NotebookCHECK - Notebook Forum

Ridiculously overpriced piece of hardware for that price tag.

Unacceptable keyboard quality, disappointing display contrast ratio, only one M.2-2280 storage slot (no RAID), ECC memory absent, limited thunderbolt 3 capability, and the list goes on...

And I'd expect at least quadro M2200 and an option for P3000 for a ~2 kg laptop. Even small laptops like Aorus X3 Plus v7 has managed to do so with little throttling.

These "reviews" are lot of fun to read!  :D :D :D

ANY Mac can get 88-90% and the hardcore Workstation gets only 85%.

Wooooow!!!

Quote from: Mike2017 on April 29, 2017, 12:21:42
These "reviews" are lot of fun to read!  :D :D :D

ANY Mac can get 88-90% and the hardcore Workstation gets only 85%.

Wooooow!!!

That is because the 15" Macbook Pro is superior to the Precisioin in almost every way.

Even with the new butterfly switches, keyboards are snappier and more tactile than Dell's. DAC, speakers, and general audio quality is better than all windows laptops combined. Overall build quality is still better when compared to any premium windows laptop of consumer class, including the XPS.

Trackpads are simply unparalled. Macbook's Wi-Fi is verging on a gigabit, whereas Intel's best 18265 or Killer AC cards used on high-end windows laptops cap out at 600mbps. Display is still the best we've seen on any laptop, with better contrast ratio, brightness, and DeltaE.

Thermals are top notch with little to no throttling. Concerning ports, it would've been nice to see a USB type-A but 4 thunderbolts are still ahead of any windows laptop. And finally, even with a smaller battery, OS optimization allows for far better runtimes.

Only downside for some people may be that no components are easily user-upgradable or user-serviceable.

The newest iteration of Macbooks certainly aren't as perfect as last gen's, but at least their price tag isn't unjustified unlike many mobile workstations'.

@Mike2017:

First off, thanks for taking the time to read our reviews.  It means a lot to us!

Secondly, if you read the entire review, it should (hopefully) be obvious that the problem with this machine is that we experienced both unexpected CPU multi-core throttling and encountered display deficiencies (versus what was originally quoted), and we consider both of these negatives to be significant as it applies to (to use your terminology) a "hardcore" mobile workstation.

Trust me, I carry no prejudice against Dell or any other manufacturer; in fact, I am typing this reply to you from a Dell XPS 13-9343 Ultrabook. Our reviews are almost entirely scored based on mathematical criteria, not based on individual whims or personal biases.  That's why we do it that way!  Hopefully in reading my articles you can tell that I try my very hardest to be as unbiased and open-minded as possible toward all companies' products.

Again, we appreciate you taking the time to drop by and leave a comment. Your readership is the reason for our continued growth!

-Steve

"That is because the 15" Macbook Pro is superior to the Precisioin in almost every way.

Display is still the best we've seen on any laptop, with better contrast ratio, brightness, and DeltaE."

1) Yeah a real pros display with really low DeltaE :)
http://www.staingate.org/static/img/gallery/4.jpg
http://www.staingate.org/static/img/gallery/3.jpg
In this way it is really superior!

2) I don't know about one company which uses MBP for heavy tasks, except for "heavy" photoeditint and "heavy" writing... Maybe some video, that's all.

"Trust me, I carry no prejudice against Dell or any other manufacturer; in fact, I am typing this reply to you from a Dell XPS 13-9343 Ultrabook."

Thanks for the reply.

It is not about DELL vs MBP. For example Lenovo has very high score "quite" often as well:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T570-Core-i7-4K-940MX-Laptop-Review.214712.0.html

Many people fail to understand that most of the time, they are paying for the support when they buy a workstation. While hardware does make a strong point, workstations have a long support cycle. XPS 15 will have a support life of 2 years, Precision 5510 is supported for 3 and more years, including support on the software side. Also it is the service. I own a Precision 5510, and I know that it has its own drawbacks like lack of storage expansions and thermal issues, but it is portable and to Dell's credit, the service is good. The screen broke and Dell changed it, next day in the morning. That is the support I'm paying for, and that is the support I get by default for 3 years.
As for the Macbook Pros, they might be great, but the keyboard feels unresponsive, and having a need to carry adapters or a dock for even most basic things is a pain. Also, I paid less than the top of line Macbook Pro (pre touchbar) even after accounting for support.

