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Intel Russia shrinks to one employee, incurs losses with zero sales

Started by Redaktion, April 30, 2024, 02:05:32

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Redaktion

Two years ago, Intel employed 1200 people in Russia, but the workforce has now been downsized to one individual. Intel Russia also did not generate any sales last year and recorded losses in the millions.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Russia-shrinks-to-one-employee-incurs-losses-with-zero-sales.832478.0.html

NikoB

All greedy and immoral Western companies continue to secretly (although this is an open secret) sell their products in the Russian Federation either directly or through intermediaries. Business on blood has always been an extremely profitable business until presumptuous immoral businessmen were caught red-handed and sent to prison.

Intel processors are still sold in the Russian Federation and prices are close to American ones. Just like motherboards and laptops. Except Dell. But they themselves decided to almost leave the Russian market before the beginning of 2022. Much like Ford before.

Here is another fact of the duplicity and ostentation of the West's false support for Ukraine:
www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/airbus-wins-reprieve-canadian-sanctions-russian-titanium-2024-04-23/

Imagine if the USA and England received aviation alloys from Nazi Germany during World War II? Or fuel, as almost all of Europe does through intermediaries (and some blatantly directly)?? What's it like, huh?

All of them, the creatures above, have long since sung together and are working in unison, and the sheep in the trenches are dying for no reason, simply because the gentlemen above wanted it that way.

Only now it's all so clear that you're simply amazed at the cynicism of the majority of the world's population. Previously, people did not at least have such a macro-picture, but now it has become clear that the majority of the world's population are soulless creatures. After all, they do nothing to stop these scoundrels at the top, who simply continue to do business on blood...

Or here's another cynical business based on human blood:
www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/monitor/ukraine-mariupol-wiederaufbau-russland-100.html

The other day they wrote - www.ft.com/content/cd6c28e2-d327-4c2a-a023-098ca43eacfb that Western banks paid 4 times more taxes to the Russian Federation in 2023 than in 2021. Excellent support for the Kremlin's military machine...

Etc. and so on. Hundreds of large Western companies continue to secretly conduct business in Russia, despite public declarations to the contrary.

Business is immoral and greedy and there is no crime that he would not commit. But corrupt politicians and the executive branch diligently do not notice this...

True NikoB


SneakyFrickinRussian

>Business is immoral and greedy and there is no crime that he would not commit. But corrupt politicians and the executive branch diligently do not notice this...

You, just like most other Western citizens, didn't even notice ukraine was using military aviation and rocket artillery systems against Donbas civilians 10 years ago. You didn't notice Odessa fire massacre at local House of Unions on 02.05.14 , nor you didn't notice ukraine regime silently omitted proper investigation of it (and Maidan shootings as well). You didn't notice ukraine regime eyes wide shut on journalists killings (Oles Buzina) and persecutions (Igor Guzhva). You didn't notice ukraine regime persecution on Ukrainian Orthodox Church, on freedom of press and speech, on freedom of using native language just because it is Russian language.

And now you dare not to see what's going on in Gaza. Oh, you see? So, how much sanctions your democratically elected government did introduce on those, who made Gaza catastrophe happen? No one yet since October, whereas Russia got full pack of it in a couple of days since 24.02.22 .

No, it's not business, it's you with your corrupt and hypocrite moral, who allows all of it to happen. If there was somebody fair and brave enough to admit ukraine regime crimes on Donbass people in 2014 and to stop them, there will be no war now.

NikoB

Quote from: SneakyFrickinRussian on April 30, 2024, 18:23:44You, just like most other Western citizens, didn't even notice ukraine was using military aviation and rocket artillery systems against Donbas civilians 10 years ago
Blatant lies of a Putinist. But the fact is that the FSB destroyed houses в 1999 in the Russian Federation, and then the frightened and stupid people approved the war against Chechnya, which wanted independence, like your Donbass.

Why did Yeltsin and then Putin kill hundreds of thousands of Chechens who fought for independence? Using tanks, military aviation and rocket artillery systems against civilians as well. As a result, power in Chechnya was transferred to pro-Kremlin bandits who brazenly flout all laws.

Donbass is the territory of Ukraine and it has the right to destroy all terrorists who are trying to carry out a separatist uprising in order to separate a piece from Ukraine. Exactly the same way Russia suppressed the separatists in Chechnya.

