NotebookCHECK - Notebook Forum

QuoteWhile the Standard profile can be generally recommended for non-intensive use, you will not be getting maximum performance here — we observed a 24% performance drop in Cinebench R15 multi-core score in this mode.

It turns out Alder Lake drops in speed to 5900HX level 2 years ago with a sane noise level. And this is including the pulse mode, from which nothing remains either ...

Let's jump right into the screen...this laptop is from the "ProArt" series. What do we see in practice?
Hardware calibration gave dE>2, i.e. This matrix is NOT designed for professional use. Then why does anyone need this laptop at all? Moreover, I have already lost count, what a review, where AMOLED panels screw up in terms of hardware calibration within acceptable limits.

Go ahead. The author points out that this panel has a ppi of 283, but this is not true, just at the color resolution level, which is clearly visible from the subpixel structure, the resolution is much lower there.

Completes the gloomy picture of the "Pro" series - 60Hz PWM, which excludes professional long-term work behind such a screen without obvious harm to the eyes and nervous system and gloss, with rarely removable glare, in the workplace, as well as a much lower resource compared to IPS backlight, which will lead to a faster need for its replacement.

The keyboard is also not standard with a normal numpad, but these are trifles against the backdrop of a terrible screen...

@NikoB:

I don't understand. If you dislike laptops so much, why are you on this site to begin with? Shouldn't you be commenting on a site that reviews desktop parts instead?

"The ProArt StudioBook 16 offers good serviceability."

No. The fans are hidden under lanes and adhesive tapes. Cleaning them will be a nightmare.

The keyboard lacks dedicated Home, Ende, PageUp, PageDown.

PWM flicker is bad, 60Hz flicker even much more so.

The Performance fan mode is interesting for the large difference between Load average 34.5 dB and Witcher 3 at 49.1 dB. This proves that one cannot trust NBC's Load average noise value for GPU-concentrated load noise.

The Performance fan mode Load maximum 49.2 dB is a total shame in comparison to

Asus ProArt StudioBook Pro 16 - Xeon A5000 90 + 90W     43 dB
Asus ProArt StudioBook Pro X W730G5T Q5000 45 + 110W    39 dB

One can only hope the the 2023 ProArt StudioBooks revert to reason.

"Asus unveiled the ProArt StudioBook 16 3D OLED at CES 2023 with Intel 13th gen and 3D OLED panels upgrades, which we hope to review in the coming weeks. "

Nice!

Quote from: RobertJasiek on February 25, 2023, 15:53:48"The ProArt StudioBook 16 offers good serviceability."

No. The fans are hidden under lanes and adhesive tapes. Cleaning them will be a nightmare.

The keyboard lacks dedicated Home, Ende, PageUp, PageDown.

PWM flicker is bad, 60Hz flicker even much more so.

The Performance fan mode is interesting for the large difference between Load average 34.5 dB and Witcher 3 at 49.1 dB. This proves that one cannot trust NBC's Load average noise value for GPU-concentrated load noise.

The Performance fan mode Load maximum 49.2 dB is a total shame in comparison to

Asus ProArt StudioBook Pro 16 - Xeon A5000 90 + 90W     43 dB
Asus ProArt StudioBook Pro X W730G5T Q5000 45 + 110W    39 dB

One can only hope the the 2023 ProArt StudioBooks revert to reason.

"Asus unveiled the ProArt StudioBook 16 3D OLED at CES 2023 with Intel 13th gen and 3D OLED panels upgrades, which we hope to review in the coming weeks. "

Nice!

-Didn't find much of a taping near the fans our unit.. they seemd quite straightforward to remove.
-Most laptops tend to accommodate the Home et.al keys either on the arrow keys or on the numpad.
-Asus has been using specific Samsung OLEDs for quite a while now. All of them have 60 Hz DC Dimming. Hope this changes in newer models.
-The load average is just a 3DMark 06 Return to Proxycon demo. It's a very light load for modern GPUs, so they don't tend to strain much unlike say with The Witcher 3 at 1080p Ultra with HBAO+ and Hairworks enabled. We continue to use 3DMark 06 for sake of historical comparison.

