NotebookCHECK - Notebook Forum

I am a fan of AMD so I want a laptop with 7970M, but this ENDURO problem concern me it seems like a big problem. My question is: If I buy a laptop armed with 7970M and AMD releases a patch in near future, will this patch fix it? Or if I buy 7970M now, ENDURO switching is beyond repair?
Thank you

ok
i've noticed that 680m has a max memory of 4gb.
so if a laptop have 2 slots of gpus,
can it be like 4x2=8gb sli ?

In terms of pricing the GTX680M is OK. Due to the fact if you look at past mobile GPU releases, the HD 7970M is on par with the GTX675M, ie GTX570M/HD 6970M. When AMD releases their HD 7990M the pricing would be the similar to that of the GTX680.

HD 7970m IS NOT ON par with GTX 675m, it outright flattens it, with the new 12.6 driver HD  7970m's performance will go up and so will GTX 680m with newer Nvidia driver. Doesn't help the fact that the reviewers never bothered to use new drivers for both GFX cards; this is a cause for concern about the accuracy and reliability of this review.

WHAT??!!7970M on par with 675M?? Sir, please study more on this issue before making such statement!! 7970M is much more powerful than 675M sin the 675M is only 580M!!

@ WOAOW: The official drivers didn´t work at the time of the review.

The 7970M has no official drivers yet, so not much can be judged.

380$ surcharge is astronomical and ludicrous for the 680m.  As they say a fool and his money are soon parted and this is no exception from my thinking, especially in current times.  Software will get better for the AMD brand, but your money never comes back once youve payed triple the price.

 Driver is always a problem with AMD's card. But I love AMD GPU ^^

Hint: Both card are good enough and future proof. You can play Battlefield 3 and Crysis at the same max settings. In fact, if you and your friends synchronize both games and a similar map, you can play both with the same mouse.

P.S: I ain't a NVidia's representative, I just work in NVidia in finance department.

P.S.2: Fortune, fame, mirror, vain, gone insane! But the memory remains! Just be happy with your card!

You can always change the low load gpu/memory clock on the 7970 to something lower to get more battery life, on the other hand the nvidia gpu seems to have more space for overclocking if you ever do need it. If you do buy mobile gaming amd gpus one thing i recommend is pay a few extra bucks to get one with thermal compound, the difference is usually very high and you will avoid overusing the fans which leads to less buildup of dust and, consequently, maintenance. My current laptop has a 5870m which i had to personally do this because the stock paste is horrible, and I think i'll go with the 7970m, although if there wasn't an inexcusable $200 price difference I would consider the 680m simply for nvidia's awesome driver support, like stated here before.

Quote from: NVidia's Worker on July 04, 2012, 19:45:42
Hint: Both card are good enough and future proof. You can play Battlefield 3 and Crysis at the same max settings. In fact, if you and your friends synchronize both games and a similar map, you can play both with the same mouse.

P.S: I ain't a NVidia's representative, I just work in NVidia in finance department.

P.S.2: Fortune, fame, mirror, vain, gone insane! But the memory remains! Just be happy with your card!

Isn't that a Metallica's song? Well, I don't about playing TWO games simultaneously, but the 7970m is good enough for me. I'd like to try the GTX 680m and know if the $200 price difference is worth it. I hope it is!

Quote from: jeffreybaks on July 04, 2012, 06:52:06
380$ surcharge is astronomical and ludicrous for the 680m.  As they say a fool and his money are soon parted and this is no exception from my thinking, especially in current times.  Software will get better for the AMD brand, but your money never comes back once youve payed triple the price.

You suffer from poor boy syndrome...$380 is not a lot of money at all, if it is to you then I suggest getting a better job.  The fact is the 680 gtx is a better overall card, more memory that you will need in the future, optimus, and superior 3D over the AMD card.  So just because you cant handle it, doesnt mean people are fools out there, we are rich for a reason.

Quote from: jeffreybaks on July 04, 2012, 06:52:06
380$ surcharge is astronomical and ludicrous for the 680m.  As they say a fool and his money are soon parted and this is no exception from my thinking, especially in current times.  Software will get better for the AMD brand, but your money never comes back once youve payed triple the price.

