Even before rumours started circulating about Apple creating its own electric vehicle, some of Apple's business practices shared a lot in common with electric vehicle manufacturers. While not uncommon in the tech industry, they set a worrying precedence for both the way business is conducted and products purchased in the future.https://www.notebookcheck.net/3-unfortunate-similarities-between-Apple-and-the-electric-car-industry.769314.0.html
Well said and 100% spot on. I will not be buying an EV anytime soon, certainly not before solid state batteries are the norm and there is ZERO cost premium for an EV. In fact EV's should be cheaper to make. I will never ever pay for a feature via subscription either. I will drive an ICE/PHEV for a very long time. Doubt solid state batteries will be widespread for another decade.
I love my iPhone and my Mac, but honestly I wouldn't risk driving their car around only to find out a software update canceled preemptive braking because Apple didn't like the sound tires make when harsh braking is necessary to prevent an accident.
They should stick to lifestyle stuff like their Vision Pro headset for rich folks to look at pictures while lounging about in their mansion.
Apple promised at least 10h battery life for my iPad Mini 4 but failed: the actual battery life was 11:50. From Apple's POV, this was too good. Therefore, Apple issued an OS update to restrict battery life to 10h from the next day on.
Initially, the OS of the iPad allowed viewing battery life since the last charging. From Apple's POV, this was too good. Therefore, Apple removed this feature so that one has to manually stop usage times, manually protocol them and manually calculate the battery life since the last charging.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 18, 2023, 07:26:26Apple promised at least 10h battery life for my iPad Mini 4 but failed: the actual battery life was 11:50. From Apple's POV, this was too good. Therefore, Apple issued an OS update to restrict battery life to 10h from the next day on.
Initially, the OS of the iPad allowed viewing battery life since the last charging. From Apple's POV, this was too good. Therefore, Apple removed this feature so that one has to manually stop usage times, manually protocol them and manually calculate the battery life since the last charging.
Conspiracy theory
Otherwise (if it is not intentional conspiracy), letting an unintentional OS bug reduce the battery duration by 15.5% and then not fixing it for 8 years would be Apple's utmost incompetence. Either possibility is terrible.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 18, 2023, 15:01:11Otherwise (if it is not intentional conspiracy), letting an unintentional OS bug reduce the battery duration by 15.5% and then not fixing it for 8 years would be Apple's utmost incompetence. Either possibility is terrible.
Measurements can't be reliable without a standardized controllable test and big dataset. You can't see what iPad is actually doing in background and/or in sleep, e.g. it could be indexing your images in sleep or downloading something after update, or auto-brightness kept screen one notch brighter, or Wifi signal was one notch weaker, etc.
During the first ca. three months of my iPad usage indoors during winter typically at brightness suitable indoors, I charged typically every two days after having used the iPad for 11:50, which I checked every time in the battey control view, where the usage time since last charge was stated, watching the battery running out of juice. Every time, it was very close to 11:50.
(On a few exceptional days, I tested permanent maximum brightness and got 5:30.)
After the infamous minor iOS update, I did the same but now it was close to 10:00 every time. I continued to use the iPad typically only recharging after the battery running out of juice. I continued to watch the battery control view regularly until roughly two (?) years later the view was crippled.
Therefore, I do have sufficient, regular and accurate information on the battery life of my iPad. Besides, during the first ca. 2 1/2 years, the battery duration did not noticably decrease hardwarewise; this only came after 3 years and more from 3 1/2 years on.
One might speculate on what iOS might have done to create the 15.5% lower battery duration after that infamous minor iOS update but what matters is my evidence of aforementioned careful battery status observation with the utmost clear sudden drop from before to after that minor iOS update.
It also fits into the pattern of similar actions of paternalism by Apple, and the timimg is after all the relevant reviews on the Mini 4 were published. If neither purely malicious intent (allegedly forcing people to buy new devices more often) nor a pure bug (or several bugs) without fixing, a third theory is Apple-paternalism of using roughly 80% charge for a longer battery lifetime without ever admitting doing so and without ever giving the user a choice. I would have preferred continued 100% use per charge and expected a shorter battery lifetime.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 18, 2023, 18:30:52Therefore, I do have sufficient, regular and accurate information
By no means it's accurate because you haven't used iPad exactly the same way every day. Any of the apps you use also could be the culprit. Or some settings change you've made and forgot.
