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Lenovo LOQ 15 Core i7 Review: Affordable Legion alternative that throws up an Intel vs AMD conundrum

Started by Redaktion, October 14, 2023, 08:34:19

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Redaktion

With the LOQ 15IRH8, Lenovo aims to deliver a distinctive, capable gaming laptop that goes easy on the wallet without the baggage of its other budget lineups. Does this plastic-clad contender succeed? How does this Core i7-13620H model fare against its similarly priced AMD Zen 4-powered cousin? Our testing reveals a mixed bag.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-LOQ-15-Core-i7-Review-Affordable-Legion-alternative-that-throws-up-an-Intel-vs-AMD-conundrum.758130.0.html

Anne42

Seeing the verdict, I think we are all very clear, I would buy the version with Ryzen 7 7840HS without hesitation for several reasons.
AMD 4nm vs Intel at 10nm++++
Less heating in AMD, less consumption compared to Intel.
Although the RTX graphics are smaller, enough for 1080.
AMD Artificial intelligence capability Intel does not have it.
Price of the ADM version $1000 USD. cheaper than intel.
Featuring AMD (15APH8) with the Zen 4 Ryzen 7 7840HS CPU, GeForce RTX 4050 GPU, and 1080p 144 Hz IPS display retailing for roughly $1000 USD. It only comes with 8 GB of RAM, but this is fortunately user-upgradeable. Cheaper and more expensive SKUs exist with the Ryzen 5 7640HS, RTX 3050 or 4060, and 1080p 60 Hz to 1440p 165 Hz display ranging from under $800 USD to over $1100 USD. Intel versions of the LOQ 15 (15IRH8) are also available in both 15-inch and 16-inch (LOQ 16) screen sizes.

NikoB

The shame and stupid greed of Lenovo (or direct collusion with Intel) led to a completely obscene version of AMD - despite the fact that there are 2 built-in USB40 ports and 2 10Gbps ports, they did not bring a single USB40 out and, moreover, as if they were deliberately mocking those who choose the AMD option - only the shameful USB2.0 was displayed on the right - although they could easily have brought USB 3.2 Gen2 and USB 2.0 (hidden for the mouse beacon) there. And in the back there are 2 USB40 ports and on the left USB-A 10Gbps.

But in our stores, the AMD version is much more profitable than the garbage from Intel, despite the absence of USB40 and the deliberate disabling of usb 3.2 Gen2 on the right - we have a version with a 7640HS (which is faster than the shameful entry-level "i7" mentioned in the review) and with a 2.5k screen and The GTX4060 costs $1020 with a 1 year warranty.

It is obvious that only a complete idiot would buy the Intel version for the specified money, compared to the version with AMD that is much faster, albeit without USB40 and usb-a Gen 3.2 ports (which could also be better than Intel - Gen2) on the right.

In any case, taking into account the significantly higher noise (Intel is at least 1.5 times noisier according to 2 NB reviews!) at low load, despite the shameful loss in processor speed, I do NOT recommend the Intel version.

It's crazy for me to see when cheap series supposedly have better contrast than expensive ones, like Legion 5 Pro and Legion 7, not to mention the Asus Strix/SCAR 17/18" series. I have little faith that the contrast numbers in the reviews are correct - because Lenovo is for LOQ series claims shameful 170/170 viewing angles even for the 2.5k version of the screen and in both cases a standard contrast of 1000: 1. How the authors intended 1100: 1+ is unclear to me, given the frequent loss of Legion Pro+ in their own reviews, even though the contrast is indicated there 1200:1 and 178/178. The puzzle just doesn't fit...

Judging by the temperatures under heavy load - this series will not last long for the gamers - 1.2-1.5 years and hardware failure is almost certain - I recommend immediately purchasing an additional 2-year warranty at the end of the standard 1-year warranty from the factory for this series, if it is available in your country, this particular category of buyers. For avid players, purchasing it will be beneficial in the long term.