@Mike2017:

I don't know what you're talking about. As far as I know, Thinkpads and MBPs have been the golden industry standard for years, at least in the North America. And if the majority of the Arts & Marketing industry indeed prefers MBPs as you've mentioned, then I'd say that speaks a lot for what those machines are capable of.

@Sid:

You're right, good support is crucial. That's why Apple is as successful as it is today, because of their unrivalled global service. Particularly in Asia or S.America, it's extremely difficult to find support for almost anything except for Apple. Dell's support is better than most, but still behind Apple as one could readily observe from numbers and internet forums.

http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/tech-support-showdown

Having said much, a decent laptop shouldn't have to use "extended support" as an excuse for poor engineering. That is why businesses and informed users tend to opt for Thinkpads or MBPs, because they are more reliable than most. Despite having quite opposing views on user maintenance, it's hard to deny that both ODMs have less failure rates than any other sub-brands.

This 5520 is exclusively based on its consumer counterpart XPS 15-9560. Regarding the long history of numerous problems of the latter, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Dell keeps the same QC standard for their 5000 series workstations.

As for the controversial ports, the market is constantly coming up with accessories like HyperDrive and Satechi type-C, hubs that essentially plug directly into laptops to feel more like an extension to the machine than a nuisance.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hypershop/hyperdrivetm-compact-thunderbolt-3-usb-c-hub-for-m

@dthrp
"And if the majority of the Arts & Marketing industry indeed prefers MBPs as you've mentioned, then I'd say that speaks a lot for what those machines are capable of."

Exactly, photo and video, but nothing else. No engineering company uses MBP for heavy tasks - no automotive, no aerospace, no military, maybe except managers for writing their reports  :)


Well, to me this is not the "unrivalled global service":
www.staingate.org
I really doubt, that Apple will repare your Mac next business day ON SITE, FOR FREE first 36 months.
But, who knows, maybe you have a different experience.


As for laptopmag.com, read this:
www.laptopmag.com/articles/laptop-brand-ratings

So, Lenovo has probably most money for them, because it is nowhere near the best!


"This 5520 is exclusively based on its consumer counterpart XPS 15-9560."

Exactly and even the consumer XPS is better than MBP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxN0O8GO72o&list=PL2OzPwdKxTAzcdEIdZREKSv8TVD7P4Qez&index=7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtWMhnKU1cI&list=PL2OzPwdKxTAw8TnHfv-xHBE0y_b4T5fRI&index=39

So, sorry...I like the Mac design and OS X UI, but that's it.

Just a few quick points.  I don't want to take sides here but it's worth bringing these up:

1.  You might note that this particular Precision 5520 configuration we received actually was only covered by a 1-year warranty.  I'm not sure when this trend began as I am used to Latitude 7000 series/Precision/OptiPlex machines always shipping with a 3-year warranty.  But that does play into the pricing argument, as in this case, you receive very little beyond what you would get with a consumer-grade XPS 15.

2.  The XPS 15 has long been a very well-reviewed laptop here at Notebookcheck.  It remains one of the highest-rated machines we have evaluated (most recent entry with an 89% from Allen Ngo) and that is because it is a terrific notebook.  I can't speak for its reliability as, of course, that isn't something we are able to thoroughly evaluate here at NBC, but rest assured that had we not encountered the issues we mentioned with the Precision 5520 here, it, too, would have received a comparable score.  There are some who may not be bothered by these drawbacks, and if that is the case, this is an excellent hybrid workstation with very good (stable) GPU performance that might fit their profile quite perfectly.  On the other hand, if Dell can provide a solution to the CPU drawbacks (and address the display discrepancies) or correct it in future models, it's likely it could be considered the mid-range workstation to beat.

So this isn't anything close to an across-the-board rejection of the concept.  85% is still a good score, and depending on the user, they may not even necessarily mind the drawbacks.  Without them, it stands to reason that we'd likely be looking at another 89/90% final score however (though workstation and consumer-grade entertainment machines are weighted slightly differently).

