NotebookCHECK - Notebook Forum

psref:

QuoteUSB-C supports up to 4K@60Hz (4 displays output),  5K@60Hz (3 displays output) or 5K@120Hz (up to 2 displays output)

Memory controller of Zen3+ is bad or again bad tuning in bios. Ram too slow vs Alder Lake.

QuoteKontrast: 2148:1

This is not possible without a glossy screen (and for glossy it then at the limit of the possible). For matte, this is a clear fake(mistake) in the data.

Well, the panel itself is very slow in response. Even surfing on it will be unpleasant at the time of scrolling.

It's good that the exhaust is on the right - you can warm your hands in winter, since 52C, if the exhaust was on the screen, could potentially ruin the panel.

Again, funny 16GB of soldered memory (and that in business class) for almost $1900? Just monstrous greed from Lenovo for 2022. Why not 32-64GB? A 32GB module costs $100-150...

The funny thing is that there is a 4k screen as an option. And where it is needed most in the 16" model - it is not there. How to understand this, Lenovo?

We should compare this version with the same version on Intel with i7 1280p...

Ridiculous price.

I own this PC.
I like it but the bluetooth does not work (it disappears suddently quite often... you have to reboot)
This impacts this device and some other ones using the AMD CPU (X13, T14s)
I also had a wake up issue and a flickering issue (just once).
I hope all that will be fixed.

> I own this PC.

This is my computer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

My computer is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.

My computer, without me, is useless. Without my computer, I am useless. I must use my computer true.

My computer is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its inputs and its outputs. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my eyes and my heart against damage. I will keep my computer clean and ready. We will become part of each other.

Quote from: NikoB on September 26, 2022, 18:12:16psref:

QuoteUSB-C supports up to 4K@60Hz (4 displays output),  5K@60Hz (3 displays output) or 5K@120Hz (up to 2 displays output)

Memory controller of Zen3+ is bad or again bad tuning in bios. Ram too slow vs Alder Lake.

QuoteKontrast: 2148:1

This is not possible without a glossy screen (and for glossy it then at the limit of the possible). For matte, this is a clear fake(mistake) in the data.

Well, the panel itself is very slow in response. Even surfing on it will be unpleasant at the time of scrolling.

It's good that the exhaust is on the right - you can warm your hands in winter, since 52C, if the exhaust was on the screen, could potentially ruin the panel.

Again, funny 16GB of soldered memory (and that in business class) for almost $1900? Just monstrous greed from Lenovo for 2022. Why not 32-64GB? A 32GB module costs $100-150...

The funny thing is that there is a 4k screen as an option. And where it is needed most in the 16" model - it is not there. How to understand this, Lenovo?

We should compare this version with the same version on Intel with i7 1280p...

Theoretical bandwidth is correct: (3200MHz effective x 64bits x 2 channels)/8bits (per byte) = 51.2GB/s. So 48.6GB/s is about 95% of the maximum memory bandwidth.

Quote from: Pascal76 on September 26, 2022, 20:32:12I own this PC.
I like it but the bluetooth does not work (it disappears suddently quite often... you have to reboot)
This impacts this device and some other ones using the AMD CPU (X13, T14s)
I also had a wake up issue and a flickering issue (just once).
I hope all that will be fixed.

Same with my X13 Gen3 AMD. Bluetooth dies frequently. already sent to repair center and they said it needs a motherboard replacement. WFT for a new laptop. such a bad experience

Quote from: Pascal76 on September 26, 2022, 20:32:12I own this PC.
I like it but the bluetooth does not work (it disappears suddently quite often... you have to reboot)
This impacts this device and some other ones using the AMD CPU (X13, T14s)
I also had a wake up issue and a flickering issue (just once).
I hope all that will be fixed.

Me 2 on my T14 Gen 3 AMD version.
What make it worse is the the Bluetooth/Wifi module is soldered. I can't replace it with a better one!
Posted on reddit and Lenovo Community. No solution! I am going to return it.

Quote from: Daniliocs on September 26, 2022, 21:48:33Theoretical bandwidth is correct: (3200MHz effective x 64bits x 2 channels)/8bits (per byte) = 51.2GB/s. So 48.6GB/s is about 95% of the maximum memory bandwidth.

You write nonsense. In the description of the LPDDR5 6400.

hey guys, saw the issues as well when it comes to the bluetooth. this can be fixed by changing the settings in the control panel for the bluetooth. "enable pc to change settings of this device" -- uncheck this statement.

hope this helps!

Probably the last Lenovo I'll purchase.  Moving from a T490 which was OK, but had build quality issues, the new T14 G3 AMD runs hot (despite buying the entry level Ryzen 5 CPU), is noisy with a really annoying fan whine and has an objectively a far worse keyboard (smaller keys, less travel and deck flex around the track point).  The only positives I can see are the better aspect ratio screen (which still suffers from significant light bleed on the left edge) and trackpad.

