The internet backlash against industry insider Dusk Golem and the revocation of his status as a moderator on the ResetEra forums says much about the problematic nature of the "console wars" mindset and could impact the willingness of insiders to share information in the future.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-backlash-against-PlayStation-5-tipster-Dusk-Golem-says-more-about-the-toxic-console-war-mentality-than-about-the-PlayStation-5-or-Xbox-Series-X.487937.0.html
Big drama. Who cares about internet comments?
The dude straight up said he spun all of this nonsense to even the odds because he was upset Series X was receiving more criticism after Microsoft's latest event. He's the one stoking the flames of the console war and he was rightfully flamed for doing so.
Quote from: CD on August 17, 2020, 21:36:26
The dude straight up said he spun all of this nonsense to even the odds because he was upset Series X was receiving more criticism after Microsoft's latest event. He's the one stoking the flames of the console war and he was rightfully flamed for doing so.
He didn't say that he invented the stuff about "fake 4K." The way he presented it (as coming from devs he knows) was exactly the same way he presented other tips. Yes, in a Tweet thread, he said he spoke up because he felt things were too one-sided. HOWEVER, he never said he made anything up. Having a motivation does not mean someone's automatically lying. I feel that too many people are leaping from "he had a motivation" to "be made it up," without considering this. So much, so very much of news in the world, and not just in the tech space, comes out because someone has a particular motivation to put it out there. Is it problematic to have a motivation? It can be and it is at times. Does that mean you're lying? No, not necessarily. Does his statement align with what we know about RX 5700 XT hardware and 4K gaming? Absolutely. I have an overclocked 2070 super that's slightly more powerful than the PS5's GPU and barely any recent titles, barring Doom Eternal and Sekiro consistently deliver 4K/60 FPS. Again, having a bias does not automatically make someone a liar.
We have multiple showings of first party games running natively in 4K by Digital Foundry's analysis and we have a third party developer now directly speaking out against claims that the hardware struggles to deliver on native 4K content, or at a decent frame rate. Is it true that a game *in development* isn't running as well as it could or should? Absolutely. His framing of this information and his reasons for delivering it the way that he did are the problem. He has directly participated in console warring, he framed his information in a way specifically meant to incite console warring, and now he's upset that he got a predictable reaction and people are defending him for making his own bed he doesn't want to lay in.
Whether he's lying or not is irrelevant. He tried to push an agenda and it didn't work out for him the way he thought it would.
These Sony fanboys are completely crazy, I've seen tons of them recently threaten to stop supporting Sony because Horizon Zero Dawn got released on PC. What a bunch of fanatics. And yes looking the specs xbox one series X is more powerful than ps5 but who cares... Microsoft is even going to release a 4 flops xbox series S machine..
Quote from: Causation+Correlation on August 17, 2020, 21:55:54
Quote from: CD on August 17, 2020, 21:36:26
The dude straight up said he spun all of this nonsense to even the odds because he was upset Series X was receiving more criticism after Microsoft's latest event. He's the one stoking the flames of the console war and he was rightfully flamed for doing so.
He didn't say that he invented the stuff about "fake 4K." The way he presented it (as coming from devs he knows) was exactly the same way he presented other tips. Yes, in a Tweet thread, he said he spoke up because he felt things were too one-sided. HOWEVER, he never said he made anything up. Having a motivation does not mean someone's automatically lying. I feel that too many people are leaping from "he had a motivation" to "be made it up," without considering this. So much, so very much of news in the world, and not just in the tech space, comes out because someone has a particular motivation to put it out there. Is it problematic to have a motivation? It can be and it is at times. Does that mean you're lying? No, not necessarily. Does his statement align with what we know about RX 5700 XT hardware and 4K gaming? Absolutely. I have an overclocked 2070 super that's slightly more powerful than the PS5's GPU and barely any recent titles, barring Doom Eternal and Sekiro consistently deliver 4K/60 FPS. Again, having a bias does not automatically make someone a liar.
The article also states problems with 1080/60fps. There's no mid range that even struggles with 1080/60. Even a 1060 GTX or a 570 Rx can pull that off. Yet it's claimed. That alone sounds like blowing smoke just for the sake of doing so.
Quote from: CD on August 17, 2020, 22:27:25
We have multiple showings of first party games running natively in 4K by Digital Foundry's analysis and we have a third party developer now directly speaking out against claims that the hardware struggles to deliver on native 4K content, or at a decent frame rate. Is it true that a game *in development* isn't running as well as it could or should? Absolutely. His framing of this information and his reasons for delivering it the way that he did are the problem. He has directly participated in console warring, he framed his information in a way specifically meant to incite console warring, and now he's upset that he got a predictable reaction and people are defending him for making his own bed he doesn't want to lay in.