Well, as a Putinist, will you come back? Or will you quietly disappear, so now you have nothing to answer?

SneakyFrickinRussian

Chechnya war was preceded by mass exodus of non-Chechen citizens, caused by nationalistic uprise of Chechens towards other nationality owners. Murders, rapes, death beatings, kidnapping, people disappearing and other violent crimes became quite usual, and law enforcement couldn't (or didn't want to) stop it. Train, car and street robberies were taking place every day. Oil refinery plants were quickly hijacked by Chechen nationalist bands, with all income from it being used for ammunition acquisition. Chechen nationalists were also known to paint walls with graffities like "Russians, stop going out, we need slaves". All of this sh*t became possible due to lack of proper local and federal government, drunken dumbf*ck Yeltsin was too busy helping his oligarch friends to steal state-owned assets. In a couple of years since 1990, but before first war beginning in 1994, percentage of non-Chechen citizens of Chechnya had fallen from 70 to about 10 - without any war. If you (in fantastic parallel universe) would ask yourself, what really was going on in Chechnya at that time, Yugoslavia and South Africa are of among the best examples. Even so called Donbass people republics in 2014 were less a mess. Google for the book "Chechen war" by Yevgeny Norin. There is a proper reconstruction of that time.

What is always being omitted from discussion by propagandists like you is a simple fact that so called "Chechen rebels" were simply terrorists who didn't want (and never intended to) to restrict their crime actions within Chechnya borders. Basaev ordered all of his most cruel terrorist attacks against civilians (Buddenovsk, Nord-Ost, Beslan massacres) outside of Chechnya. This cannot be judged as separatism, this is terrorism in its distilled form. This is only the first, but by no means last difference with Donbass separatists.

I, being born in Donbass and living in Russia for the past 36 years, could write much more on it, but I'm clearly don't know what to discuss with you. Usually I'm not fond of talking with people who claims themselves having healthy mind (do you?) and support Chechen terrorists. If you, being able to read about Beslan school massacre in 2004 and see photos, still can support Chechen terrorists, then I'm clearly don't have anything to talk with you. Bye-bye.

NikoB

Quote from: SneakyFrickinRussian on May 01, 2024, 14:37:15Chechnya war was preceded by mass exodus of non-Chechen citizens, caused by nationalistic uprise of Chechens towards other nationality owners. Murders, rapes, death beatings, kidnapping, people disappearing and other violent crimes became quite usual, and law enforcement couldn't (or didn't want to) stop it. Train, car and street robberies were taking place every day. Oil refinery plants were quickly hijacked by Chechen nationalist bands, with all income from it
Quote from: SneakyFrickinRussian on May 01, 2024, 14:37:15Basaev ordered all of his most cruel terrorist attacks against civilians (Buddenovsk, Nord-Ost, Beslan massacres) outside of Chechnya.
Who blew up houses in Moscow, Volgodonsk and Buinaksk in the fall of 1999, just when Putin became prime minister after being the head of the KGB (FSB)? And he needed election against the backdrop of the stupid population's fear of artificially created chaos - a "firm hand" when Yeltsin abandoned power on December 31, 1999? Remember how Putin promised to defend democracy, the rights and freedoms of citizens, and the constitution in 1999? And what is left of them and her in 2024? (watch the film "Palace" by Polanski - there is a direct insertion of this speech by Putin in 1999 - by the way, Russian censorship removed this speech оf 31.12.1999 of "acting president" Putin from the film in the official translation, by the way). Why did they happen exactly when it was most profitable? It was definitely not Basayev and it has not been proven that they were Chechens. Otherwise, the terrorist attacks continued. And they suddenly stopped.

The mentioned terrorist attacks happened during Putin's first reign in the second Chechen war, which he started, so as not to lose Chechnya and not receive further de-federalization of Russia. And one of them in 1995, right at the height of the first Chechen war. No connection? And it is clearly visible to many rationally thinking people, especially after what happened with the invasion of Georgia in 2008, then Crimea/Donbass in 2014 and the direct invasion of Ukraine in 2022.

If a duck quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it's definitely a duck.

