The ThinkPad X1 Carbon gets a major facelift this year to accompany the new Meteor Lake-H CPU and OLED panel with double the refresh rate of the previous generation. It's the best Carbon yet, but some performance problems remain unsolved.https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X1-Carbon-G12-laptop-review-First-major-refresh-in-three-years.803321.0.html
heh looks like it's time to start considering macbooks cheap
QuoteOur test unit has been configured with the Core Ultra 7 155H CPU, integrated Arc 8 GPU, 32 GB of LPDDR5x 6400 MHz RAM, and a non-touch 1800p OLED display for approximately $2700 USD.
$2,364.99 (https://imgur.com/vhDOYP5)
$335 less is quite a difference for "approximately", IMHO.
Lenovo US (https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx1/thinkpad-x1-carbon-gen-12-(14-inch-intel)/len101t0083?visibleDatas=704%3A32%2520GB)
All major CPU-related issues (weird throttling and such) will be fixed with the first BIOS update, Lenovo is always doing that for some reason with almost all their new laptops - release meh initial BIOS, then update to get a much better experience. Good review though, thanks.
yeah just add some cash and get a proper m3 pro laptop, it will stomp this meteor lake in everything
and stop lying yourself about "bios updates", this cpu is an m1 generation competitor
Quote from: Neenyah on February 25, 2024, 23:16:02$2,364.99
laughing at "Est value $3379.00, you are saving $1014"
thank you lenovo thank you
Quote from: lmao on February 25, 2024, 23:17:01yeah just add some cash and get a proper m3 pro laptop, it will stomp this meteor lake in everything
Certainly great choice, yeah, I agree.
Quote from: lmao on February 25, 2024, 23:17:01and stop lying yourself about "bios updates", this cpu is an m1 generation competitor
Not lying (myself), they always do that. It's like they rush initial version and then polish it lately, like they have no time to make it ideal from the start, it is really weird and it happens for years now with almost all Lenovo laptops. For example the X1 Carbon Gen 11 from this review with latest BIOS is wiping the floor with this Gen 12 here, by a lot (some 18-22%). Of course not in iGPU performance but its i7 CPU is not throttling anymore at all (like it was in their reviewed Gen 11 sample here in their database).
Quote from: lmao on February 25, 2024, 23:20:33Quote from: Neenyah on February 25, 2024, 23:16:02$2,364.99
laughing at "Est value $3379.00, you are saving $1014"
thank you lenovo thank you
Hah, yeah lol, they are always doing those wild prices for some reason, then slap "mad discounts" on them, crappy tactics but if it works for them... 🤷
How would this compare to the latest 14S with the same screen but AMD cpu?
It's funny, in the Asus Duo review we see how the top-end MeteorLake Ultra 9 185H quickly drops to 1300 points in CineBench R15. And here, in an even smaller laptop, a junior chip of the same series (but for which Intel allegedly asks an insane $500 in bulk from 1000 pieces, despite the fact that it clearly doesn't cost even half) weighs an insignificant 1 kg, instead of 1.7 kg in Acus and at only 25W (in Asus 20W) it produces as much as 1700+ points, albeit with some dips.
It is clear that no one will use such machines for lengthy calculations. But with a processor price of $500 alone, the consumer wants to see at least 3000 points in a 14" laptop 2024 under long-term load in CineBench R15. But instead, Intel takes us back to 2021. At best...
Cheating with consumption in 2022-2023 ended badly for Intel. Now it will be difficult for them to explain to consumers why they have to pay such monstrous money to get 2-3 year old performance from AMD...
Why no one anywhere comments on moving of the right CTRL?
Am I the only one, who uses right-hand shortcuts?
Or is it just possible to use the fingerprint reader as CTRL?
Not sure why but when testing you guys should test it playing a YouTube video and see if fans start spinning and it heats up just watching YouTube videos or movies. Has Lenovo resolved this problem yet of being able to just watch YouTube videos without fans going to max rpms and laptop heating up when an iPad can play videos on YouTube all day long with no fans and heat issues.
Quote from: MarkC on February 27, 2024, 09:14:03Not sure why but when testing you guys should test it playing a YouTube video and see if fans start spinning and it heats up just watching YouTube videos or movies.