Quote from: NikoB on February 25, 2023, 15:18:43Let's jump right into the screen...this laptop is from the "ProArt" series. What do we see in practice?
Hardware calibration gave dE>2, i.e. This matrix is NOT designed for professional use. Then why does anyone need this laptop at all? Moreover, I have already lost count, what a review, where AMOLED panels screw up in terms of hardware calibration within acceptable limits.

Go ahead. The author points out that this panel has a ppi of 283, but this is not true, just at the color resolution level, which is clearly visible from the subpixel structure, the resolution is much lower there.

Completes the gloomy picture of the "Pro" series - 60Hz PWM, which excludes professional long-term work behind such a screen without obvious harm to the eyes and nervous system and gloss, with rarely removable glare, in the workplace, as well as a much lower resource compared to IPS backlight, which will lead to a faster need for its replacement.

The keyboard is also not standard with a normal numpad, but these are trifles against the backdrop of a terrible screen...

The 283 PPI is calculated from the resolution and screen size. I don't see a reason why you think it cannot be so. IMO, the S-Stripe is much better than a Pentile. OLEDs generally come with glossy screens. The 60 Hz PWM is actually DC Dimming, but I understand why this should be higher. Hopefully, newer models will overcome this limitation.

I have an Asus X16 Flow and it is crashing/restarting randomly. There are many reports about this problem, and no solution. I hope Intel based Asuses are more dependable, otherwise it just cannot be use for content creation, because one have no idea when the content they are working on may be lost.

QuoteGo ahead. The author points out that this panel has a ppi of 283, but this is not true, just at the color resolution level, which is clearly visible from the subpixel structure, the resolution is much lower there.

Niko, this is a full-RGB panel.

I hear what you're saying about incomplete matrices. I agree they're a raw deal for consumers, and need to occupy less marketshare than they do (especially in phones, where RG/BG is so common). However this display is genuine 3840(RGB)x2400, and we need to give credit where it's due.

Each square in the display, per its dimensions, has one red, one green, and two blue dots allocated to it. While there are slight shifts in the runs of blues surrounding the dead spots, they don't affect the chromatic resolution in the way the subpixel omissions in the displays you're (rightfully) against do.

I do wish Notebookcheck would post properly-oriented matrix photos, with no rotation aside from corrective. As it is, it's not clear whether the blues run up and down or left and right, or whether it's the reds or greens on top*. It's worse for RG/BG phones, where a 45-degree rotation can improperly portray such a panel as true RGB.

*The blues do in fact go up and down, in this panel, and the reds are on top.

Quote from: Vaidyanathan on February 25, 2023, 16:04:59-Didn't find much of a taping near the fans our unit.. they seemd quite straightforward to remove.

Then I wonder whether it will attach again after cleaning the fans. Imagine doing so every 3 months. Eventually, the tape must be replaced or omitted, but the user cannot know whether doing so is safe. It is just bad to create any such obstacles.

Quote-Most laptops tend to accommodate the Home et.al keys either on the arrow keys or on the numpad.

This is not the right way to judge. We are not considering a majority of notebooks, of which many are lower end, but this notebook is supposed to belong to the higher end and good for (certain) work. Quite a few such notebooks do have 2 or 4 dedicated page navigation keys, regardless of dual key functions on arrow or numpad keys. From a work notebook (or "gaming" notebook used as work notebook), I expect preferably 4 dedicated page navigation keys because I frequently use them while also using the arrow and numpad digit keys. Without dedicated keys, such typing takes about thrice as much time, and it can happen that I work on mostly these keys for hours. The notebook is sold "for creators" but, due to the keyboard layout, I think "it is not built for creators". (Or maybe only for those creators hardly ever needing all three kinds of keys simultaneously.)

Quote-The load average is just a 3DMark 06 Return to Proxycon demo. It's a very light load for modern GPUs, so they don't tend to strain much unlike say with The Witcher 3 at 1080p Ultra with HBAO+ and Hairworks enabled. We continue to use 3DMark 06 for sake of historical comparison.

Interesting, thank you for the information!

Of course, NBC can continue to also use the 3DMark06 noise tests.

The problem is that users like me sorely miss something like a Furmark-only noise test in the written reviews! Neither 3DMark06 nor Witcher 3 represent GPU-heavy, non-3D-gaming workload with limited CPU usage.