Taking into account financial losses (including future ones) and manpower, reputation (those who promised to ensure the territorial integrity of Ukraine according to the Budapest Memorandum, according to which naive (or their corrupt government in the 90s) Ukrainians gave 3000 warheads) - wouldn't it be cheaper to arrange for everyone to Russian "freedom" for the residents of Ukraine, to arrange a magnificent resettlement to Russia? By giving everyone a house with a plot of land? Is there not enough space in Russia with 1/5 of the earth's landmass? Maybe it's not a matter of protecting the interests of a certain "Russian" layer, but simply the fear that Ukraine is quickly leaving their influence and showing the cowardly mental slaves in Russia that it is possible to live differently and much better than them? And this is envy, and this is the collapse of Putin's mafia rule with the power of the KGB. Just like what happened with the USSR, when, under the pressure of a clearly better life, rights and freedoms in the West, the local population no longer wanted to live in a concentration camp. But it was not ready to create normal conditions, and the West cynically abandoned this young country after the collapse of the USSR, predetermining a return to revanchite ideas and hatred of the West. Everything here is completely covered up. And there is no excuse for anyone. But the fact is that it was Russia, flouting international pacts and laws, that invaded a foreign country and began to destroy cities and kill Ukrainians who did not agree to be under their heel. And the collapse of Russia is inevitable. Even with nuclear weapons. Even an 8 times larger nuclear arsenal did not help the USSR from collapse. Apparently the authorities of the USSR were not as frostbitten as the current authorities of Russia, where they are imprisoned for posters with the word "Peace" and for having hairstyles in blue and yellow tones, they kill political prisoners and massively use criminals (including murderers) in the war in Ukraine, giving them awards and honor in this new alternative reality, where it is simply impossible for normal people to exist. So they all run away from there, although the exit there is practically blocked.


NikoB

 
Quote from: SneakyFrickinRussian on May 01, 2024, 14:37:15Basaev ordered all of his most cruel terrorist attacks against civilians (Buddenovsk, Nord-Ost, Beslan massacres) outside of Chechnya.
Who blew up houses in Moscow, Volgodonsk and Buinaksk in the fall of 1999, just when Putin became prime minister after being the head of the KGB (FSB)? And he needed election against the backdrop of the stupid population's fear of artificially created chaos - a "firm hand" when Yeltsin abandoned power on December 31, 1999? Remember how Putin promised to defend democracy, the rights and freedoms of citizens, and the constitution in 1999? And what is left of them and her in 2024? (watch the film "Palace" by Polanski - there is a direct insertion of this speech by Putin in 1999 - by the way, Russian censorship removed this speech оf 31.12.1999 of "acting president" Putin from the film in the official translation, by the way). Why did they happen exactly when it was most profitable? It was definitely not Basayev and it has not been proven that they were Chechens. Otherwise, the terrorist attacks continued. And they suddenly stopped.

The mentioned terrorist attacks happened during Putin's first reign in the second Chechen war, which he started, so as not to lose Chechnya and not receive further de-federalization of Russia. And one of them in 1995, right at the height of the first Chechen war. No connection? And it is clearly visible to many rationally thinking people, especially after what happened with the invasion of Georgia in 2008, then Crimea/Donbass in 2014 and the direct invasion of Ukraine in 2022.

If a duck quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it's definitely a duck.

Taking into account financial losses (including future ones) and manpower, reputation (those who promised to ensure the territorial integrity of Ukraine according to the Budapest Memorandum, according to which naive (or their corrupt government in the 90s) Ukrainians gave 3000 warheads) - wouldn't it be cheaper to arrange for everyone to Russian "freedom" for the residents of Ukraine, to arrange a magnificent resettlement to Russia? By giving everyone a house with a plot of land? Is there not enough space in Russia with 1/5 of the earth's landmass? Maybe it's not a matter of protecting the interests of a certain "Russian" layer, but simply the fear that Ukraine is quickly leaving their influence and showing the cowardly mental slaves in Russia that it is possible to live differently and much better than them? And this is envy, and this is the collapse of Putin's mafia rule with the power of the KGB. Just like what happened with the USSR, when, under the pressure of a clearly better life, rights and freedoms in the West, the local population no longer wanted to live in a concentration camp. But it was not ready to create normal conditions, and the West cynically abandoned this young country after the collapse of the USSR, predetermining a return to revanchite ideas and hatred of the West. Everything here is completely covered up. And there is no excuse for anyone. But the fact is that it was Russia, flouting international pacts and laws, that invaded a foreign country and began to destroy cities and kill Ukrainians who did not agree to be under their heel. And the collapse of Russia is inevitable. Even with nuclear weapons. Even an 8 times larger nuclear arsenal did not help the USSR from collapse. Apparently the authorities of the USSR were not as frostbitten as the current authorities of Russia, where they are imprisoned for posters with the word "Peace" and for having hairstyles in blue and yellow tones, they kill political prisoners and massively use criminals (including murderers) in the war in Ukraine, giving them awards and honor in this new alternative reality, where it is simply impossible for normal people to exist. So they all run away from there, although the exit there is practically blocked.