-Steve

@Mike2017

"No engineering company uses MBP for heavy tasks"

Who said anything about MBPs being used for engineering or as you'd put it, "heavy tasks"? I was simply pointing out that they are the "go-to choice" for most people in a particular demographic because of its unique advantages. And because of these advantages that aren't present on competing laptops, the MBPs are pretty much an irreplaceable standard. Besides, my post was solely comparing this review's subject, the Dell Precision 5520, to the 2017 15" MBP.

"www.staingate.org"

The website that you sourced is basically talking about how a group of customers, affected with bad QC, pressured Apple into admitting it and performing services free of charge. So if anything, I'd say it puts them in a better light. How many other consumer laptop ODMs do you know that rendered a similar gesture given the circumstance?

"I really doubt, that Apple will repare your Mac next business day ON SITE, FOR FREE first 36 months."

Well I wouldn't know. But as I've pointed out before, at least Apple gives you the access to their channel of services all over the world, even in fairly remote regions. After all, Applecare is an international support and warranty, which not a lot of other ODMs like Dell fully cover. Also, from what I can gather from sources such as reddit or notebookreview forum, on-site repair from business laptop brands seems to be a definite hit or miss.

"As for laptopmag.com, read this:
www.laptopmag.com/articles/laptop-brand-ratings"

That's the same article I sourced for you by the way. And if you actually read the article, you'd notice Apple has the highest score of "19/20" for support and "5/5" for warranty, whereas Lenovo only scores "17/20" for support and "4/5" for warranty.

"So, Lenovo has probably most money for them, because it is nowhere near the best!"

What are you trying to say?

"even the consumer XPS is better than MBP"

I disagree, but to each their own.

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxN0O8GO72o&list=PL2OzPwdKxTAzcdEIdZREKSv8TVD7P4Qez&index=7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtWMhnKU1cI&list=PL2OzPwdKxTAw8TnHfv-xHBE0y_b4T5fRI&index=39"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the video compares performance benchmarks for a lower specced MBP model and an XPS. It doesn't explain how one's better than the other in the slightest.

"So, sorry...I like the Mac design and OS X UI, but that's it."

Again... I beg to differ entirely.

To clarify my view, Macbooks' prices aren't unwarranted as they clearly still have not one, but many distinct selling points. But not the Precision 5520.

@Steve Schardein:

Thank you very much Steve, for your thorough review and input, really appreciated  :)

@dthrp:
I agree, Apple support is one of the best, it's just the price they ask for the support. While buying an already expensive notebook, the additional price for support kind of hurts.
There is another thing, the Thunderbolt 3 conundrum with Dell laptops. I have a partially disabled Thunderbolt 3 connection on my "workstation"...so that hurt a lot, since I'm using eternal GPU.
@Steve Schardein:
This is surprising, I thought that Dell by default had 3 year support. Maybe it depends on the country ? But if not, then I guess Dell is going on a negative trend here.
---

As for alternatives, I don't understand the thing with HP and their ZBooks. The price they ask for their PCs make Macbook Pros look almost cheap - also the support is not good. 

When I was going to buy a PC (December 2015), the only options available to me in my country were Dell and Apple. And I decided to go with Dell because Apple was still selling their "Old" Macbook Pros. Thinking about it now, I would have gone with something like Thinkpad X1 or so. Ultimately I cannot use the CPU to full potential(this would be same for Apple - No matter how complex the cooling systems get, more thin = more hot) and I use eGPUs anyway. 

@Sid:

True, the MBP is extremely expensive and so are HP Zbooks and Dell Precisions. That's why I'd recommend Lenovo Thinkpad P series, as they are significantly price-friendlier than other companies. Also I wonder if you've also considered just importing. I'm guessing where you live, even locally available brands are overpriced compared to their US website equivalents.

If so, you could use "package forwarding services" or "freight forwarding" to shop through US websites, then transport internationally. Or if you don't want hassle, some services even shop for you. Of course, returning defective units or getting any kind of support or warranty is difficult to near impossible in some cases, but considering the price, it's enticing. Manufacturers won't like this as it screws up their "regional pricing" scheme, but it's completely safe and legal to use.

