The latest Huawei-related security issue is huge and it's enough to describe it in a few words for everyone to figure out: for over a decade, the Chinese behemoth has been using backdoors intended for law enforcement to access mobile networks — and the sensitive/private information they carry — all over the world.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Huawei-caught-red-handed-The-company-has-backdoor-access-to-mobile-networks-worldwide.453724.0.html
It is really hard to believe or take something like this seriously when it is written by The Wall Street journal, against Chinese companies. If we learned anything from near-past, it is that more often than not they lie or exaggerate rumours whenever it will make them profit.
Quote from: ymcst on February 12, 2020, 10:43:18
It is really hard to believe or take something like this seriously when it is written by The Wall Street journal, against Chinese companies. If we learned anything from near-past, it is that more often than not they lie or exaggerate rumours whenever it will make them profit.
so "fake news" is what you´re saying?
DONT WORRY, YOU´ll BE FINE! :)
Huawei only wants whats best for the customer :)
/sarcasm
The Times this morning has a front page article about a CIA operation fronted by a swiss equipment manufacturer that spied on 120 countries for years. Can we please have a notebookchat erticle on this
"While it is not surprising to find out that backdoor access to mobile networks all over the world is possible and it all has been implemented for use by law enforcement agencies, it all changes when a tech company is involved."
So... US government wants a backdoor but gets whiny about it when there's a backdoor? If you make a hole in enryption there is a hole in the encryption. Every rat will crawl in. American rats, chinese rats, russian rats. Zee Germans will also get there.
Quote from: Stephen Lindsey on February 12, 2020, 10:55:58
The Times this morning has a front page article about a CIA operation fronted by a swiss equipment manufacturer that spied on 120 countries for years. Can we please have a notebookchat erticle on this
Excellent suggestion, we'll have it!
Quote from: Alberto Balsam on February 12, 2020, 11:21:46
"While it is not surprising to find out that backdoor access to mobile networks all over the world is possible and it all has been implemented for use by law enforcement agencies, it all changes when a tech company is involved."
So... US government wants a backdoor but gets whiny about it when there's a backdoor? If you make a hole in enryption there is a hole in the encryption. Every rat will crawl in. American rats, chinese rats, russian rats. Zee Germans will also get there.
All governments want backdoors. They get whiny when someone else is using them. Now, I guess that there should be some agreements between the hardware/software makers and governments that makes it clear that the companies involved in this are not supposed to use the backdoors themselves... I don't say that this is fair to anyone, but this is how things go. See why Telegram is banned in a few countries such as Russia and Iran currently...
Will end to end encryption solve any spying problems?
Good question, but probably not...
So, at the beginning, you claim they have been caught red handed, they have been spying, but then the article says they have the ability? What's this? There is a big difference between having the ability and being caught doing it. Do you really have to treat us like we're idiots with those headlines?
The manufacturer who put a backdoor in their product always has the ability to use it. Because they put it there. And often, that's exactly how it works. The manufacturer keeps control over the backdoor and the government/ law enforcement has to ask them for the data, hopefully with appropriate paperwork (like court order). Although there have been cases where the company was tricked into doing so, having no clue (at least they claimed so). And it's certainly possible for spooks to do so. Glaring problem being that, as far as I know, for example under US law, foreigners have few rights and protections compared to citizens. Your country might be awesome when it comes to privacy, but what happens when your data is handled by a US company? It would be an interesting read how exactly it works with US companies and non-US customers. It's a pretty safe bet that pretty much all US gear is backdoored as well (including things like access control systems used at critical facilities, not just computers or networking gear). It's just a question whether we trust US more than China. And how much we trust them. Maybe it's not as bad as I think but when you're relying on gear you can't really verify, you should consider the possibility and what it means, what impact it could have.
Quote from: 54125485 on February 12, 2020, 11:47:09
Will end to end encryption solve any spying problems?
Yes. Unless it has a weakness in implementation or has been backdoored as well. And don't forget, quantum computers are coming. We could have a quantum computer capable of cracking currently used encryption within a decade. If you're hiding something that's still going to be worth hiding in that timeframe, you should be switching to encryption resistant to quantum computers as we speak. Because data gets stored for later decryption. Cryptosystems have finite lifespan.
Realistically, unless you're a political activist or at least a politician, you don't really have to worry. The primary reason for a government to spy civilians (especially their own) is to ensure the regime stays in power. Corporations, on the other hand, want to make money. They're constantly looking into ways to monetize your private data.