NikoB

And I wrote many times that the Ukrainian government, since February 2022, has completely degenerated into a totalitarian one under the pressure of war. And the West is still cynically and duplicitously silent on this matter, publicly declaring only one thing: "this is a complex issue." Because this also raises questions about what is happening in Western countries themselves since 2020.
On the one hand, the Western authorities publicly assure that they support the rights and freedoms of citizens enshrined in the UN Declaration of Human Rights, and at the same time calmly look at the fact that the authorities, even of a defending country, are forcing people to go to war and imprisoning people for refusing to fight and wanting to leave this country. country as a free person, and not a slave of slave owners, because it does not consider this corrupt government to be something worth dying for (but not for the children of the elite), because Ukraine has just begun the process of liberation from the totalitarian secret shackles of Russia and this attempt was stopped completely in February 2022. Only true patriots can fight. Patriots are in the head, not in words. When the patriots (or idiots) run out, the totalitarian power of coercion begins in favor of the powerful stratum.

It was once correctly said in the past - in any war started by the elite, the adult children of the elite (especially legislators, the government, judges, prosecutors and other types of "security officials") must go to war, without fail, in the front row, according to the constitution, without any excuses . Then there will never be any more wars on planet Earth.

But it's surprising - not a single Constitution, not a single country, has an article that the children of this very powerful elite go to war first in full force. Strange, right? And it clearly shows for whom the laws were actually invented and work...

A

Quote from: SneakyFrickinRussian on April 30, 2024, 18:23:44>Business is immoral and greedy and there is no crime that he would not commit. But corrupt politicians and the executive branch diligently do not notice this...

You, just like most other Western citizens, didn't even notice ukraine was using military aviation and rocket artillery systems against Donbas civilians 10 years ago. You didn't notice Odessa fire massacre at local House of Unions on 02.05.14 , nor you didn't notice ukraine regime silently omitted proper investigation of it (and Maidan shootings as well). You didn't notice ukraine regime eyes wide shut on journalists killings (Oles Buzina) and persecutions (Igor Guzhva). You didn't notice ukraine regime persecution on Ukrainian Orthodox Church, on freedom of press and speech, on freedom of using native language just because it is Russian language.

And now you dare not to see what's going on in Gaza. Oh, you see? So, how much sanctions your democratically elected government did introduce on those, who made Gaza catastrophe happen? No one yet since October, whereas Russia got full pack of it in a couple of days since 24.02.22 .

No, it's not business, it's you with your corrupt and hypocrite moral, who allows all of it to happen. If there was somebody fair and brave enough to admit ukraine regime crimes on Donbass people in 2014 and to stop them, there will be no war now.

You seem to be forgetting the protest in Donbas against the Russian separatists, they were upset that the Russian separatist were using Donbas citizens as human shields to attack from civilian locations so that when retaliated against, civilians end up dying

To which the Russian separatist leader admitted on video that "yes we use you as human shields, but it lets us win"

In the first place, all of this could have easily been addressed in the UN. Ukraine was fine with letting UN peace keepers in to insure safety. But Russia wouldn't allow it, up until 2016 when Russian separatists couldn't take any more land from Ukraine. At that point, Putin said he would allow UN peacekeepers, but only for 6 months. Everyone found it weird how it was so short a timeframe, but ultimately Ukraine agreed under the condition that no Russian UN troops be sent to their side. And guess what? Russia vetoed it! All they wanted was to send spies in for 6 months to resume the offensive