I'd rather have a trackpoint than some weird dial, but that isn't the problem.

The problem is, you can't seem to buy these things anywhere reasonable, at least in Europe. Last time I tried to buy a ProArt StudioBook, it was only available on Amazon, in all the wrong configurations (GPU) instead of the one I wanted, and at a ridiculous price that didn't match the review quotes even remotely. So I ended up with a Lenovo again, even though the Asus theoretically came out long before and appealed to me, it was never really available for actually buying in the right configuration.

Quote from: NikoB on February 25, 2023, 15:18:43Completes the gloomy picture of the "Pro" series - 60Hz PWM, which excludes professional long-term work behind such a screen without obvious harm to the eyes and nervous system and gloss, with rarely removable glare, in the workplace,...

You have a somewhat aggressive tone in your comments and I like that because you are not talking BS but spitting facts instead. I can't say for others but I really like to read your comment(s). And about this laptop yes, PWM is indeed a joke especially in a pro device at this price point. But then again we have a PWM in pretty much every single Macbook Pro laptop so... :/

Quote from: Yngmar on February 25, 2023, 18:29:44The problem is, you can't seem to buy these things anywhere reasonable, at least in Europe. Last time I tried to buy a ProArt StudioBook, it was only available on Amazon,...

I don't know what's your desired config but you can find it at Computeruniverse.net starting at around 2700€ for an i7 12700H + 3060 (and 3840x2400 OLED screen) to 4000€+ i9 12900H + 3070 (and that same OLED screen). There are also two available combos with A3000 and A2000 GPUs.

Well i am a content creator, and my 3060 is at same level 29.9 sec vs 30 s in my Lenovo while rendering in Blender Classroom scene. 300 nits, 98% sRGB from 2021. 
Which shows that manufacturers still do not understand that in the bulk "content creator" tag there are people that need all GPU performance like gamers while others instead  that work with for example image editing(Photoshop etc) don't need such a performance from a GPU.

There are conveniences here in this laptop, but it is confusing the lack of a full size keyboard when there are several applications that use the home, etc keys for commands.

Still it is very good that Asus makes products for contente creators albeit the price is not very friendly.



Side note to NBC: it would be good if some sort of Unreal Engine benchmark could be setup.

Quote from: LL on February 26, 2023, 06:07:13manufacturers still do not understand that in the bulk "content creator" tag there are people that need all GPU performance like gamers while others instead  that work with for example image editing(Photoshop etc) don't need such a performance from a GPU.

Manufacturers know but they abuse tags like "content creator" or "gamer" for marketing purposes. They offer 3050TI class devices for photo editing, and "workstation" and fast "gaming" notebooks for compute-intensive jobs. They distinguish them especially by chassis design. Like very similar mainboards mostly distinguished by their visual design.

Some manufacturers structure their webpages by such tags. When I want to browse all their notebooks, first I need to some arbitrary tag. In the end, I often have to browse the notebooks or mainboards of all tags to just find out what is being offered. I cannot know in advance where I might find devices interesting for me.

Some price comparison webpages are even worse: they offer many filters but miss some of the most important filters, such as display ratio.

I am a happy possessor of a ProArt (H5600QE - it was difficult to find). I just wanted to add:

• there is a fingerprint reader under the power button
• the trackpad works also as a small pen tablet (I use an ASUS pen SA201H) - I found it useful

Quote from: AngelGar on February 26, 2023, 09:39:44I am a happy possessor of a ProArt (H5600QE - it was difficult to find). I just wanted to add:

• there is a fingerprint reader under the power button
• the trackpad works also as a small pen tablet (I use an ASUS pen SA201H) - I found it useful

...Fun, putting a digitizer in the trackpad, I don't think I've ever heard of such a configuration before...and I doubt its accuracy, I don't know what it's really good for trying to write or draw on a surface less than 1/4th the screen size, mapped to the screen.

How can a device with malfunctioning touchpad compete with Macbook for a workstation title?
It is literally useless unless you bring a mouse. And then it still burns your eyes with 60Hz flicker.

Ah this "premium" Windows experience...