Whether he's lying or not is irrelevant. He tried to push an agenda and it didn't work out for him the way he thought it would.
Wow, well put! Totally what I wanted to say but I couldn't have put it this eloquently.
Wait... What? GTFO. Resetera is trash and it was clear what that jerkoff was doing. Gamers called out that asshole and you are attracting them for him giving false information. Jackasses like you are the reason why gamergate happened. Hi back to your hole loser.
It's ironic in the very article that talks about toxic fanboys, toxic comments exist.
If he's a real industry insider and he wants to stop talking because people can't accept negativity towards their favorite product, that should be considered as a loss for everyone.
Shame people, shame.
I get what the article is trying to say, but the notion comes from the assumption the guy had no ill will. The author means well.. hell I could see myself writing this. However the fact remains that someone in this line of work should do a better job choosing when and what to reveal. They being heat on ResetEra, and ResetEra has no journalistic obligation to tolerate recklessness.
Lol.. *they bring heat
Quote from: BlueSun on August 18, 2020, 03:10:14
Wait... What? GTFO. Resetera is trash and it was clear what that jerkoff was doing. Gamers called out that asshole and you are attracting them for him giving false information. Jackasses like you are the reason why gamergate happened. Hi back to your hole loser.
lol neogaf scum
Keep being loyal to a trash Sony system, and keep pretending Sony hasn't been making absolute trash games since PS3
Seriously who writes these utter trash articles. Notebookcheck should not hire these incompetent fanboys.
Quote from: Yenko Jewblow on August 18, 2020, 06:39:52
Quote from: BlueSun on August 18, 2020, 03:10:14
Wait... What? GTFO. Resetera is trash and it was clear what that jerkoff was doing. Gamers called out that asshole and you are attracting them for him giving false information. Jackasses like you are the reason why gamergate happened. Hi back to your hole loser.
lol neogaf scum
Keep being loyal to a trash Sony system, and keep pretending Sony hasn't been making absolute trash games since PS3
Yeah, HZD, GoW, Ghost of Tsushima, TLoU2, Persona 5, BloodBorne, Spiderman... Absolute trash games xD You can't be that ignorant and believe this BS you're writing xD
Thank you for this article. The way people behave on Neogaf for example is appalling when bad news hits the PS5. I believe they are the worst fanbase that I've ever interacted with.
Quote from: Peter25472 on August 17, 2020, 23:09:31
These Sony fanboys are completely crazy, I've seen tons of them recently threaten to stop supporting Sony because Horizon Zero Dawn got released on PC. What a bunch of fanatics. And yes looking the specs xbox one series X is more powerful than ps5 but who cares... Microsoft is even going to release a 4 flops xbox series S machine..
MS fanboy starts spewing fake news about PS5 - people call his BS = hurr durr they are bad PS5 fanboys, because they pointed out he's intentionally or not - lying. HZD was released on PC to show people what they are missing out. I didn't see nearly as much complaining about that than XBX fanboys copy-pasting the same ol' "more powerful" argument. Yeah, it is more powerful on paper. I'll get intereseted, when they present some impressive games for me to play on that "more powerful" machine. Without that they can have 20 tFLOPS of power, and still lose the race, by simply not having quality titles to go along with that. XBX fanboys kinda forget that GAMES are the most important part of a "gaming console" thing. Not specs on paper. By the end you're writing from a superiority perspective but in fact you're the fanboy here.
I'm sorry, but when multiple devs have confirmed 4k 60, then this comes as a bit suspect, baring in mind the problem can be attributed to their difficulties with developing for the hardware and not the hardware itself, since no other devs have vocalised issues on this and the fact is that this sticks out like a sore thumb by contrast, especiallysince the PS5 developmentshould be easier based on the developers keynote. I personally don't think someone so clearly in the MS band camp is particularly going to portray PS5 in a fair light.
With all this said, the PS5 is capable of exceeding the XSX GPU frequency and, as anyone should know, GPUs never operate at 100%. The reason behind this is to scale back resource consumption for better efficiency and to prevent thermals becoming a bottleneck.
Finally, and this is the biggest issue I have, is that TFs are not definitive indicators of performance. For example, 1 ps4 TF is not the same as 1 PS5 TF. With that in mind, using these to compare performance is futile, since these both use custom hardware, (I.e. different methods to get the same result). We can only speculate as to what the performance may be, however, my guess is negligable and even using TFs here, we can see that there's a 1. Something difference and 15% isn't that drastic that you will see any significance gains.