Overall Lenovo have been too focused on keeping their price point fixed in face of inflation and the resulting compromises mean the T series is no longer a quality product.

Quote from: Daniliocs on September 26, 2022, 21:48:33Theoretical bandwidth is correct: (3200MHz effective x 64bits x 2 channels)/8bits (per byte) = 51.2GB/s. So 48.6GB/s is about 95% of the maximum memory bandwidth.

I don't think this is correct. from this formula (number of memory channels) x (trasfer width) x (data rate)
it should be 4 x 32bit x 6400mt/s = 819.200 gbps = 102.4 GBps
which is the correct number for lpddr5-6400 quad channel (128 bit)

I have this exact spec laptop, but idle for me is ~6w, never below 4ish for some reason. Tried reinstalling drivers etc. Not too sure what the issue is. Waiting for a replacement and hopefully the issue is resolved.

Quote from: Pascal76 on September 26, 2022, 20:32:12I own this PC.
I like it but the bluetooth does not work (it disappears suddently quite often... you have to reboot)
This impacts this device and some other ones using the AMD CPU (X13, T14s)
I also had a wake up issue and a flickering issue (just once).
I hope all that will be fixed.

What does your laptop idle at? Mines idling at 6-8w with nothing running and im not too sure why. With chrome it takes me up to 10w which is absolutely killing my battery life.

Is there any model remaining with 1.8 mm key travel?

This review of the Thinkpad T14s G3 AMD Ryzon Pro 7 laptop gives it a rating of 89, while the review of the almost indistinguishable model on 01/19/2023 gives it a rating of 91.  May I know if this difference is just a difference of opinion between two writers, or if there is a substantial difference between the two reviewed models?

One is the T14 G3, the other is the T14s G3, two completely different models

Quote from: Benjamin Herzig on January 26, 2023, 21:54:42One is the T14 G3, the other is the T14s G3, two completely different models

This is what I see, comparing the 14 with the 14s, as reviewed.  Same processor.  Same graphics adapter.  Same display.  Same mainboard.  Same webcam.  Same battery. Same case. 

• Same RAM size, but T14s has slightly different unit (quad core v dual core).
• Different connections (1 USB 4 v no USB4)
• 3DMark Performance – T14s slightly lower
• T14s has better temperature performance, particularly at bottom of case.
• Slightly lighter.

Same price on your site, very different price on UK Lenovo site (£952 v £1,129)

For me the difference in heat output is the most important (if correctly measured). I hate hot machines. Otherwise it seems quite a large price difference for rather similar specifications.   

You made a few mistakes in your comparison:

- T14s and T14 do not have the same mainboard. T14s shares its mainboard with the ThinkPad X13, while the T14 has the same as the T16

- They do not have the same battery. T14s has a 57 Wh battery, T14 has a 52.5 Wh battery (optional 39.3 Wh battery on some models of the T14 G3)

T14 G3 also has a user replaceable (so called top-load) keyboard, while the T14s G3 has a non-user replacable bottom-load keyboard that is embedded in the palmrest. Unlike the T14s G3, the T14 G3 has an Ethernet port.

On the other hand, as you noticed, the T14s G3 is more lightweight. This is due to the materials used, the base unit of the T14s G3 is completely made out of metal (Magnesium and Aluminium) while the screen cover is made out of Carbon fiber plastic. The T14 G3 uses cheaper and heavier glass fiber plastic for the base cover and screen cover. So not only is the weight better of the T14s, but also the build quality. We also rated the input devices of the T14s to be slightly better.

A big difference you did not mention is the fan noise, as the T14s G3 AMD we reviewed stayed significantly more quiet than the T14 G3.

The non-user replaceable keyboard in the T14s seems bad news.  Keyboards do, eventually, stop working properly.

What do you think for office and home purposes, which is better to choose T14 AMD Ryzen 7 PRO - 6850U or T14s Intel Core i7-1260P

Official datasheets for AMD/Intel series:

WUXGA Low Power (non-touch), AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 6850U, 16GB LPDDR5, Win 11, 57Wh battery, best power efficiency power mode, (max battery life):
MobileMark 2018: up to 19.52 hr with 707 performance score @200nits
MobileMark 25: up to 18.18 hr with 564 performance score @250nits
JEITA 2.0: up to 22.98 hr @150nits
Local video playback: up to 22.1 hr @150nits

-------------
Best by time Intel configuration choose by Lenovo:
Intel i5-1250P, 16GB LPDDR5, Win 11, 57Wh battery, best power efficiency power mode
MobileMark 2018: up to 13.6 hr with 978 performance score @200nits
MobileMark 25: up to 10.8 hr with 669 performance score @250nits
JEITA 2.0: up to 24.0 hr @150nits
Local video playback: up to 18.1 hr @150nits

But when playing 4k@60fps on YouTube, AMD loses to Intel by battery time, because load per  igpu+cpu is higher in VP9/AV1 mode...