Hey Notebook Check, were you able to measure the GPU wattage under load? I'm curious if this is a reduced wattage chip, a full power one, or somewhere in between. Thanks.

Quote from: CCCP on February 25, 2023, 15:26:57@NikoB:

I don't understand. If you dislike laptops so much, why are you on this site to begin with? Shouldn't you be commenting on a site that reviews desktop parts instead?

And I am grateful to NikoB, saving me a lot of time, I first look to see if he has a review. Then I review the article point by point.
I completely agree with his claims about laptops, I want to see the evolution of laptops, not degradation (driven by marketing).
Today, a laptop for $1,500 must have 4k IPS 144 Hz, 32 GB of RAM (minimum), SSD nvme 1 TB (with several RAM chips).
The cooling system should be quiet, without creaks and sand.
All USB ports are 40gbe, for power there is a duplicate round corner connector (this is not a problem for me, but in the second one, which works on the bed, the USB has already broken twice).
No inflation or crisis is an excuse for high prices for garbage.
Instead (or paired) of HDMI should be DP. The keyboard should be a full-fledged special "arrow" (on a thinkbook g3 in 2 years, I never got used to the truncated ones).
Unfortunately, now there is not even a good laptop (the last ones were legions a couple of years ago). Aggressive criticism of modern laptops objectively taking into account the aggressive marketing of content for the price of gold.

Це тільки в СССР (совку) всі мовчать і не сміють піднімати голову.

Quote from: Palomino_core on February 28, 2023, 01:35:51Hey Notebook Check, were you able to measure the GPU wattage under load? I'm curious if this is a reduced wattage chip, a full power one, or somewhere in between. Thanks.

Yeah it maxes out at 115 W. You can see that in the stress test section.

Quote from: Ednumero on February 25, 2023, 16:58:40I do wish Notebookcheck would post properly-oriented matrix photos, with no rotation aside from corrective. As it is, it's not clear whether the blues run up and down or left and right, or whether it's the reds or greens on top*. It's worse for RG/BG phones, where a 45-degree rotation can improperly portray such a panel as true RGB.

*The blues do in fact go up and down, in this panel, and the reds are on top.

Thanks for the feedback, Ednumero. Do you have any orientation suggestion to avoid ambiguity?

Quote from: Vaidyanathan on February 28, 2023, 21:04:16Do you have any orientation suggestion to avoid ambiguity?

I'll give the most thorough answer I can.

Most important to me would be to keep out any orientations that aren't 0/90/180/270 degrees (or very close). With this panel, it doesn't matter as much, because it's reasonably clear that the blues must run either up/down or left/right. But it matters a lot in phones with diagonal RG/BG matrices.

Examples:
- This photo is good, because it clearly shows the diagonality of the matrix: iPhone 14 Plus Review (https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-iPhone-14-Plus-smartphone-review-Better-than-the-iPhone-14-with-a-bigger-display.664500.0.html#c9112917)
- This is ambiguous, because it's unclear whether the true alignment is diagonal (=> RG/BG, PenTile) or horizontal/vertical (=> RGGB, full-RGB). Xiaomi 12T Pro 5G Review (https://www.notebookcheck.net/Xiaomi-12T-Pro-5G-review-Smartphone-with-200-MP-and-Snapdragon-8-Gen1-at-an-attractive-price.670456.0.html#c9202117)
- This one makes the phone's display look like true RGB. If the matrix photo is actually tilted 45 degrees versus reality (reality being that it's also PenTile), then it doesn't highlight the issue, and risks presenting the display as something it's not (true RGB). Asus ROG Phone 6D (https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-ROG-Phone-6D-and-6D-Ultimate-Smartphone-review-Gaming-phones-with-great-accessories.675921.0.html#c9283221)

Second most important, in my eyes, would be to make sure horizontal is horizontal and vertical is vertical.

It seems the first few reviews of this panel did show the correct orientation with respect to X vs Y. However because so many reviews on this site have not shown correct rotations, I wasn't confident until I saw a unit in person. While it's a small detail, I was interested in whether any subtle gaps in solid blue 1px lines would be more prevalent horizontally or vertically. (The blues do run vertically, slight gaps can be seen in 1px blue lines on a black background, but they're a non-issue in practice.)

