NotebookCHECK - Notebook Forum

Oh really, you prove your claim by overclocking RDNA 1 ?

This website is very, very biased :( ...lost trust in them a long while ago

While I think both will be great, I think it's just logical to conclude the Series X will have a fair deal more graphics performance than the PS5. The Series X will perform at a locked 12.155TF and the PS5 can boost up to 10.28TF, even if it sustains that clock that's still a fairly significant performance delta, and in the scenario that a non-boosting PS5 GPU drops down to around 2.0GHz per CU, which is likely, it actually works out to around 9.2TF. I don't think teraflops are the be all end all by any means, but these GPUs are both RDNA 2.0 and share far more in common than sets them apart so their TF numbers do hold a fair deal of relevance comparatively.

This author doesnt realize that yes it's less powerful compared to xsx but this is where the ssd comes in where the ssd is that quick it becomes like a pool of Ram which can offset alot of things like Field of view. pop ins etc without allocating alot of it to the GDDR ram it's also that fast that it can probably able to download and stream 8k textures to a 4k display without hitting the performance that hard.

Shush, the Sony fan bois are getting restless

1) It's harder to keep 52CUs fed than 36CUs.
Depending on the level of parallelism.

2) There has to be some throttling mechanism for XSX GPU.
Otherwise you could "burn" it by using something like Furmark and it would overheat and the console would stall.

3) frequency scales very well on GPUs as Sony's main architect explained. TMUs and ROP and cache are oc as well. Your comparison for RDNA1 scaling is not valid for PS5 and RDNA2.

That being said, XSX has an advantage over PS5 in terms of GPU but i expect it's in the realm of 10-15% not 30% We'll see anyway.

Quote from: Whiteknight on March 20, 2020, 19:43:53
This author doesnt realize that yes it's less powerful compared to xsx but this is where the ssd comes in where the ssd is that quick it becomes like a pool of Ram which can offset alot of things like Field of view. pop ins etc without allocating alot of it to the GDDR ram it's also that fast that it can probably able to download and stream 8k textures to a 4k display without hitting the performance that hard.

Lol, it might be a fast SSD but it's still roughly 2 orders of magnitude slower than the GDDR6 ram that those textures still have to go through anyway. Plus the amount of memory really isn't its biggest weakness. 

Ever since the days of Xbox and PS2.
Sony's console wasn't known to be as powerful as MS's.
It was never about power but what games each system would offer.
And since this is a new era, both companies will have a fresh start on how they would cater to their playerbase.
I just hope MS would put a fight this time. Maybe that way they would return their main office back to Japan.
Ever since they moved it to California, they've been doing some weird and questionable decisions(like censorship and those wtf presentation).

Sony never said it would use the SSD as a Ram pool. Now Microsoft on the other hand did. The PS5 is going to be good, but Microsoft's Xbox series X will have better looking games. All Sony talked about was load times.

Sony fanbois seem upset when confronted with facts. Fact that point to the ps5 being inferior.

And the don't fans cry...... :'(

Real life performance is everything and and RDNA 2 is not even out yet you dont even know what your talking about and the ps4 pro and xbox one x its not that much different in graphics anyway and you dont seem to follow up whats happening the new consoles are not about graphics anyways they say that it will only look more life like but the graphics will be pretty much the same as the ps4 pro or xbox one x

What this author seems to be forgetting is MS vs Sony's stance on their respective unveils. MS revealed the Xbox SERIES X. The name itself implies that we are looking at a stable of devices. The 12 TFLOPs of performance is their upper limit, at least for the next 3 years till they come out with an overclocked chip of their own Pro model (if at all).
Whereas the PS5 is clearly ONE console, it's the base model. Meaning every ps5 owner would at least have an ssd that is that fast, a GPU CAPPED at 2.23 GHz - Cerny clearly said that their thermal management approach allows them to go higher (an approach employed way back in the day with the psp where the handheld was unthrottled to its max cpu/gpu frequencies later down its lifecycle) - and a Zen 2 8C/16T CPU again CAPPED at 3.5 GHz.
We've known for a while from supply chain rumours that Sony was doubling down on its cooling solution for the ps5. Now with such skyhigh clock speeds it makes more sense.
Also Sony did not claim that more TFLOPs doesn't make a more powerful GPU, they rightly said that a higher clocked GPU with the same TFLOPs would give better real world performance.
And you seem to very boldly/callously be overlooking the extent of custom silicon inside the ps5 designed to remove bottlenecks in the entire gaming hardware stack. A RDNA 1 gpu OC'd could never begin to offer up the same gains as a console GPU at higher default CAPPED clocks simply because the first is a single part whilst the other is highly integrated on a single design ethos.

