in g4 and older machines.
And what about that thing in right upper corner? skype keys? non reconfigurable? Instead of pause/break and insert?¿??
And linux users love that? gimme a break.
That was major turnoff for me, I've preffered to get back my old g1, and returned all those hp.

#2 screen
Both sides has some awesome options, if you want to pay for them.
Most are too dim, washed out, or even low res (HDready... seriously??)
But, lenovo has that lowpower series, which I love.
And hp has that magical privacy filter. It's awesome, one and only, which I can use and recommend. And that was only reason to try that g5/g6 again and again. But no, I cannot use that crappy keyboard :/

#3 connectors
I must say, hp has upper hand here.
That "old" slide in port replicator connector is awesome. It works, always, and don't give a damn about thunderbolt.
Seriously, afair, noone used tb for replicators correctly. It's notoriuously crappy, disconnects all the time, and everyone (hp, dell, lenovo) has probems with tb. Just apple can do it properly, and thats a shame
Back to topic, hp has stable working port replicator. Lenovo does not.
Got both generations of pro and ultra replicators for t480/90/95, and let me say, it's not working good.
t480/90 use thunderbolt for connection, and you can read in many places, how hard lenovo dropped ball, with intel's helping hand, on tb3 in that laptops. Yes, all that rage was for tb3, integrated with usbc connectors, which is faulty.
And now, t495, with amd ryzen. Of course, there is only pure usb-c, which should work better, and dockstation isn't new, it's the same as for t480/90. But nope, nada.
T495 has perfectly fine working usbc, but when you try to use dockstation? things happen. It's ok, if you dont have anything connected to dock.
But lets say, you have lcd panel, or three, for comfort. If you are lucky, and insert t495 in sleep mode, with lid open, it may, or may not, work. One time, everything is fine, 1h later, nope, nothing is dected, just connected power brick. After all updates, lenovo suggests to do hard shutdown (shift+ctrl+click on shutdown windows), with laptop undocked. Then dock it, open lid, and start from scratch.
Great, thats awesome, just needed to write notes from meeting, do some drawings, spawn new cluster of machines, and run for another meeting.

#4 upgrades
Both companies have whitelisted components, so upgrade is possible for ram, and not too mutch more.
Hp may be pricier, but you can buy lte modem, ssd, or other parts. Lenovo? not so mutch. Maybe 2-3 years after release, when laptops go second hands.
But alas, dimms. Hp win there. You can have 32G ram (maybe even 64 now?).
Or upgrade to max later.
Lenovo says, that 32G is uspported, but: go and find one. That's not possible, everyone is selling 8g soldered + 8/16 in dimm slot.
There should be another one, with 16g soldered, and free slot, or just 32gb ram, but I wasn't able to buy it in europe. As usual, US have broader offer.

Finally. Lenovo won ergonomically.
I've got my old zbook14g1, and t495 + t490 from work. on paper, I'll want to preorder gen10 lenovo with ryzen 4000. But again, no, I need to test, read fine print, ask people, etc. Before buying worthless piece of plastic for 250euro.
Or maybe, hp will finally give and option to remap buttons? Or to exchange keyboard for non-collaboration in cto models?
We'll see.
Take care, stay healthy.

Please note that all comments below this one are from a previous version of this article. This article has since been rewritten completely, so previous comments don't reflect the content of this updated version.

I have to say, after using the HP elite book series for well over four years and the Lenovo just short of 9 months, I detest my Lenovo. The trackpad is super sensitive to commuter woes and I had to replace my first laptop within 3 months due to glitchy trackpad and broken webcam. That crappy plastic shell cracks easily, yes, but absorbs NOTHING. My second one has already cracked. What an absolute piece of crap. This was during corona, so I was only moving from room to room and barely commuting. Not robust at all! Also not impressed with RAM for doing high powered analysis that the hp seemingly handled better (though this may have something to do with the graphics card, about which I know nothing)

In contrast, I had my hp elite book for four years while commuting daily. What a beast! This thing handled drops, toddlers, slight water damage, and never even a glitch.

So, disagree after using both extensively

HP elitebook > Lenovo thinkpad

Thinkpads are so overhyped thanks to their fanboys. They always come with the worst screens and speakers and the least amount of features when compared the elitebooks and latitudes. I always go with the elitebooks, never regretted my desicion

You forgot one major factor when dealing with an enterprise environment.  The ability for the vendor to turn around inventory quickly.  I have no experience with ordering bulk quantities of Thinkpads, Dell however... I suppose they are ok if you like waiting 5 weeks for your items to be delivered.

HP's are great because of their ready to ship models.  It was the number one reason we switched from a Dell shop to HP.  I can get product from HP in 2 to 8 days, anything from Dell was a month or more at best.  Cost to performance the HP's cant be beat.