The whole pretext Russia has fell flat when they decided to integrate the areas into Russia. That their goal was conquest from day 1 using the same exact method Hitler used

And do note there was an agreement between Russia and Ukraine, the Budapest which Russia violated


NikoB

Ukraine had enough patriots in the first months of the invasion and a strong spirit. But they all died due to the fault of not only Putin's Russia, but the West, which at the level of intelligence services knew perfectly well about the upcoming invasion and preparations for it for more than a year, did not accept or do anything at the level of dangerously two-faced populist politicians to strengthen Ukrainian patriots with modern Western weapons at the right critical time.

As everyone already knows, the West measured out weapons in exactly the right doses and quality throughout 2022 in order to, by agreement with Putin, allow his troops to gain a foothold in previously secretly agreed upon territories.

All "support" for Ukraine was reduced only to massive media support, and just when large inflation hit the West due to the fault of kleptocrats/bankers and the population supporting populists. The first thing Biden lied in March 2022 in the very first weeks of March was about "Putin's inflation" - this speech is on the White House website, word for word. When anyone who understands economics and any economist/analyst knew that in such a short time it could not have penetrated into all the pores of the life of Western countries. But all traders and analysts saw how it is, inflation is quickly gaining momentum after the printing of trillions in 2020 and 2021, and even with the spilling out of old QE from stock markets into the real economy. The artificial canopy of fiat candy wrappers was already so large and so clearly visible to all adequate people at the end of 2021 (as well as the growing indignation at the covid scam among the population at the same time), that it is obvious that the powerful stratum of Western countries that embarked on the criminal totalitarian path in 2019 (and then also a reboot of the market was needed, because everything was going to collapse and so) it was necessary to distract attention with something large-scale. Afghanistan was a well-established topic, so Ukraine came in handy. Putin's power of course was swinging, but he could survive 2022-2023 relatively calmly, but apparently he launched the invasion after secret blackmail and eventually an agreement that he would receive part of Ukraine, in exchange for a guaranteed shock created artificially for Westerners. They all played in unison. It is for this reason that oil, gas, metals, uranium, grain continue to flow into Western countries as before, only through longer, roundabout routes. What would be unthinkable would be if Putin's Russia really were the blood enemy of the kleptocracy of the West. But a fisherman sees a fisherman from afar, right? When there are common interests (or when the danger of a real conflict could stop the existence of Western states), it is better to reach an agreement in secret.

And why? Because the entire West in reality, as expected, turned out to be cowards, and when Putin and his coda threatened with a nuclear strike, the West retreated at the decisive moment and betrayed Ukraine.

And now neither planes nor anything will help Ukraine - because there are practically no more patriots - they all died and were mentally reborn after more than 2 years of this massacre, having seen where the Ukrainian kleptocracy is leading and heading towards. There is no more layer of support.

And why should young Ukrainians (or Russians) live in these terrible countries, where there is no longer any prospect of living a normal human life? These are dead territories. Both Russia and Ukraine. Only mental slaves remain there, and the free ones either flee from there or are tortured and killed in dungeons.

What about the Ukrainians? The West looks cynically at how the Ukrainian authorities blocked the departure of millions of men and allowed the destruction of millions of families, because... women with children remained in Europe and other countries, and their men in Ukraine were either slaves or had already been killed. But for male predators in Europe there are so many young women at once. And a good injection into the society of non-Arab, African tribes. and relatively mentally close Ukrainians. They killed two birds with one stone - and the demography will improve and the Arab-African diasporas with a mentality alien to Europeans will sharply decrease in percentage terms.

Just think about it - millions of families destroyed. They have been without their men for more than 2 years. This is a collapse. Only rich strata manage to escape for bribes to the corrupt security forces of Ukraine. And the bribes are getting higher and higher.

This week, Ukraine, a supposedly "free" country (albeit defending itself from aggression), announced that it was officially withdrawing from European human rights conventions.

The war is dragging on more and more. Putin's Russia is increasingly strengthening itself in the occupied territories, with the calm connivance of the West, which provides exactly as many weapons as necessary for the process to proceed exactly in the direction that is beneficial to all key players. But not to the fallen patriots of Ukraine and their relatives.