NikoB

Let me explain my point of view once again, why not the removal of built-in ports is pure fraud on the part of both the manufacturer of processors and laptops, but rather a general conspiracy.

When buying a SoC with built-in controllers, you inevitably pay for all of them, regardless of whether the greedy manufacturer of a series of laptops provides these ports or not. If the SoC manufacturer (for example, AMD) sold Zen4 Phoenix in a truncated form without USB40 controllers and some other components at a reduced price, I and adequate consumers would not have any questions for the laptop manufacturer - no, no trial.

But they sell you a deliberately full version of the SoC with 2 USB40 ports in the case of AMD, which does not even require soldering a separate retimer chip on the board if the video ports are also used from igpu, and not from dgpu, and usb streams also do not come from an external controller. In fact, in the case of gaming and especially business solutions without a discrete gpu, a retimer chip in the case of the Zen4 Phoenix series is NOT needed at all. But it is needed in the case of other SoCs from AMD. Likewise, a retimer is not needed in the case of Intel U/P/H series, where the presence of TB4 in the SoC is indicated, and video outputs from a discrete gpu are also not used on TB4 outputs. Most often, again, in business decisions.

The built-in USB40/TB4 controller raises the price of Soc for both AMD and Intel by at least $30-40 compared to the version without it, if it were available. The buyer could use this saved money to double the RAM or SSD, for example. Just like the manufacturer when creating a laptop on truncated versions of SoC from AMD and Intel without USB40/TB4 controllers.

In the same way, you can talk rationally and sensibly about other expensive functional blocks of the SoC and other microcircuits on the motherboard of laptops, which are in the SoC, but are not intentionally brought out by the manufacturer, if the output chain outside on such a motherboard is obviously cheaper, than the cost of this functionality in the SoC. This is obviously true in the case of TB4/USB40 controllers. Especially, looking at how wildly and unjustifiably the retail prices for different options go - for example, as in the review - the price of the version with a half-dead i7+4050, but with a built-in TB4 controller, which is NOT brought out, is absurdly SIGNIFICANTLY higher than the version with the AMD 7640HS and 4060, which obviously cannot be. And the difference in the cost of both options with a retimer microcircuit and power harness in both options is significantly lower than the retail prices for both options.

In addition, in retail there are new Legion 5 Pro with 6800H+3060, which cost $1100, which have a soldered retimer chip, because... there is a USB40 port, despite the fact that there are no built-in USB40 ports in the Zen3+, according to AMD specifications. Which obviously clearly says that bringing the USB40 port out through an additional USB40 controller and a retimer chip (and this is obviously clearly more expensive than bringing out a ready-made, built-in port in the SoC. Do you agree?) does not significantly increase the price, despite the fact that the 6800H +3060 16/1TB is cheaper than this, weaker version of LOQ 2023.

It is obvious that technically illiterate ordinary people are simply being cheated out of extra money by the manufacturers of all laptops with expensive and extremely necessary and more profitable SoC functions (especially in the case of the 2022/2023 GTX4050, which is completely unsuitable for games, even in High quality with fps not below 60) as USB40/TB4 ports are intentionally not output. The saved output costs, despite the fact that the buyer is still sold the full version of the SoC at full price, falls into the pockets of the fraudulent laptop manufacturers.

When a cheaper version of the screen, keyboard and the rest is installed there, this is understandable if there is a choice. But consumers have NO choice to refuse the most expensive version of the SoC, which immediately integrates all expensive functions, such as USB40/TB4 controllers and video ports, for example.

It turns out that both AMD and Intel are selling SoC at the full selling price of the SoC manufacturers to the consumer, as part of laptops, and the mandatory ports and functions are intentionally disabled purely for marketing and mercantile reasons. Prices are set according to countries and are distributed in retail so that the difference literally covers the output of all ports and functionality of the SoC, with a margin.