LOL. It is Safari almost all the time for browsing or web video streaming, 2% a TV program guide. 1% simple text editing. I also check which apps are open; nothing unexpected. I avoid using more apps because a) 16GB storage is small and b) the restrictive, limited i(Pad)OS file management prevents eveything else I might want to do on a computer and was even much worse during the first years of this iPad. So if you want to blame an app and bugs, that would be Safari and the culprit be Apple.
Settings I always do carefully. Most settings have been the hard work of deactivating each individual option (because Apple fails to offer Deactivate All) as early as possible and then never touch these settings again, unless an iOS update creates a new option, which I immediately deactivate. I do not use any notifications (other than those forced upon me by Apple), widgets or whatever they are called in iPadOS, nor lock screen widgets (other than Apple's forced iCloud terms requests).
Bluetooth deactivated. Sleep mode.
So my iPad usage is about as simplistic as Apple allows me.
The only exceptions every few weeks are file transfer to / from a PC for a few minutes and i(Pad)OS updates.
My usage before / after the mentioned update was the same.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 18, 2023, 20:29:35It is Safari almost all the time for browsing or web video streaming
Different websites have dramatically different power consumption. Auto-screen brightness, differences in Wifi signal strength, etc.. Many minor things can hugely affect battery life in "home testing" so i never trust these claims.
You need to have a fixed testing routine or you need to test side by side, which is not the case here of course.
Whatever websites I visited, it was 11:50 before and 10:00 after that iOS update. Needless to say, the same or same kinds of webpages. E.g., NBC or ARD.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 18, 2023, 21:15:50Whatever websites I visited, it was 11:50 before
It's literally not possible.
Sure, sure, some variation from 11:40 to 12:00, most of the time 11:48 to 11:52. Such consistency occurs if one visits simple webpages and avoids FaceTime replacements.
In later years (after the crippling of the battery status view), I occasionally used FaceTime and noticed that it consumes the battery fast so I understand your doubts. FaceTime-like functionality in a webbrowser might be easily bad, I can imagine.
Not so in plain simple webbrowsing, where I never use camera or microphone. For social media, I use text.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 18, 2023, 22:13:53Sure, sure, some variation from 11:40 to 12:00, most of the time 11:48 to 11:52.
Still not possible
Face it - other endusers can have computer experiences outside your expectation. Your too restrictive expectation
does not alter the experience I did make, nor alter any experience anybody else made.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 19, 2023, 11:53:50Face it - other endusers can have computer experiences outside your expectation.
There's nothing to face, you are simply making all this up either intentionally or unintentionally. Come on, you were even doing it on auto-brightness. You can't make device last the same time on battery with different daily routine. Otherwise we'd all test devices using RobertJasiek "do-whatever-you-want" routine and didn't invent all those ~100% repeatable battery life tests.
You simply have a solution (Apple conspiracy) and are trying to adjust problem to it. There are a million other explanations. You need a standardized test routine and, if possible, real wattage consumption values from socket.
I'm going to stop this discussion because it's going nowhere.
Quote from: A on November 19, 2023, 14:23:34you are simply making all this up
Apple apologist: when running out of arguments, attack the Apple critic by personal insult or questioning credibility. Do they ever realise that such discussion behaviour itself hurts Apple's reputation?
Apple's reputation: several years before buying the iPad, Apple's reputation was as bad among Apple abstainers as then I have found justified by my experience with the iPad.
(In case somebody forgot why I bought an iPad nevertheless: the alternatives without the combination 4:3, limited reflectance, less than extremely bad updates supply, and not too bad battery duration would have created an even worse experience.)
Quoteyou were even doing it on auto-brightness.
On no device I ever use auto-brightness (possibly after the first few seconds before deactivating it) because manufacturers never predict my preferred brightness. Auto-brightness tends to be too bright and frequently annoys by unwanted changes.
QuoteYou can't make device last the same time on battery with different daily routine.
The funny thing is: the Apple apologist doubts even a good aspect of a device - that battery duration can be very consistent.
This aspect also surprised me. I had considered such as a principle possibility but was surprised to actually experience it.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 19, 2023, 15:07:51Apple apologist: when running out of arguments, attack the Apple critic by personal insult or questioning credibility. Do they ever realise that such discussion behaviour itself hurts Apple's reputation?