What will missiles and planes and tanks change now in 2024 in strictly dosed portions, when Ukraine has practically no combat-ready troops left, strong in spirit, and Putin can calmly overwhelm their offensive with the carcasses of his slaves, albeit weak in spirit, since he has a lot of them ?

Do the men who remain in Ukraine really need all this? What is this all for? There are fewer and fewer naive ordinary citizens who see the feast, the chaos being created and the embezzlement of those in power during the war, and propaganda is working worse and worse. And why do the remnants of free-thinking people in Russia need all this? Neither in Ukraine, obviously, there will be any free country in the next 10-15 years, with such an unbridled kleptocracy, much less any Russia of a "bright future", even if Putin dies tomorrow - because the mentality of the majority of Russians is terrible and scary, they this was proven not by word, but by deed. The next day after Putin's funeral, they will immediately choose a new "tsar". Because the majority in Russia cannot think otherwise. They never lived freely for centuries, even in the 90s, it was only a shadow of freedoms and rights, but not real rights and freedoms that the slaves were simply not mentally ready to fight fo...

To any powerful kleptocracy, smart, well-educated people are of no value unless they work for them. This means that for kleptocrats, the value of life, such developed people, is zero and killing them costs them nothing, because they still cannot derive any benefit from them for themselves.

People in Europe and North America now naively believe that this fate will bypass them (not noticing how totalitarian laws and large corporations are increasingly swallowing up freedom and rights), but everything is heading towards a big planetary massacre and the forced mobilization of surplus and obstinate inhabitants into the trenches Western countries are also just around the corner. It will be so, because this is already predetermined by civil passivity and submission to the obvious duplicity and manifestation of evil on the part of the majority of the increasingly stupid population...

Funeral pyres will burn everywhere, there will be nowhere to hide...

NikoB

I love writing paragraphs of blithering garbage that nobody will read because it's so stupid.

SneakyFrickinRussian

>Who blew up houses in Moscow, Volgodonsk and Buinaksk in the fall of 1999, just when Putin became prime minister after being the head of the KGB (FSB)?

You seem to completely missing the timeline. Let me refresh your memory.

1991 - collapse of USSR
1991-1994 - anarchy in Chechnya, Chechen nationalism uprise, mass exodus of non-Chechen citizens, crime and violence at full power
1994 - tanks in Grozny, capital of Chechnya, aviation and artillery bombing resulting in massive deaths of both separatists and civilians, full scale civil war
1995 - Budennovsk (at mainland Russia) maternity hospital terrorist siege, Chechen terrorists lead by Basayev shooting from opened windows from behind of pregnant women, over hundred civilians dead at the end
1996 - Kizlar (at Dagestan, part of Russia) hospital terrorist siege, dozens of civilians dead
1996 - Hasav-Yurt agreements, de-facto Russia's surrender
1996-1999 - anarchy in Chechnya, slave market in Grozny, terrorism and separatism uprising, Sharia law in Chechnya, public executions for adultery
July 1999 - Chechen terrorists are going on trip outside of Chechnya to attack Dagestan border posts, some videos with Russian soldiers throats being cut by knife accompanied by sound of their blood wheezing in lungs even after death - are still available on Internets
August 1999 - greedy, corrupt, angry, evil, source-of-all-sins Putin becoming prime minister of Russia
...and finally - fall of 1999 - "blew up houses in Moscow, Volgodonsk and Buinaksk"

So, the story is very clear - Putin is root of all evil!

SneakyFrickinRussian

>You seem to be forgetting the protest in Donbas against the Russian separatists, they were upset that the Russian separatist were using Donbas citizens as human shields to attack from civilian locations so that when retaliated against, civilians end up dying

This is the sad game, which being played since by both opponents. And please don't call separatists as Russians - initially only Donbass locals with a very few exceptions were trying to separate from ukraine. Your ukrainian friends will be upset for your stances, since they count all Donbass citizens as being ethnically ukrainians - despite almost 90% of them speaking only Russian language and not less than 60% of them calling themselves as Russians. Real Russians were very slow to enter, basically not earlier than August 2014.