Quote from: Alberto Balsam on February 12, 2020, 11:21:46
If you make a hole in enryption there is a hole in the encryption. Every rat will crawl in. American rats, chinese rats, russian rats. Zee Germans will also get there.
If you're thinking of the same incident, I believe the beauty of that hole was that only the creator knew whether it really existed. The committee determined it was suspicious when it was submitted, that there is a way to craft the values such that you have a backdoor, but I believe it would be mathematically hard to find the backdoor. Only the author had it.
Why is the writer of this article assuming that it is now confirmed Huawei has been spying, when this is just another political news coming from US-based media representing the voice of the US government? As a tech journalist, you could've used wordings like 'reportedly' or 'The Wall Street Journal says' especially for a highly sensitive topic like this.
Quote from: _MT_ on February 12, 2020, 12:39:16
So, at the beginning, you claim they have been caught red handed, they have been spying, but then the article says they have the ability? What's this? There is a big difference between having the ability and being caught doing it. Do you really have to treat us like we're idiots with those headlines?
You almost caught ME red-handed! However, if you paid attention a bit later in the article, the US _claims_ to have been caught the Chinese using the backdoor since 2009. If they have solid proof or not, that's another discussion.
Thank you very much for the time spent writing your comment. Excellent stuff.
Quote from: Anonymous on February 12, 2020, 12:46:13
Why is the writer of this article assuming that it is now confirmed Huawei has been spying, when this is just another political news coming from US-based media representing the voice of the US government? As a tech journalist, you could've used wordings like 'reportedly' or 'The Wall Street Journal says' especially for a highly sensitive topic like this.
It's not just the US government, unfortunately. Huawei isn't that clean, either.
https://www.newser.com/story/269814/poland-we-caught-huawei-manager-spying-for-china.html
https://bgr.com/2019/08/14/huawei-spying-political-opposition-in-africa/
Why is there a backdoor in the first place? I doubt that the american government has been more careful with the data than Huawei. This always feels like the pot calling the kettle black: Huawei gets banned for "allegedly" going through people's data, while the US government and US companies have been proven to use and sell personal data, yet they don't get punished? Also, I don't know how trustworthy data from a China-hating government is on this.
A funny possibility is that the US government is whining because Huawei won't share access, making it more difficult for them to snoop around. :-)
Quote from: Codrut Nistor on February 12, 2020, 12:50:08
You almost caught ME red-handed! However, if you paid attention a bit later in the article, the US _claims_ to have been caught the Chinese using the backdoor since 2009. If they have solid proof or not, that's another discussion.
It's unclear whether that means they noticed a backdoor or caught Huawei using it. I still think the headline and lead paragraph are inflated and sensationalist. I know it's the tone of this day and age, but I don't like it. I know facts might seem sometimes boring, but I like to see what I'm getting. If US government claims Huawei spied, then say US government claims Huawei spied. And not Huawei spied.
Thank you.
Quote from: _MT_ on February 12, 2020, 12:39:16
If you're thinking of the same incident, I believe the beauty of that hole was that only the creator knew whether it really existed. The committee determined it was suspicious when it was submitted, that there is a way to craft the values such that you have a backdoor, but I believe it would be mathematically hard to find the backdoor. Only the author had it.
I would like to add that this is actually an important condition. The NSA has no interest in making US systems vulnerable to foreign attack. They're interested in holes where they're confident they're the only ones who can use them. Ideally, there is also a plausible deniability component, meaning it can't be proven it was intentional and can be passed off as a bug/ mistake if discovered.
Quote from: Codrut Nistor on February 12, 2020, 12:56:00
Quote from: Anonymous on February 12, 2020, 12:46:13
Why is the writer of this article assuming that it is now confirmed Huawei has been spying, when this is just another political news coming from US-based media representing the voice of the US government? As a tech journalist, you could've used wordings like 'reportedly' or 'The Wall Street Journal says' especially for a highly sensitive topic like this.
It's not just the US government, unfortunately. Huawei isn't that clean, either.
Those articles are nothing to do with the one you wrote therefore do not back up a claim that you made
in this article, unfortunately. You're diverting the subject now. I'm not saying they are entirely clean, but that still doesn't give you entitlement to name and write this article in such a conclusive manner IMO.
Quote from: Stephen Lindsey on February 12, 2020, 10:55:58
The Times this morning has a front page article about a CIA operation fronted by a swiss equipment manufacturer that spied on 120 countries for years. Can we please have a notebookchat erticle on this
Somehow your comment has been totally ignored. I'm guessing that it's too uncomfortable to answer to that without showing double standards.