There is nothing to run out of arguments on. Initially you've claimed your day-to-day usage gave exactly the same battery life. Then you yourself realized it's kinda too much sus and gave it ~20 min threshold. It's just bs for the reasons stated above.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 19, 2023, 15:07:51On no device I ever use auto-brightness
Yeah, it's the third or fourth time you adjust your "day-to-day usage". If it was the case you'd mention it first thing, because display is 30-50% of battery consumption. Then you will tell you turn it off instead sleeping (because iPads do some work while sleeping and can use battery). Then you will tell you are always at the same exactly distance to your wifi hotspot etc etc.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 19, 2023, 15:07:51The funny thing is: the Apple apologist doubts even a good aspect of a device - that battery duration can be very consistent.
Maybe it's because 'apple apologists' exist only in your head. I call bs when I see bs.
Quote from: A on November 22, 2023, 09:39:45Initially you've claimed your day-to-day usage gave exactly the same battery life. Then you yourself realized it's kinda too much sus and gave it ~20 min threshold.[...]
No.
Rather, initially I simplified discussion without going into details. Only when pushed to provide details, I also gave information on variance.
Providing details has not changed the essence of the report (not: "a claim") on my made experience, but has changed the degree of details of the report.
Instead of acknowledging my sharing of my memorised data in yet greater detail, you repeat questioning my, a discussant's, credibility so further degrade Apple's reputation that Apple brings too many defenders of its products to disrespect other discussants as people.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 10:27:50Rather, initially I simplified discussion without going into details. Only when pushed to provide details, I also gave information on variance.
Auto-brightness was mentioned like in my first message and you've only changed your story just now with unrealistic "i turn it off". Yeah right imagine using iPad on constant brightness in the dark and lit room. You simply adapt your story to meet questions asked and the desired outcome - Apple conspiring against you. The more questions I will ask the more adaptations you will make. If I will ask if you measured power consumption on the wall socket you will immediately tell "yes i did it now consumes more". If I will ask if you measured battery charging capacity you will immediately respond "yes i did battery capacity is the same".
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 10:27:50Apple brings too many defenders of its products to disrespect other discussants as people
Apple has nothing to do with it. I call bs when I see bs.
"[...] You simply adapt your story to meet questions asked [...]"
Again, you question credibility of a discussant.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 11:27:26Again, you question credibility of a discussant.
Stop playing the victim card lol, it's not going to work in tech discussion. You made a claim that Apple is conspiring against you and they lowered your battery life by two hours.
Meanwhile you got:
a) zero evidence of increased socket power consumption in idle and load
b) zero evidence of battery capacity change
c) zero evidence of using any standardized test routine
d) subjective opinion based on _inconsistent_ day to day usage
That sums it up I think, unless you want to change your story again lol.
Let me remind you two principles of being credible in discussion:
1) Burden of proof is on a person making claim, not on person doubting it. I don't have to prove you anything. And you only have your ever-changing story and appeals to victim card as 'proof'.
2) All doubts are interpreted in favor of defendant aka Apple.
You scored 0 out of 2 credibility points my man. So yeah, I still call bs.
At the moment you have no evidence to change my mind so I don't see the reason to continue this conversation.
Quote from: A on November 22, 2023, 11:47:52Apple [...] lowered your battery life by two hours.
1 hour and 50 minutes.
QuoteMeanwhile you got:
a) zero evidence[...]
Your demands in this thread for evidence from me go far beyond everything any enduser or tech tester delivers in reports, reviews or tests. E.g., you have demanded to rely statistics on standardised full-time tests for the ca. three months before the drop in battery duration and the ca. two years afterwards. So instead of practically using the tablet and making my personal experience with it, you suggest to have used it for nothing but standardised full-time tests, best permanently filmed including evidence by, say, newspapers put besides the iPad to prove outside time. Such could provide the perfect evidence in court but, instead of collecting court-level evidence, I have simply used the tablet as an enduser with the extra of having regularly watched battery durations.
Quotechange your story again
As before, report instead of story. Increased details instead of change.
Quotetwo principles of being credible in discussion:
1) Burden of proof is on a person making claim, not on person doubting it. I don't have to prove you anything.