Thirdly, least important of all but perhaps the easiest to correct, would be 0 vs 180 degree rotations. I'm aware that microscopes like to rotate things 180 degrees, evident by moving the observation target and seeing that the captured image scrolls in the opposite direction. If that's easy to anticipate and correct, then I will leave that to the Notebookcheck team to decide if it's worth watching out for.

Extra:
- This matrix photo is super confusing: ASUS ROG Phone Review (https://www.notebookcheck.net/ASUS-ROG-Phone-Smartphone-Review.365636.0.html#c5192956) Assuming it's the same matrix as the following: Nokia X30 Review (https://www.notebookcheck.net/Nokia-X30-smartphone-review-Nokia-s-fastest-eco-smartphone.666501.0.html#c9144208) then it looks closer to true-RGB at first glance. However checking it with a square selection tool, it appears to have three steps along one axis and only two along another.
- This review doesn't show a matrix! Huawei Mate 50 Pro Review (https://www.notebookcheck.net/Huawei-Mate-50-Pro-smartphone-review-The-camera-star-has-problems.669547.0.html#c9189772)

In general, better analysis on this type of stuff will help consumers become more aware of the issues. Regardless of how a review orients the matrix photo, I don't often see a lot of language to communicate the problems it may have. Advertised display stats are forwarded to the reader without much caution, other than a matrix photo whose rotation may or may not correctly represent the panel. A helpful starter, for example, would be to list "2400(RG/BG) x 1080" rather than "2400x1080" in the applicable locations.

This, in turn, might help steer manufacturers towards producing more options to fill the gaps, which might even make their way to the standard. We saw this with laptop RG/BW panels going away, and the once-ubiquitous low-quality TN laptop panels becoming much less common. I'm hopeful that mobile device PenTile (alongside harsh PWM in all device categories, which this site already does often report on well) can be next.

Finally, if I may tack on an unrelated issue, I did observe that this panel renders almost-black colors far too bright. Black is perfectly black, but very dim colors are represented wildly inconsistently across panel area and brightness settings. Perhaps it's worth replacing the full-black test image in the OLED "backlight"-bleeding tests with one that's almost black instead. I found that a full-screen image of RGB(1, 1, 1) is sufficient to demonstrate the issue, though I suspect up to RGB(8, 8, 8) could help weed out any software "fixes" in place.

Quote from: Ednumero on March 01, 2023, 01:36:44...

I do not need to rotate the photos to immediately understand that the color resolution does not correspond to the black and white. In this case, according to the laptop under discussion, it does not correspond to 100%. Those, manufacturer and author (although he explained his position) deceives the reader with the real color resolution of the laptop screen, which was emphasized by me.

Already only for this, in most cases, on smartphones (especially) and on AMOLED laptops, IPS is obviously in color permission. Not to mention many other shortcomings. AMOLED should cost 1.5 times cheaper than IPS with the same colorspace, and not vice versa.

And the fact that ASUS in cheap laptops began to install AMOLED only proves it - IPS is more expensive and a better screen for eyes.

Quote from: NikoB on March 01, 2023, 12:52:22the color resolution does not correspond to the black and white. In this case, according to the laptop under discussion, it does not correspond to 100%.

But it does: one red, one green, and two blue dots per. Each pixel in the grid can be any RGB value it wants.

AMOLED RG/BG panels in phones have one green per, and alternating red/blue. Those are the displays where this is an issue. And photo rotation really does matter there, because a "Diamond" PenTile panel tilted and cropped at 45 degrees looks like it has square RGGB pixels instead of diagonal RG/BG.

It's fair to debate whether the arrangement in this ASUS is good or bad in comparison to the three vertical stripes you tend to see in IPS panels. Especially for text rendering, which has historically been optimized for the latter (=> moreso a software issue, and maybe the situation has improved). But you're not losing subpixels and color resolution like you are on the phone displays.

In addition to dark color rendering, PWM is probably the most significant criticism of this panel for those affected significantly by it (though I must say the aggressive flickering of the keyboard backlight is far worse than anything the display does).

Hi,
will someone of the team quick review the i9-13 / RTX4070 variant of this laptop ?