Most of the commenters are wrong. I agree with NotebookCheck, their assessment is correct.

Sony has already has purchased and locked in the specs. They're on damage control. The secondary improvements from frequency are real, but they have a limit of diminishing returns. Especially when factoring that overclocking, something you don't want in a small form-factor, or for consistency, or long-term, or redistricted power supply.

In general, you want a good balance between the frequency/single-core performance, and of wide/more-cores. This applies for both CPU and GPU. However, for CPUs this balance is closer favouring frequency/single-core performance. Whereas for GPU you want wider/more-cores.

Microsoft's unit is better in the Software/SDK, in Backwards Compatibly, in Cooling, in the SSD, in the CPU, and in the GPU. All up it will use slightly less power, run cooler, run quieter, and give an extra +30% performance... AT THE SAME PRICE.

Yet, the PS5 is going to win next-gen because they will end up having the better exclusive games.

y'all in the comments mad but youre still giving the site ad revenue lmao

good article thanks

Honestly. I don't know what Sony was thinking. 52 cu to 36 Cu. Are u kidding me?  People want the best for the new expensive TVs and gaming situations. They want longevity. Every single third party game is going to look better on the Xbox. Sony dropped the ball man.  To top it off Microsoft can't afford to lose in this game division but for Sony this is mainTo top it off Microsoft can't afford to lose and it's game division but for Sony this is mainly all they got. 

Shame too cuz PlayStation has much better games. But money doesn't grow on trees I'm getting the council that's the most powerful no way around it. Microsoft this year for me. 

Honestly. I don't know what Sony was thinking. 52 cu to 36 Cu. Are u kidding me?  People want the best for the new expensive TVs and gaming situations. They want longevity. Every single third party game is going to look better on the Xbox. Sony dropped the ball man.  To top it off Microsoft can afford to lose in its game division but For Sony this is their bread and butter

Shame too cuz PlayStation has much better games. But money doesn't grow on trees I'm getting the council that's the most powerful no way around it. Microsoft this year for me.

Fixed typos. Sorry

Admittedly things have probably improved since the PS2 days, but back then it was also a matter of dev environment. Sure you may have lots of power, but without the ability to use it is pointless.

Earlier Xbox one games were better because it was pretty stock hardware not much different from the average PC, the PS2 was a curious beast with multiple separate cores that required developers time to make the most of. They ended up pushing out more spectacular games (in graphics/sound) in the end, but there was lag as it took time to harness the power.

I'm gathering both are a lot more close in design this time round and that development environments more mature. So lag in harnessing the power may be less an issue, but I wouldn't call it yet.

In the end as much as graphics are nice, it is gameplay that wins it and that is down to who they have signed.

Theres no fan boys here whats the use of having a powerful conosle when there will probably be s*** games on it and people saying the xbox series x is heaps more powerful wow 1.82 TLFOPS  more WOW thats really more powerful and 100mhz to 300mhz with hyper threading on
On the CPU thats again WOW thats really more powerful if it was 1ghz more powerful for CPU and 15 to 16 TFLOPS for gpu then you can be saying the xbox series x is way more powerful you guys are just full of it i have owned all this gen consoles and have had a pretty powerful pc and as far as i can tell the author doesnt know what hes talking about sure the xbox series x is more powerful but by how much 10 15% thats nothing

Who cares, the best exclusives will be on the ps5 for sure

The numbers don't lie and I don't get why the fanboys are crying here. Even the release was hideous, I listened for 1 hour of blah blah SSD blah blah send us a picture of your ear. I've had NES, SNES, PS1, original Xbox, Xbox 360, then PS4 and now it seems I will either buy Xbox Series X or wait for a few years for PS5 Pro for the same price (or less), after the fanboys have used their gil for the original PS5. Usually Sony has sold their consoles a bit cheap (quite small profit from the console sales) and have made the money with selling games. I guess on the PS5 they tried to have more profit from the consoles by under-speccing it. They will sell it for a bit less than the Xbox, but have better profit.

Also the 825 GB SSD capacity is way small for 2020, let alone if you think 5 years into the future. Yeah, it's a good thing to have the possibility of installing additional storage for it, but that will cost most likely half of the console in the first few years.

So if you're dumb, buy PS5 straight away, so we, who are willing to wait for better deals can spend buttloads less money.

By the way, there's nothing wrong in the article.

One interesting fact is if the series x ran the same clock speed it would have 14.6 teraflops which equates to 40 -45 % more power under the hood.