>To which the Russian separatist leader admitted on video that "yes we use you as human shields, but it lets us win"

They won because Donbass being ethnically and culturally Russian for many decades. In fact, Chechnya is much less Russian than Donbass. I was born there about 39 years ago, had relocated to Russia about 34 years ago, and I still have relatives living there. I've visited Donbass almost every year since, and could see what was happening here over years. ukraine was failed state for many years, and Donbass was her unloved child. ukraine as a state did almost nothing to economically, culturally and socially develop Donbass. I've seen it degrading for many years. If you live in Europe, I bet you couldn't even approximately understand how deep was Donbass dive from urbanized highly developed region with excellent infrastructure to degraded depressive place since ukraine gaining independence. Western-oriented ukraine leaders always knew who populated Donbass, and they both never had any dreams or misunderstandings about each other.

A

Quote from: SneakyFrickinRussian on May 01, 2024, 23:27:06This is the sad game, which being played since by both opponents. And please don't call separatists as Russians - initially only Donbass locals with a very few exceptions were trying to separate from ukraine. Your ukrainian friends will be upset for your stances, since they count all Donbass citizens as being ethnically ukrainians - despite almost 90% of them speaking only Russian language and not less than 60% of them calling themselves as Russians. Real Russians were very slow to enter, basically not earlier than August 2014.

Ukraine doesn't count the people there as ethnically Ukrainian or ethnically Russian, they count them as Ukrainian citizens. Only Russia makes a fuss about classifying ethnicity and they count anyone who speaks Russian as Russian ethnicity. And they use that as an excuse to go to war

The only reason Ukraine clarifies Ukrainian ethnicity is because they don't want to be labeled as ethnically Russians by Russia because as Russia is concerned, they see themselves a rulers of anyone labeled as such

That said, as far as the census went in 2001, 56.9% of people in Donetsk see themselves as Ukrainian, and 38.2% as Russian. Luhansk was 58% Ukranian, 39% Russian


Quote>To which the Russian separatist leader admitted on video that "yes we use you as human shields, but it lets us win"

They won because Donbass being ethnically and culturally Russian for many decades.

What nonsense are you talking about? Did you not get the context of the statement. He is saying by using Donbas citizens as human shields made it harder for the Ukrainian army to fight back, thus it let them win. Has absolutely 0 to do with ethnicity or culturally


QuoteIn fact, Chechnya is much less Russian than Donbass. I was born there about 39 years ago, had relocated to Russia about 34 years ago, and I still have relatives living there. I've visited Donbass almost every year since, and could see what was happening here over years. ukraine was failed state for many years, and Donbass was her unloved child. ukraine as a state did almost nothing to economically, culturally and socially develop Donbass. I've seen it degrading for many years. If you live in Europe, I bet you couldn't even approximately understand how deep was Donbass dive from urbanized highly developed region with excellent infrastructure to degraded depressive place since ukraine gaining independence. Western-oriented ukraine leaders always knew who populated Donbass, and they both never had any dreams or misunderstandings about each other.

Ukraine was a failed state, many places, not just donbas saw their quality of life fall even compared to Belerus, let alone Poland which grew well economically

Part of the failure in Ukraine has been due to corruption, and a lot of that corruption was tied down to Russia. Ukraine wanted to break free of that and join the EU to become like Poland and Latvia. On top of that, by starting the process to join the EU would have forced Ukraine to comply to EU standards and laws which would have helped reduce corruption significantly

As far as Ukraine is really concerned, as long as Donbas doesn't want to join Ukraine, they would be fine with letting them go if they really wish (and not being threatened by Russia). But the problem there is 2 things

1. Russia doesn't care about Donbas, they only want 2 places, Crimea and Kyiv. Donbas is just a stepping stone to have an excuse to take Kyiv. It is the same method that Hitler used, claim that "ethnic Germans were being prosecuted", use that as an excuse to take a portion of the land, hold a referendum at gun point and integrate the land, then use it to invade the entire country

2. It would make all agreements worthless between Russia as Budapest already exist under which Russia promised to not to invade Ukraine and guarantee their borders. So it would be like acknowledging any future agreement between Russia can be easily broken by Russia at their convenience

Thus, any yielding just means delaying the war for tomorrow with Russia coming in later with stronger position as they would fortify their supply chains on the conquered land

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