My 2018 laptop remains completely silent even when playing Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 2011 at maximum fhd quality. The coolers turn on at minimum speed once every few minutes for a few seconds and turn off. And the simplest YouTube 4k@60fps is generally an easy task - it cannot even warm up to 60C with it, and the coolers turn on at 72-75C...
Therefore, any laptop 2023-2024 that is not capable of silently playing 8k@60fps on YouTube is absolute garbage.
Quote from: NikoB on February 27, 2024, 11:55:07Therefore, any laptop 2023-2024 that is not capable of silently playing 8k@60fps on YouTube is absolute garbage.
this only depends on if cpu has hw av1 decoder or not lmao
Quote from: MarkC on February 27, 2024, 09:14:03Not sure why but when testing you guys should test it playing a YouTube video and see if fans start spinning and it heats up just watching YouTube videos or movies.
I just tested 4K 60 fps on my X1C and it was dead-silent with low temps (measured by HWiNFO). I doubt that it's going to be anything different here with the newest gen considering massively upgraded/improved power efficiency in Meteor Lake.
Quote from: MarkC on February 27, 2024, 09:14:03Has Lenovo resolved this problem yet of being able to just watch YouTube videos without fans going to max rpms and laptop heating up...
Not an issue anymore [in Intel ThinkPads] for many years, since Kaby Lake Refresh.
Quote from: lmao on February 27, 2024, 14:01:00this only depends on if cpu has hw av1 decoder
All the latest lines (by core) of SoC have a hardware AV1 decoder. However, 8k is only needed for large 4k screens (or if you look at such a screen closely or there are a lot of complex static details) - because from 4:2:0 8k you get the reference 4k 4:4:4.
Approximately how from 4k 4:2:0 you get reference 1080p in 4:4:4.
When 8k monitors arrive, for reference 8k you will have to shoot video in 16k (4:2:0). And this is far beyond the limits of even very expensive optics...
Quote from: NikoB on February 27, 2024, 16:55:24Quote from: lmao on February 27, 2024, 14:01:00this only depends on if cpu has hw av1 decoder
All the latest lines (by core) of SoC have a hardware AV1 decoder. However, 8k is only needed for large 4k screens (or if you look at such a screen closely or there are a lot of complex static details) - because from 4:2:0 8k you get the reference 4k 4:4:4.
Approximately how from 4k 4:2:0 you get reference 1080p in 4:4:4.
When 8k monitors arrive, for reference 8k you will have to shoot video in 16k (4:2:0). And this is far beyond the limits of even very expensive optics...
lol why are you always responding with unrelated stuff
Quote from: lmao on February 27, 2024, 21:32:56lol why are you always responding with unrelated stuff
Good question (you won't get an answer). We can't understand that without an 8K monitor.
How is it with Linux, though?
I have been using the Carbon X1 since (probably) Gen 1 or Gen 2. I have a particular use case, that I suspect is shared by many other users, and that you might want to add to your review.
For 90%-95% of the time I use the Carbon X1 as a desktop, with an external monitor, keyboard, etc. In this configuration the lid is closed.
I have read elsewhere that the Gen 12 moved the cooling fan exhaust to the keyboard. You don't mention this, so is this (partially?) correct?
It also appears that it is thermal management that constrains or causes fluctuations in the Gen 12's performance.
Does running with the lid closed reduce cooling efficiency? If you re-ran the benchmarks with the lid closed, would performance be reduced?
(Side note – There is no longer a docking station offered for use with the Carbon X1. You have to use a docking hub like a CalDigit or Lenovo's own hub.)
Quote from: Chuck Davis on March 09, 2024, 23:24:34I have read elsewhere that the Gen 12 moved the cooling fan exhaust to the keyboard.
there's thermal imagery in 'emissions', exhausts are visible
Quote from: Chuck Davis on March 09, 2024, 23:24:34Does running with the lid closed reduce cooling efficiency?
varies from manufacturer to manufacturer and from laptop to laptop. i'd not expect miracles from lenovo
Quote from: Chuck Davis on March 09, 2024, 23:24:34For 90%-95% of the time I use the Carbon X1 as a desktop, with an external monitor, keyboard, etc. In this configuration the lid is closed.