This article I think is just to spark up a unnecessary debat. This guy is not a Mastermind like Cerny . If he was he wouldn't be writing an article like this. Second thing to point out Multiple  game developers are staying it's a shame people are consetraiting so much on the T-Flops. I quote devs are saying the PS5 surpasses the Xbox series X in multiple ways . They are saying it's a shame bc people are getting fed misinformation that the Xbox series x is way more powerful which is the exact opposite of what the devs are saying which in turn there will be way more people like this clown stating how much more powerful the Xbox series x is . All I have to say is Google it. You will find plenty of articles stating game devs who are working on both new consoles clearly state ps5 is significantly more powerful in mores ways than one than the series x . Facts 💯

Well I don't know much about RDNA 1 or 2 but whether Xbox is more powerful than ps doesn't matter in Africa esp Kenya over 90% of gamers and game arcades have PS4/pro believe me PS5 will be all people care about.sony don't need to advertise coz here it's all about how many games you can play with friends..you can go for miles looking for someone to exchange an Xbox game and also exclusive ps4 games don't play on PC unlike Xbox games which makes having a console at home special..kids call all consoles PS  ;D there are hundreds of used ps4 for sale as cheap as $200 used pro $300 new $350 and games are dirt cheap too Xbox1 X new $450 used $350 instead of Xbox guys get laptops and get to play some of those games but at home you will find a PS4... so it's a no-brainer most people don't know what a Tflop is but they know Spiderman  ;D

So this was a focus on pure teraflops, but ignoring other enhancement to the overall ps5 chipset. Regardless, the multiplats will be on par and ps5 will still own the exclusives department, just as the  last few generations against xbox. Xbox did a poor job last gen with overall exclusives, while sony keeps releasing exclusives till the end. Look at the cpu and gpu power available on pc, and look how sony has performed with it's limited capabailities of the ps4. If you think xbox series x will have better looking exclusives you are kidding yourselves.  Sony are more ambitious with pushing hardware coupled with their amazing game engines.

If you watch Cerny's talk again, he stated that the power draw was fixed in PS5, this was to prevent having to guess thermals, and prevent throttling.
Fixed power draw equates to fixed thermal levels, which means the boost clock can stay at peak in most situations.
It has less CU's, which may actually help eradicate overhead in CU utilisation, but we have higher clocks  which boost any non-alu operations too.
Add to that the IO CoProcessors, tempest SPU, and highly available SSD as RAM, we have a very interesting and well optimised machine.

Easy choice, XSX for the guys that saying PS5 is close, go build a PC with with 30% less GPU power, 10% less CPU power and double as fast SSD and tell me how your fps and detail levels can be to get same fps :D

@shavedbroom I appreciate what Microsoft have built, but the XSX has no real USP.

Both consoles specs will be surpassed by the PC in less than a year.   XSX games will arrive on both PC and Xbox 1X, so theres no need to buy one. People that want 30% more GPU and more 10% CPU will buy their game for  their faster PC.   People that want exclusive titles will keep buying Playstations.   Why do you think Sony keep winning each generation.

Ok to people claiming a faster ssd will allow sony to push more detail arent thinking about it logically. The hard drives in both systems will be used as virtual ram but that doesn't mean direct to the gpu access! Even if it did have direct access it would only cause additive memory bandwidth. Which means 453gbs a second total bandwidth which is not how it works anyway but its still puts it at a large bandwidth loss to the 560gbs a second on the XSX. Even being able to stream the texture data faster wouldnt mean it just goes straight to framebuffer. Textures are handled by texture map units which are attached to each compute unit. The filter and perspective correct the textures and the shader cores alter them for light and color changes. The series X has more memory bandwidth and 16 more texture map units and compute units so even if sony could pull of bandwidth defying magic it doesnt mean it has the resources to display the textures! Also if the clocks speeds on the ps5 werent boost clocks with variable power management they wouldnt have said it in the sony presentation. Boost clocks are all well and good but if you look at the interview cerny did with digital foundry you would see that cerny says the clock speeds vary between every system! This has to be a problem with fine optimization for devs. The devkits only have locked profiles for the clock speeds where devs can choose what gets the higher clock rate so with only dev kits to work with predictable performance on retail builds may be difficult unless the devs find the average amount clocks can sway on retail consoles and pad that into their game. Which could leave a small amount of performance on the table. To me the series x is built to grow in power for the future where the ps5 will take alot more work to get more performance. Im not a fanboy ive owned every sony amd microsoft console ever made.

Can you know overclock a RDNA 2 card to have a more reliable and accurate example?

I suspect Sony's plan is quite simple, keep cost down and optimise day 1 performance. By sticking with a fixed power supply and thermal dissipation limit, the power and cooling solution can be much cheaper. Less CUs means higher yield, smaller die, cheaper chip. I imagine we will see a surprisingly low market launch price.