2 years ago while I was briefly in Indonesia, I purchased a Thinkpad P50 workstation laptop via Lenovo US. If I recall correctly, my unit had [Xeon E3-1505M v5, M2000M, FHD, 8GB, 500GB HDD]. If I'd bought it from a local retailer, I would've dropped close to $3000. But with a US holiday discount, instead I paid $1150 including shipping+taxes. Then I upgraded the memory to 32GB and storage to 256GB NVMe, which cost me additional $250. Hence at the end, I only spent $1400 on a great laptop and saved $1600 in the process. Best part is, I ended up spending that extra dough on a GTX1080 eGPU setup, and it works perfectly (PCIe x4 TB3).

I hope this may offer some help in the future.

"though workstation and consumer-grade entertainment machines are weighted slightly differently"

OK, but not only in my opinion, that's not the best way, because you get not the most accurate score and you can't compare consumer laptop to a workstation based on score.

Another thing is and again not only my opinion, consistency. For example my almost 5 years old Inspiron had a score 84%, XPS 15 9550/9560 has 88/89%, although XPS is not only a slightly better.

1) "I was simply pointing out that they are the "go-to choice" for most people in a particular demographic because of its unique advantages. And because of these advantages that aren't present on competing laptops, the MBPs are pretty much an irreplaceable standard."

Which advantages, except for Apple hype (sorry marketing), overpriced HW and lack of ports, exactly?
Moreover this:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-Late-2016-2-9-GHz-460-Notebook-Review.195702.0.html

is really better "for most people" than this???
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-XPS-15-9560-i7-7700HQ-UHD-Laptop-Review.200648.0.html

More than 4000E vs 2100E? And the cheaper is even more powerful (even if you disagree, but more people have proved it).

Sorry, there were times to go Mac (10-15 years ago). Even 5 years ago the 17" MBP was OK, but today there is no PRO MacBook Pro, just an overpriced great looking HW for rich idiots!

And one more thing. Jobs was a snobby arrogant a..hole, BUT thanks to his leadership MBs where the best laptops with innovations. Today?
The most innovative thing is a Touch Bar, although the competitors have FHD and even 4K "touch bar" - the whole display :)))


2) "Also, from what I can gather from sources such as reddit or notebookreview forum, on-site repair from business laptop brands seems to be a definite hit or miss."

Maybe in your country, but there was no problem to repair a 17" Precision in our company.


3) "Besides, my post was solely comparing this review's subject, the Dell Precision 5520, to the 2017 15" MBP."

OK, my first reaction was because of this and there is more than one Precision:
""That is because the 15" Macbook Pro is superior to the Precisioin in almost every way."

@Mike2017:

"Which advantages, except for Apple hype (sorry marketing), overpriced HW and lack of ports, exactly?"

...Ones I've already mentioned in my reply to you below. And it's not a hype if they have reasonable selling points, is it?

"is really better "for most people" than this???
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-XPS-15-9560-i7-7700HQ-UHD-Laptop-Review.200648.0.html"

Of course not, most people don't need either. What I claimed is, it's definitely superior for "most people" "in a particular demographic" or a specific industry. You might perhaps consider the XPS 15 a likely alternative, but some folks have higher standards, hence they'll find it difficult to settle for anything much less than what the MBP has to offer.

"More than 4000E vs 2100E?"

European price tags are meaningless (no offense). As I was replying to @Sid earlier, people are free to import whatever product they want from a better market. Accordingly, the 2017 15" MBP is around $800 more than the XPS 15-9560. But you know what they say, "You get what you pay for".

"And the cheaper is even more powerful (even if you disagree, but more people have proved it)."

I agree. In fact, I never said the XPS wasn't more powerful. And I don't understand the whole "proving" part either. It's not like the ODMs are keeping their specs undisclosed or anything.

"Sorry, there were times to go Mac (10-15 years ago). Even 5 years ago the 17" MBP was OK, but today there is no PRO MacBook Pro, just an overpriced great looking HW for rich idiots!"

Well, I think you've taken the name "Pro" too seriously! I mean it's probably an inside joke that Apple marketing guys put their head together and came up with, as in "Pro" for "Proprietary"!
But really, they're not overpriced, just awfully expensive, that's all. And by the way, "rich idiots" is a literary oxymoron. In reality, people become rich, only because they are smarter then the rest.