Nvidia is superior in every way. What's next, you're gonna want Intel to lower their prices? There's a reason why the superior manufacturer makes their product cost more than its rival's, it's because it's better. ***

Quote from: Garin on July 09, 2012, 20:24:03

Quote from: jeffreybaks on July 04, 2012, 06:52:06
380$ surcharge is astronomical and ludicrous for the 680m.  As they say a fool and his money are soon parted and this is no exception from my thinking, especially in current times.  Software will get better for the AMD brand, but your money never comes back once youve payed triple the price.

Nvidia is superior in every way. What's next, you're gonna want Intel to lower their prices? There's a reason why the superior manufacturer makes their product cost more than its rival's, it's because it's better.

Your "argument" (and that of the *** before you with his repulsive "we are rich for a reason" ***) is ***.  There is nothing like the Intel/AMD performance delta here.  Whether or not the card is affordable isn't the point, that is an unreasonable price increase for a pifflingly marginal difference in performance and utility.  If you think otheriwse you are a very strange person indeed, be it because you are a fanboy or simply fiscally irresponsible.  Sure, if you have the cash, feel free to***.  I won't stop you.  Just don't think your conspicuous consumption makes you better than others.

Spunjji, do you actually think there's a pifflingly marginal difference in performance between an Intel and amd processor? Please say no so I don't laugh you.

Ok listen, we're all fanboys here, and if you say you're not, even though you decided to interfere, you're contradicting yourself. Nvidia is superior. The 680m is faster, and power efficient. Trust me, if it was the other way around you'd be saying "HURF HURF RADEAN CURD IS FASTER, POWA EFFICHENT AND CHEEPER THAN NVIDIA LOLZ XDDD!!!!!". Am I right? Of course I'm right. Nvidia is superior and that's a fact, but I'm not gonna make you buy from Nvidia because of that. It's your money, you can do whatever you want with it. Just don't think spending less money makes you better than others. On a side note, mobile flagship video cards are almost on par, but for the desktop cards, the difference is incredible. I just love how the GTX 680 annihilates the 7970 like it's nothing. Even the GTX 670 annihilates the 7970 in a couple games.

Also, "we are rich for a reason" was completely unnecessary. People who buy from Nvidia are not rich, we just know what's "the best". Obviously, you're too *** to realize that. Alienware users are the real rich people, not us.

Here's a story for you Garbin. I have several acquaintances on welfare, who sit on their a** all day and don't work. They are what you would call, retarded, for real... One of them smokes pot all day, and he owns a lappy with this nvidia gpu. They spend a HUGE portion of their cheques on computer parts and accessories, or save up for killer gaming laptops, as it seems all the do is game. The girls simply own the top phones on the market and have plans that even a mid-class working man couldn't afford. NONE of these guy can (key word: "afford") any of the crap they have... they just want, and want, and want, like a gambler or addicted smoker. Being able to buy something doesn't mean you can actually afford it though. I guess they all think that spending more money for the better system makes them look cooler. "Hey look, I'm on welfare but I have a computer than even your parents who make a 6 figure income can't afford!". Well, I believe I've said it all...

So yes, I want the best chip on the market, this coolio-amazing nvidia gpu, sooo badly in fact. I know it's the best... But as retarded as I am, I don't think I'm at the point where I would buy this. Give me 30 more years when I'm riding my dream car and hopefully near retirement :)

That's a cute story, but you're just pointing out the obvious. Everybody knows there are people who do that. As for the "normal" human beings who "spend too much money", they buy extreme high end hardware (i7 3930k, 3-way 680 SLI, dual 256gb ssds in RAID 0) for benchmarks and doing 3d animation, photo editing video editing, virtual machines, FEM simulation and folding, not just "game" all day.

You act as if Intel/Nvidia costs a fortune. You can build a budget high end rig that costs $1200 that outperforms a $1600 notebook. A regular high end rig that costs $1900 that outperforms a $2500. As for an extreme high end rig that costs $3500, well let me just say that you're on top of the world. I just love how "notebook enthusiasts" spend thousands on the fastest hardware, but when Nvidia is mentioned, suddenly, all the drama and negativity comes out of nowhere because, really, the 680m outclasses the 7970m in every way. Radeon fanboys just think Cheaper = Better because the mobile flagship cards are almost on par. I bet they don't even know the desktop cards are not on par. I just love how Radeon fanboys say the 680m is "obsolete" because it wasn't released on the same day as the 7970m. Radeon always rushes their released in order to gain market share.