To NikoB

You have presented the datasheet information wrong. According to Lenovo datasheet, Intel version

Intel i5-1250P, 16GB LPDDR5, Win 11, 57Wh battery, best power efficiency power mode
MobileMark 2018: up to 10.0 hr with 1066 performance score @200nits
MobileMark 25: up to 7.2 hr with 712 performance score @250nits
JEITA 2.0: up to 15.3 hr @150nits
Local video playback: up to 14.8 hr @150nits

I wrote data by mistake for T14s series.

T14 best variant AMD (WUXGA Low Power (non-touch), AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 6850U, 16GB LPDDR5, Win 11, 52.5Wh battery):
Configuration 1 (max battery life)
MobileMark 2018: up to 14.6 hr with 595 performance score @200nits
MobileMark 25: up to 13.5 hr with 513 performance score @250nits
JEITA 2.0: up to 21.1 hr @150nits
Local video playback: up to 18.1 hr @150nits
----------------
T14 best variant Intel ((max battery life): WUXGA (non-touch), Intel i5-1240P, 8GB soldered, Win 11, 52.5Wh battery, best power efficiency power mode Alternate configuration
Configuration 1 (max battery life)):
MobileMark 2018: up to 10.0 hr with 791 performance score @200nits
MobileMark 25: up to 8.2 hr with 601 performance score @250nits
JEITA 2.0: up to 19.9 hr @150nits
Local video playback: up to 15.1 hr @150nits



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I emphasize once again that the VP9 hardware decoder in the 4k@60fps mode at Intel loads the processor and the integrated video chip much less than at AMD. And in this (the highest quality video viewing mode on the fhd screen), AMD may well lose in terms of autonomy. Very significant. Lenovo tests were done in poor fhd resolution, in which almost none of the competent owners watch videos on YouTube for a long time, on fhd screens, if the video source is 1440p and higher.

Google itself has officially confirmed that the quality of video in fhd resolution is much worse than in 4k on the same fhd screen. This is a long-known technical trick to force the YouTube service to transfer more data per pixel to you than the default fhd mode for illiterate ordinary people, choosing a source in 1440p+ mode (4k is better) where it is.

Therefore, NB tests for viewing in poor fhd resolution have been meaningless for many years. Only tests at 4k@30-60fps make sense for real battery time with good streaming video quality.

Soldered RAM on a Thinkpad T is outrageous. No words.

Quote from: Adorf P. on July 03, 2023, 01:38:57Soldered RAM on a Thinkpad T is outrageous. No words.

How exactly would you upgrade an LPDDR5 RAM? How would you use it all if not soldered? LPDDR comes only in BGA packages rather than DIMMs. In fact LPDDR has never had DIMMs, not in 1 not in 5 not in anything in-between.

RAM is upgradeable on T14 Intel just fine. But it's DDR5 4800 instead of LPDDR5 6400. If they used DDR5 4800 for AMD then performance would be solidly weaker than Intel (Ryzens are hungry for fastest RAM possible), thermals would be slightly higher than currently and battery life would be about the same as with Intel. Then people wouldn't be happy again so whatever they (Lenovo) do it's not good, someone will always be unhappy.

With LPDDR5 6400 you get about 15% better performance over DDR5 4800 just on the 680M iGPU alone. Check the video: youtu.be/F7VV_PxuLws

As usual, the troll misses the main point - the minimum configuration for today for a working laptop is 32GB. People who are really engaged in work are increasingly putting 64GB right away.

Therefore, models with 16 GB are cheap trash, and for 32 GB, manufacturers brazenly ask for 2-4 times more than if you buy the same amount in retail, and with a 5-10 year warranty, and as part of a laptop, the guarantee will be a maximum of 1-3 of the year. As with SSD - a separately purchased SSD comes with a 5-year warranty, and most often 1-2 years as part of laptops. Thus, it cannot even cost as much as it costs in retail with a 5-year warranty. It should be 25-35% cheaper as part of a laptop with a much lower warranty, because this dramatically increases the risk of the buyer beyond the laptop warranty of 1-2 years, most often. As well as working memory. But it is on large (i.e. really adequate) volumes of installed RAM and capacious ssd options that impudent manufacturers (and retailers) make the main margin, because the majority of the world's population is not able to upgrade on their own, and besides, they will have to throw out factory components, t .To. it is much more difficult to sell small sizes of RAM sticks and SSDs at a flea market, and besides, they cannot be sold if something happens to the laptop within the warranty period - they will have to be replaced before being sent under warranty. And in models with soldered memory, the buyer has no chance at all to increase the amount of RAM and sometimes even SSD (as in Apple, for example), i.e. in this case, the buyer is a priori forced to take the older model, but it is always inadequately expensive compared to the younger one, if we compare the same difference in the price of RAM or SSD in retail (especially given the increased warranties in retail, compared to the warranty on components laptops).

This situation leads to the fact that on many models, buyers automatically put a red fat cross.