Regardless, Sony have incentive to work closely to push the best performance possible on their system and there has been nothing to indicate otherwise, excluding this guy. I also want to mention that we actually saw the RE3 remake run better out the gate on ps4/ pro, with the xbox having some issues that needed patching in regards to frames.
Besides, we have had industry insiders contradicting xbox's claims regarding "scalability". The case against them is that these industry insiders have stated it is actually difficult to do that and we have actively seen this issue with the now delayed Halo infinite being pushed back to 2021, just because Xbox don't want a gen cut off period- baring in mind this is at the expense of performance and otherwise indicating they're expecting a expensive console, which also confirms the recent leak of a console in the ballpark of 500 USD. It's also emphasised more by the Xbox Series S leaks hinting at a market attempt to shift focus from the more powerful and more expensive console.
Regardless, it seems Xbox's obsession with power and trying to undermine Sony has resulted in games being neglected. It stands to reason that, based on the streaming event alone, PS5 has it in the bag with the 100 million install base coming over from ps4 with reason to get the next gen, contrary to xbox's claims about saleability and the inevitable cut off period they have to accept, which acts as nothing more than damage control to the fact the xbox will be negligably more powerful in the performance gap and be more expensive with less focus on games. Both will he great consoles, granted, but generations aren't won with hardware and that's clear based on the runaway ps4 success with a slew of successful titles to boot.
Lastly, people calling out toxicity and using that as a means to be toxic and promote the XSX is, by definition toxic, when these same people are being 'salty' and 'toxic'. It stands to reason that everybody should take this with a mountain of salt until anything official is said, but there's at least nothing to concur with this "insider". If it angers you at the prospect of eithers success, then you are toxic. I mean, the hypocrisy in this thread is astounding.
Quote from: Debuchy on August 17, 2020, 20:31:32
Big drama. Who cares about internet comments?
Apparently everyone in this generation. People think they are revolutionary critics these days. Children with internet access and no filter.
Quote from: Zachary Law on August 18, 2020, 12:26:12
I'm sorry, but when multiple devs have confirmed 4k 60, then this comes as a bit suspect, baring in mind the problem can be attributed to their difficulties with developing for the hardware and not the hardware itself, since no other devs have vocalised issues on this and the fact is that this sticks out like a sore thumb by contrast, especiallysince the PS5 developmentshould be easier based on the developers keynote. I personally don't think someone so clearly in the MS band camp is particularly going to portray PS5 in a fair light.
With all this said, the PS5 is capable of exceeding the XSX GPU frequency and, as anyone should know, GPUs never operate at 100%. The reason behind this is to scale back resource consumption for better efficiency and to prevent thermals becoming a bottleneck.
Finally, and this is the biggest issue I have, is that TFs are not definitive indicators of performance. For example, 1 ps4 TF is not the same as 1 PS5 TF. With that in mind, using these to compare performance is futile, since these both use custom hardware, (I.e. different methods to get the same result). We can only speculate as to what the performance may be, however, my guess is negligable and even using TFs here, we can see that there's a 1. Something difference and 15% isn't that drastic that you will see any significance gains.
Regardless, Sony have incentive to work closely to push the best performance possible on their system and there has been nothing to indicate otherwise, excluding this guy. I also want to mention that we actually saw the RE3 remake run better out the gate on ps4/ pro, with the xbox having some issues that needed patching in regards to frames.
Besides, we have had industry insiders contradicting xbox's claims regarding "scalability". The case against them is that these industry insiders have stated it is actually difficult to do that and we have actively seen this issue with the now delayed Halo infinite being pushed back to 2021, just because Xbox don't want a gen cut off period- baring in mind this is at the expense of performance and otherwise indicating they're expecting a expensive console, which also confirms the recent leak of a console in the ballpark of 500 USD. It's also emphasised more by the Xbox Series S leaks hinting at a market attempt to shift focus from the more powerful and more expensive console.
Regardless, it seems Xbox's obsession with power and trying to undermine Sony has resulted in games being neglected. It stands to reason that, based on the streaming event alone, PS5 has it in the bag with the 100 million install base coming over from ps4 with reason to get the next gen, contrary to xbox's claims about saleability and the inevitable cut off period they have to accept, which acts as nothing more than damage control to the fact the xbox will be negligably more powerful in the performance gap and be more expensive with less focus on games. Both will he great consoles, granted, but generations aren't won with hardware and that's clear based on the runaway ps4 success with a slew of successful titles to boot.