"And one more thing. Jobs was a snobby arrogant a..hole, BUT thanks to his leadership MBs where the best laptops with innovations."

You seem to know him pretty well. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you were his best friend like War Machine is to Iron Man ;)

"Today? The most innovative thing is a Touch Bar, "

Incorrect. Apple is good at discovering and perfecting a certain tech, not innovating it. Like many other things, the Touch Bar was previously used in Lenovo Thinkpads few years ago. And well precedented multiple times in the past for all we know.

"although the competitors have FHD and even 4K "touch bar" - the whole display :)))"

Call me stubborn, but I'm not a fan of touchscreens. From my experience, mixing up an input and an output is only for people who don't really understand how to maximize the benefits of using either. My workflow is simply faster on a traditional setup. Of course, some argue otherwise and I get why. Certain artists and designers may be convinced. But overall, touchscreen on Windows 10 still feels like an amateurish niche to me. If it was something like "Perfect Air Gesture Control", it would be a different story, but sadly, that dream's far from reality.

"Maybe in your country, but there was no problem to repair a 17" Precision in our company."

Maybe in your company, but then again, your company isn't an accurate representation of the global population, including locals from many countries that I've personally traveled in.

"OK, my first reaction was because of this and there is more than one Precision: "That is because the 15" Macbook Pro is superior to the Precision in almost every way." "

My bad. I only assumed I didn't need to add the model number because I felt it was a common courtesy to NBC to keep the discussion primarily on their review unit. But say if I did mean the entire current Precision line of laptops. Don't you think it's a little unreasonable to compare all of them vs one other laptop, considering it's already tough comparing two very similar yet different products?


Oh, and excuse me for constantly repeating myself, by the way. But you know, you've made it a little hard not to ;P

This table tennis is going to be quite time consuming, so only 3 tings:

"European price tags are meaningless (no offense)."

OK


"And by the way, "rich idiots" is a literary oxymoron. In reality, people become rich, only because they are smarter then the rest."

Not at all, otherwise for example G. W. Bush has to be a tremendously smart guy :))


"You seem to know him pretty well. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you were his best friend like War Machine is to Iron Man ;)"

Well, well, according to previous, you might be not the poorest person ;)

@Mike2017:

Fair enough. After all, who am I to judge anyone? ;)

@dthrp

Great reply, thanks  :)

There obviously were thermal throttling issues, but have you attempted debugging with Intel XTU or such? Was the CPU throttling thermal or power limit?
The related XPS 15 9560 i7-7700hq is able to do long-term Prime95 below 80 degC, though poor paste jobs seem to be quite common (too much gap, observed by too much paste remaing on the chip or heatsink upon heatsink removal, or uneven gap width due to misalignment).   

Work gave me this laptop, and I can definitively say the keyboard is absolutely horrendous.  It regularly registers double types of keystrokes.  I am not alone in this either.  Just do a google search for dell double type.  The problem has been prevalent in all their machines for quite some time, and they continue to use the same design.  There's a lot to be said for keyboard preference, but when the keyboard isn't even registering what you are typing that's a pretty bad show-stopper.

As a side note I actually prefer the shallow travel 2016 mbpro keyboard over this, and prefer the keyboard on my lenovo x1 carbon over the mbpro.

Hi,

Did you ever get any feedback from Dell as I'm interested in this laptop and I'd like to know if they've done anything to improve this throttling.

many thanks.
Lewis.

Being that it should have the exact same screen as the XPS 15, u think there's a chance that your review unit was a bit of a lemon?

ce laptop c'est de la bombe

Hi.
Just came here to say that I have this laptop in it's i7 7820HQ Version.
This thing shuts down from overheating.
It's impossible to work with under stress.
Don't bother spending money if you're looking for a work horse or a gaming unit. I would recommend small factor PC build on a miTX  so much more than this.

The keyboard on this thing is pretty bad, so if you need to type a lot of emails or documents, you're going to want something else. Certain letters don't register, so typing requires constant editing. 

Pretty decent besides that and one trip back to Dell due to overheating.