With regards performance, suggestions from developers are that it is much easier to gain 100% performance from the PS5 than it is the Xbox Series X. The SSD performance is faster to the point of workable texture streaming, DMA'd into the graphics RAM with a special cache scrubber to reduce the impact. A single RAM speed removes the concerns and need to optimise its use. Good tooling is also rumoured to be a factor. I also don't completely agree with NotebookCheck's take on clock vs performance scalability, it's a new architecture on a chip that has been designed with a high clock in-mind, OK maybe they can't drastically change the paradigm but they're going to have looked at addressing at least some of the bottlenecks.

Most importantly, I think the argument Cerny was trying to make, which I agree with, is release a console on day 1 that is affordable, sleek and quiet, that game developers are going to be able to fully utilise early on. By the time game developers have managed to fully optimise their offerings on the competition and make use of those extra 2TF, as is now the industry trend, it's going to be time for the PS5 Pro, for those who care about performance.

If the reports about AMD giving Sony's GPU some features from RDNA 3 are correct it could make things interesting. I was told by a friend in the gaming industry that Sony has a trick up their sleeve that they are hiding until Microsoft well into production. So naturally when the specs were revealed I thought he was full of s***..... maybe he's not lol. (He does artistic design at a AAA studio not affiliated with Sony or Microsoft. He says games in this generation will be time limited, not hardware limited, and that who ever invests in game engine tech will stand out. The more time a developer can spend creating their vision vs battling bugs and game engine limitations, the better. He also talked about the sweet spot for churning out games, and how development problems are seriously holding some franchises back. He also talked about the fight with the corporate side to exclude or at least limit microtransactions and excessive paid content.)

Quote from: Xtra on March 24, 2020, 18:24:50
Well I don't know much about RDNA 1 or 2 but whether Xbox is more powerful than ps doesn't matter in Africa esp Kenya over 90% of gamers and game arcades have PS4/pro believe me PS5 will be all people care about ... so it's a no-brainer most people don't know what a Tflop is but they know Spiderman  ;D

Yeah, people somehow have a hard time understanding that. The audience is different, and the use case is different. And when talking about "A gaming PC will be faster"--good luck building a gaming PC with comparable performance at the price the PS5 and XSX will ship at. For a _whole lot_ of families and households the consoles just make more sense.

Quote from: Alistair Lowe on April 11, 2020, 02:37:55
I suspect Sony's plan is quite simple, keep cost down and optimise day 1 performance. By sticking with a fixed power supply and thermal dissipation limit, the power and cooling solution can be much cheaper. Less CUs means higher yield, smaller die, cheaper chip. I imagine we will see a surprisingly low market launch price.

With regards performance, suggestions from developers are that it is much easier to gain 100% performance from the PS5 than it is the Xbox Series X. The SSD performance is faster to the point of workable texture streaming, DMA'd into the graphics RAM with a special cache scrubber to reduce the impact. A single RAM speed removes the concerns and need to optimise its use. Good tooling is also rumoured to be a factor. I also don't completely agree with NotebookCheck's take on clock vs performance scalability, it's a new architecture on a chip that has been designed with a high clock in-mind, OK maybe they can't drastically change the paradigm but they're going to have looked at addressing at least some of the bottlenecks.

Most importantly, I think the argument Cerny was trying to make, which I agree with, is release a console on day 1 that is affordable, sleek and quiet, that game developers are going to be able to fully utilise early on. By the time game developers have managed to fully optimise their offerings on the competition and make use of those extra 2TF, as is now the industry trend, it's going to be time for the PS5 Pro, for those who care about performance.

You're wrong the extra power will be used immediately just like base Xbox One and PS4 even at launch Battlefield 4 only ran at 720p and then 900p on PS4 and this was a continual trend throughout the generation PS4 had higher resolutions then Xbox One X beat PS4 Pro in the same fashion.

We will always see the same difference between the ps5 and the xbox x series that we saw with the ps4pro and xbox onex. The ps5 will always have more trouble doing the 4k with the new graphics settings much groundier

We have die sizes of what RDNA2 GPU and CU count. PS5 is 36cu an same die size. As lowest sku RDNA2.And matches perfectly with the RDNA1 revision with RDNA2 CU an IPC. Same size an CUs exactly same.Logic says its one of these 2. XSX on the other hand matches perfectly with CU count and Die as 340² size. Which is just a higher Tier GPU than what PS5 is. Common sense.

"No, the PS5 won't offer anywhere near the graphics performance of Xbox Series X:"

Now fucks PS5 the Xbox. What now? Maybe du should just talking with knowledge