[...]
2) All doubts are interpreted in favor of defendant aka Apple.
It is nice to see your progress! Now, you do not any longer attack my person but you discuss method. Well, almost.
QuoteAnd you only have your ever-changing story and appeals to victim card as 'proof'.
This part does not fit an aim of proper discussion.
QuoteI don't see the reason to continue this conversation.
For the second time.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 12:49:26As before, report instead of story. Increased details instead of change.
Reports contain facts, your story contains only ever-changing subjective opinion based on unreliable inconsistent data. And you've tried to cover up lack of facts by making up details and pretending you are a victim of 'apple apologists'.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 12:49:26For the second time.
No, it's still that first time, you just can't stop. I call your story bs, I understand you kinda feel bad but well, be prepared to your tin foil hat conspiracy theories being debunked before posting them next time.
Quote from: A on November 22, 2023, 13:16:06Reports contain facts, your story contains only ever-changing subjective opinion based on unreliable inconsistent data.
The facts of my report include
- the event of the particular iOS update,
- the on average and close to 11:50 battery durations before the update,
- the on average and close to 10:00 battery durations after the update.
The variable aspects of my report include
- my very similar usage during the period of observation.
My subjective opinion includes
- the opinion that my very similar usage during the period of observation is good enough practical evidence that the particular iOS update was the only significant circumstance related to the drastic and sudden drop of battery life from the close to constant higher level to the close to constant lower level.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 14:18:23- the on average and close to 11:50 battery durations before the update,
- the on average and close to 10:00 battery durations after the update.
It's impossible, you weren't using device in the same way every time. So it's not facts, it's just your words vs. common sense. Plus yeah, your story changed again, now it's "on average", ok lol.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 14:18:23The variable aspects of my report include
- my very similar usage during the period of observation.
It is not very similar. Screen brightness was different every time, usage patterns were different, usage scenarios time was never measured (e.g. scrolling the webpage takes more power than idling at webpage, videos on webpage take additional battery power etc etc etc etc etc.) Plus you've never measured your actual battery capacity and have no idea if it's just battery wear.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 14:18:23My subjective opinion includes
All this bs is just your made up subjective tin foil hat theory that Apple conspires against your iPad while ignoring common sense and reasonable critique that there are million other reasons for _seemingly_ lower battery life.
Sry, I did not say I were using the iPad in the SAME way - I said "very similar" and described it.
The average and most frequent value is 11:50 before / 10:00 after the update. Too hard to understand for you?
For the winter period, when the update occurred, brightness could be similar because a) I almost always used the device at the same place with the same environmental light conditions, b) for similar periods of day / night conditions and c) I always adjust the brightness as closely as possible to a pleasant level, which I can do consistently because my lighting perception is consistent.
For the summer half of a year, I also was outdoors. If so exclusively, I consistently got ca. 5 hours after the update. If mixed indoors / outdoors, then in between these 5 and the 10 hours of pure indoor use. During the following two winters with again pure indoor use, it again was the 10 hours. Sorry for not having mentioned summer experience before.
I know that it was not battery wear because that started noticably only later after 3 or 3 1/2 years when it fell slowly and continuously from the 10h indoors or 5h outdoors to first slightly, then somewhat lower values.
Why do you ride so much on battery capacity and external wattage measurements? What matters for the enduser is his actually experienced battery duration.
Millions of other reasons, LOL. Why not trillions. One of that many different bugs iOS might have got to affect battery life from the day of the iOS update on. It is not that I was "holding it wrong" from exactly that day on, or maybe Steve Jobs would disagree;)
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 16:27:23For the winter period, when the update occurred, brightness could be similar because
'Could be' haha. Could-would facts.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 16:27:23Why do you ride so much on battery capacity and external wattage measurements? What matters for the enduser is his actually experienced battery duration.
Because your 'end user' battery life is remaining battery capacity _in Wh_ / your avg consumption in W.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on November 22, 2023, 16:27:23c) I always adjust the brightness as closely as possible to a pleasant level
There you go. Top-notch battery life measurements with unknown periods of different brightness levels. Smh..
Come on, man, just stop it. Not even funny anymore.
Just a note before ending this topic: I cannot tell you the brightness levels because the GUI of i(Pad)OS does not denote them by numbers.