ThinkPads are designed with that specific use case in mind (because of docks) so you won't have any issues.
Quote from: Chuck Davis on March 09, 2024, 23:24:34I have read elsewhere that the Gen 12 moved the cooling fan exhaust to the keyboard. You don't mention this, so is this (partially?) correct?
No, that's wrong, here are the fans and exhausts, below the lid at the bottom, when the lid is up/open or when it's fully closed they are freely open in both cases to push hot air outside the chassis, nothing is blocking them unless you block the bottom part of the laptop (placing it on a blanket for example):
https://imgur.com/a/j3XBHYv (https://imgur.com/a/j3XBHYv)
Quote from: Chuck Davis on March 09, 2024, 23:24:34Does running with the lid closed reduce cooling efficiency? If you re-ran the benchmarks with the lid closed, would performance be reduced?
Heat goes up, everywhere and with everything, laptops are not exceptions. So unless you flip it (bottom up, top to bottom) there will be some small performance loss like with any laptop with good cooling solution, but unnoticeable outside of benchmarks.
Quote from: Chuck Davis on March 09, 2024, 23:24:34(Side note – There is no longer a docking station offered for use with the Carbon X1. You have to use a docking hub like a CalDigit or Lenovo's own hub.)
Thunderbolt docks, yes. I have this one at work in the office, just one cable to my X1C and that's it; dual 4K screens running fine with a plethora of other ports if I need them, plus power delivery of course: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/docking/docking_thunderbolt-docks-(universal-cable-docks)/40b00135us (https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/docking/docking_thunderbolt-docks-(universal-cable-docks)/40b00135us)
Quote from: Neenyah on March 10, 2024, 10:56:30Heat goes up, everywhere and with everything, laptops are not exceptions. So unless you flip it (bottom up, top to bottom) there will be some small performance loss
no causality here.
if cooling system is designed adequately and top plate isn't used for emission, doesn't matter.
plus overall laptop power consumption and heat signature are lower due to screen being off, so it is (or should be) emitting less heat overall.
so basically depends on design choices. if they don't pump heat away efficiently enough or if their airflows are laid out badly, nothing will help.
That's true, but like I said - small performance drop noticeable only in benchmarks and I meant those long benchmarks or multiple consecutive runs. In general that is definitely not an issue with ThinkPads, other Lenovo consumer laptops with China R&D (ThinkPads are R&D'd in Japan) are hit or miss. ThinkPads are designed with that specific thing in mind, to just close them and put them on the desk and connect to the dock.
I mean the proof is exactly there on the exhaust design of the X1C G12, when many other Lenovo non-ThinkPad laptops have exhaust(s) completely shut when the lid is closed. Also basically all Lenovo docks have a power button included on them so user won't have to lift the lid to turn the laptop on and then close it again: https://imgur.com/ahiayTw (https://imgur.com/ahiayTw) 😁
Quote from: Neenyah on March 10, 2024, 11:23:22small performance drop noticeable only in benchmarks
not sure why drop should happen if everything is designed properly, either nothing will change or fans will go louder (then it's not too properly designed), that's it. performance drop is probably the edge case of bad design, when things go wrong and it's throttling.
Quote from: Neenyah on March 10, 2024, 11:23:22ThinkPads are designed with that specific thing in mind
if they are designed for that mode, yeah, just close them no worries
Are you planning to review other configurations once they become available? It'd be interesting to see the performance of 125H under load - it turbo boosts to a lower frequency than 155H, so maybe it won't throttle as much and be able to maintain a stable performance?
Please, make a review on Ips version of g12. Most carbon users prefer Ips in my opinion. is there Pwm or Dt? How is display in General? Loks like ips options should be considered only as "badget" one now.
I found fan loud on my gen12. I am only browsing youtube playing 1080p60 video and no other task running. The noise level goes to 35db in an quient environment with 28bd background noise. I compared it with my 2021 latitude 7400 in the same environment with same task, the noise on latitude 7400 was around 28 with is almost inaudible. I wonder if I have bad luck got this one with some issue or this generation is just like that. I contacted Lenovo, they told me to upgrade BIOS, which I did. Nothing changed after.