Quote from: Codrut Nistor on February 12, 2020, 12:50:08
Quote from: _MT_ on February 12, 2020, 12:39:16
So, at the beginning, you claim they have been caught red handed, they have been spying, but then the article says they have the ability? What's this? There is a big difference between having the ability and being caught doing it. Do you really have to treat us like we're idiots with those headlines?
You almost caught ME red-handed! However, if you paid attention a bit later in the article, the US _claims_ to have been caught the Chinese using the backdoor since 2009. If they have solid proof or not, that's another discussion.
That's not what *your* article says, though. It says the US claims to have evidence that the back door exists and *could* be used, not that they claim to have proof of it having been used. The title and opening paragraph directly imply that it *has been / is being used*, which is misleading in the context of the information you provide here.
Personally, while I have little doubt that Huawei would use such backdoors as and when suits them, I still find it very rich that the US government are crying wolf over this when we know full well that they engage in the exact same behaviour. The FBI even attempted a smear campaign against Apple for refusing to create security holes in their devices.
Quote from: drspychology on February 12, 2020, 13:07:16
Why is there a backdoor in the first place? I doubt that the american government has been more careful with the data than Huawei. This always feels like the pot calling the kettle black: Huawei gets banned for "allegedly" going through people's data, while the US government and US companies have been proven to use and sell personal data, yet they don't get punished? Also, I don't know how trustworthy data from a China-hating government is on this.
No government is entirely trustworthy, so we can only assume that they are telling the truth... or not.
Quote from: Spunjji on February 12, 2020, 16:01:32
Quote from: Codrut Nistor on February 12, 2020, 12:50:08
Quote from: _MT_ on February 12, 2020, 12:39:16
So, at the beginning, you claim they have been caught red handed, they have been spying, but then the article says they have the ability? What's this? There is a big difference between having the ability and being caught doing it. Do you really have to treat us like we're idiots with those headlines?
You almost caught ME red-handed! However, if you paid attention a bit later in the article, the US _claims_ to have been caught the Chinese using the backdoor since 2009. If they have solid proof or not, that's another discussion.
That's not what *your* article says, though. It says the US claims to have evidence that the back door exists and *could* be used, not that they claim to have proof of it having been used. The title and opening paragraph directly imply that it *has been / is being used*, which is misleading in the context of the information you provide here.
Personally, while I have little doubt that Huawei would use such backdoors as and when suits them, I still find it very rich that the US government are crying wolf over this when we know full well that they engage in the exact same behaviour. The FBI even attempted a smear campaign against Apple for refusing to create security holes in their devices.
You are right, my bad. Should have added "allegedly" to the title and all would have been more clear. It won't happen again, I promise. :)
Yes, I totally agree with you that the US government is crying wolf only when it suits them well. I think this is more of a business-related battle than anything else. I would add some extra thoughts, but I am afraid that I would get way too biased, so I'll keep them to myself.
What is wrong with everyone ? Google and Facebook have been tracking our emails photos locations contacts and who know what else for YEARS and "we" seem to be ok with that so why do I care if the Chinese gov is watching me ?? AND has anyone realized this is more about money than privacy ? Huawei is killing apple both in phone sales and their new 5G tec is taking Billions in profit that the US wishes it could have. It should have been obvious by the fact this all started with a US / Chine trade war. Trump has lied to us basically every time he opens his mouth and thus lost respect of (what I'm guessing is) every other country on the planet so should we believe what he says about Huawei but can't prove ?
PS my P30 phone makes apple seem like garbage by comparison and for half the price too. Shame on apple
Umm somebody else was caught red handed, PRISM, FISA Court, Snowden? oh no the Chinese are doing the same.
It's less about security (why should I pick one country over other when both are prying) and more about egos / economics
obviously, American equipment have backdoors for american intelligence and vice-versa + Apple / Qualcomm are being beaten by Huawei, BBK Electronics and Xiaomi
Whats Funny with the Huawei ban is realistically it is china that makes 70% of the worlds mobile phones and as a guestimate around 60% of all products worldwide as seemingly everything has the trademark 'Made in China' so its highly comical that the US is banning huawei china should just stop supplying Us with products and theyd be screwed.
While the popular narrative has been that Huawei has been banned because if spying, they were officially put on the do-no-business list because they sold and delivered hardware containing US-designed hw/sw components to a country under sanctions: Iran.
While Trump has been fear-mongering and media helped him spread FUD for his political agenda, this is the only reason so far that US is officially using to ban Huawei and not any other Chinese company. This means that this is probably the only thing they have proof of that can stand in their own legal system.