It all comes down to the direct deception of technically illiterate buyers (of which 95%+) on the planet, due to which SoC manufacturers (where there is a direct oligopoly in the x86 market in the form of 2 companies, which excludes market pricing for their products - this is the task of setting prices, their products should already be dealt with by the antitrust authorities in each country) laptops and greedy laptop manufacturers.

This wild situation will continue as long as consumers remain as technically illiterate as possible. Alas, they will continue to be like this, the majority. Moreover, most likely in the future, they will be even more stupid, as shown by the global trends in the decline in education, especially in the last 20 years.

NikoB

For this reason, the specified version cannot possibly cost more than $850-900 at retail compared to the AMD version on the 7640HS+4060 16/512 with a 2.5k top-end screen for this series, for $1020. Most likely even below $850 - 750-800. By buying it for $1200+, you are actually giving speculators at retail or Lenovo an extra $250-300, as a minimum, for which you could install a 32GB and 2TB SSD or a 64GB and 1TB SSD yourself. Or get an extended warranty (including from a reliable retailer for an additional 2-3 years above the standard 1 year from Lenovo, which is very important for frequent gamers).

It is the understanding of all the nuances that forces IT manufacturers to set adequate prices for products, and retail speculators to reduce markups to an adequate level. Otherwise no one will buy. And if they agreed (oligopoly conspiracy), then this is a matter for the antimonopoly authorities.

In a truly free market, with sufficient competition in each niche (which is methodically supported by the state by cruelly punishing anti-competitive practices), prices are automatically aligned to the optimal level with a minimum markup to cost.

It is obvious that we do not now live in a free market and in the absence of real competition in IT, because... expensive SoCs are being imposed on us from only 2 players in the x86 market, without any right for buyers of the final products to save. They sell you only SoCs with maximum functionality, and laptop manufacturers do not bring this functionality out, shifting the costs of this into their pockets, but imposing on consumers only such, complete SoC options from AMD/Intel, without any choice, for example, without USB40/ controllers. TB4 in the LOQ series from Lenovo. Some hypothetically obviously cheaper series of processors with the -NU suffix, for example / (i.e. no USB40/TB4 built-in controllers, such as Intel sells desktop versions with ipgu and -F without it, i.e. with chip rejection ), which would immediately lead to a drop in the cost of laptops in this series, even from the factory.

Poster

Well that was a lengthy 're-accessment' by NikoB.
Sadly, these words are spoken to deaf ears in the tech industry and review sites like this one who don't ever lambast the manufacturers for leaving out features that should be standard (and are standard in products like being reviewed) after years of being released.
I'm personally annoyed when a Zen4 or even intel 12th gen+ based laptop doesn't come with USB4/TB4 port. Who are they to decide if I'm going to use that bandwith? Apparently I've already paid for the feature, so why you stole it from me?

RobertJasiek

Although I also call out companies for greed and rip-off, I applaud NikoB for his regular and clear view on the matter! Companies must be scolded as often as they try to cheat.

NikoB

www.paradetech.com/products/ps8830/
Price for retimer's chip:
www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/211299/intel-jhl9040r-thunderbolt-4-retimer/ordering.html

And this is a small wholesale, not a large one, where prices are 1.5 times lower..

Even if the quality of the conductors on the motherboard is below par, a pair of microcircuits for $4 can easily correct the situation with amplification for the port on the left and right or 2 in the back.

This is pure stupid greed of the manufacturers and a marketing attempt to deliberately make the laptop worse than the SoC allows. Much worse. This should be publicly condemned and this is a disgusting policy that has turned the market into an oligopolistic conspiracy on the planet with the deliberate inhibition of real progress in mass products, which Intel and AMD are trying to bring the market to. It's just vile and base. Immoral behavior of bosses of laptop companies.

As well as with other ports built into the SoC, the output of which to the outside really costs a penny, but greatly increases the comfort of the owners of such series.

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