Lastly, people calling out toxicity and using that as a means to be toxic and promote the XSX is, by definition toxic, when these same people are being 'salty' and 'toxic'. It stands to reason that everybody should take this with a mountain of salt until anything official is said, but there's at least nothing to concur with this "insider". If it angers you at the prospect of eithers success, then you are toxic. I mean, the hypocrisy in this thread is astounding.
Great essay. Nobody cares.
With the statements he made provably and by his own admission, false.
Perhaps the right thing to do in journalism would be to write an article recinding your previous articles that quote him?
This article makes out that there might be some truth in what he's saying, which tantamounts to libel.
Every single comment here proves the point of this article. And it is very true, the playstation fanbase cannot accept any sort of negative criticism towards Playstation regardless of its validity. It shows how ignorant and immature the fanbase is. What a shame.
A motive to distribute information in order to balance out 2 businesses which are in a competitive environment sounds rather off. I would think people would generally take a dim view of that in any sector involving any product. That's before we even get into the specifics of this story.
There is no console war between MS and Sony. It is only between Sony and Nintendo. Xbox is completely useless since all games available for it will be on PC.
isn't the only source in this article Dusk Golem?
It amazes me how toxic each side of the field is. I own all 3 major consoles and a decent PC. Every console fills a need in the segment and are targeted at different demographics. My one x is the most capable of the consoles, so I play my cross plat titles on it. Obviously there's no ghost of tsushima of last of us without PS4. I can play Skyrim or super Mario maker in bed or on the go with my switch. And my PC is for niche or obscure games like og fallout. If we could all adopt the philosophy that every gamer is equal and we are all just looking for a good time, then the toxicity would subside. Or maybe open forum gives people a voice that they will always abuse and spew hate with, so I'll just stay on my pedestal and enjoy gaming and leave the war to those who have nothing better to do. If the ps5 sucks and you don't want an Xbox, maybe you should stop gaming.
Playstation fan boys are like D. Trump followers, no matter what you say or show or proof they will remain blinded with their loyalty and I am very sure it is true about PS5 performance which is struggling with 3rd party games..etc
I have both current gen consoles and though I like XB1 X for most games for better software and performance but I cant ignore PS4 for few exclusives and VR. They are like my 2 eyes cant think of living with either 1 :)
I am sure next gen will be similar, I am only buying PS5 for VR support which is not going to change no matter what.
quote author=Atif link=topic=115741.msg406138#msg406138 date=1597856009]
Playstation fan boys are like D. Trump followers, no matter what you say or show or proof they will remain blinded with their loyalty and I am very sure it is true about PS5 performance which is struggling with 3rd party games..etc
I have both current gen consoles and though I like XB1 X for most games for better software and performance but I cant ignore PS4 for few exclusives and VR. They are like my 2 eyes cant think of living with either 1 :)
I am sure next gen will be similar, I am only buying PS5 for VR support which is not going to change no matter what.
[/quote]
LoL, not a fan boy here, havent owned any of them and still I think the reaction from the internet is somewhat expected.
Look at the whole thing here, have Sony shown games running on PS5? They DID. Lots of the games revealed has a "Capture in PS5" on them. So unless they're screwing people with fake info, yes PS5 can run 4K.
Have MS shown games running on XSX? Sadly NO. even that buggy-as-hell Halo gameplay reveal was later confirmed was running on a PC. It's only more than 2 months left, still no actual game shown running on XSX, and people keep saying it's the most powerful blah blah blah. What do you expect?
Oh, and on the matter of D.Trump. I hated him before. But you would be blind and stupid not to see the big picture of what he is doing now. And that changed my mind, so I support him now. Call me whatever you want, he's doing what needs to be done for the world (i.e stopping China expansion). And i like it.
This article feels like it is attempting to ignore the facts of the issue only to focus on the reaction, which is strange because the reaction is caused by numerous pieces of evidence coming to light contradicting his statements. On top of the fact that by his own admission he didn't make the argument in good faith.
It's like arguing that people shouldn't be convicted for a crime just because they had motive, means, opportunity and there is an abundance of evidence to prove the crime was committed.
There is a lot of cognitive dissonance in this article to be sure.
People aren't mad because they can't handle bad news about the PS5. People are mad because people like digital foundry, as well as countless 3rd party devs have shown legit evidence (as opposed to yesterday hear say) contradicting his "claims".
His admission that he had seen agenda just proved he was not arguing in good faith, and he didn't make a conclusion based on facts but drew a conclusion that he wanted to support his agenda.
To act as if the response isn't fundamentally bound to these facts is just flat out ridiculous.