It seems fairly obvious that AMD's Enduro was the main reason why it's FPS scores were lower overall than the 680m competitor. I would hope that since this is the case, that AMD can and will show if possible, a way to disable it, or greatly improve it to help it keep up with Nvidia at some point this year.
With AMD, though, I doubt that they will do this, so as to not concede defeat and fault with it's new switching/power saving feature.
For the record, I now own the 7970m in my Clevo laptop, and I have had no problems with it thus far, and I am getting good game play and FPS marks in the games that I am playing. I have owned Nvidia GPU's in the past, and they were fine, until my Nvidia overheated and died on me last year.
The Bottomline for PC gaming as I see it is this- both GPU's are fine for games- with Nvidia being only slightly better in some games, so for me, this is a wash either way, and I save $300 dollars in paying less for what I have.   ;D
Yes, the 680M is a little more powerful/faster than the 7970M, and has more features that are nice for some people, but those things are not important to me (3D movies, video editing), so I feel no need to spend more money for things I don't need.

Honestly if you think buying the 680m is better then the AMD you clearly didnt read the review. Power save switching is really a new thing for notebooks and honestly if you are buying a mobile gaming "laptop" you shouldn't expect to get decent battery life. Theres a reason gaming laptops are referred to as "Desktop Replacements". If you want to p*** away $1100 dollars for an SLI setup that cant outperform a $550 dollar CrossFire setup then youre just stupid. And whats all this Intel is better then AMD bullshit? Why? Because benchmarks say so? Pffft. Guess how much benchmarks mean to the average consumer: 0   Most people probably have no idea what a benchmark even is. Im sorry but paying over $1000 bucks for an Intel core when you can buy a hex-core AMD that can be overclocked to 5+ ghz stable that costs around $300 is absolutely retarded. If you talk to most real PC builders they will tell you flat out that most people that arent enthusists will never notice a difference in performance between the top end Nvidia vs AMD or the top Intel vs AMD. In this economy the cheapest product with the best performance is always going to be then top product. Who cares if Nvidia is 30 watts more efficient or if it lasts roughly 45 minutes longer on Max brightness. Who the hell runs max brigthness on battery? Most gaming notebooks are plugged in all the time. Honestly most of you who commented are plain moronic. And Alienware is for rich people? Im not rich. Im only in the Army and I bought an Alienware M18xR2 with 7970ms CrossFired? so rich? no not really. Im just a money waster and PC enthusiest. Stop going around fanboying saying Intel and Nvidia are better then AMD. 3D is a stupid gimmick that 90% of people dont give a f*** about, power save is pointless on an i7 desktop replacement notebook, GPU switching can be disabled if you actually know how to use a computer XD and AMD scored just as well if not better on all the games they tested.Plus AMD can do CAD. Pretty sad that a $550 dollar card cant do CAD. Ill take my game shattering 7970m CrossFire setup for 550 bucks over a single 680m for 550 bucks any day and if you do otherwise your a ***. As for desktop GPUs? Why pay soooo much money for cards that will run practically all the games no faster then 2 cards whose combined price is cheaper in SLI or CrossFire? Exactally. No point. AMD is awesome and I applaud their continued improvement. Id slough it out with the under dogs then live at the top with the douche bags any day. ***. Youre the same people who will probably vote for Obama over Romney and claim you hate the so called "rich". Good luck with your wasted money with no real performance increase XD

Quote from: 94 Echo on August 09, 2012, 06:57:39
Good luck with your wasted money with no real performance increase XD

You have so many of your 'facts' wrong, that it hurts just to read your post!  Don't be so bitter.  Just because AMD is falling behind to curve and having to slash all of their hardware prices just to compete with a superior company doesn't mean you have to be all mad about it.  Complaining about prices and 'bang for the buck' are old arguments.  If someone wants a cheap product with absolutely horrible driver support, inferior Crossfire performance, increased power consumption, and higher heat output they will buy a computer with AMD inside.  If someone wants fair priced superior performing system that has top-notch performance, excellent driver support, superior SLI performance, they will buy a computer with Intel and NVidia inside.  Stop being a fanboy, and stop complaining about things costing too much.  It is what it is.  I work hard for my money and truly enjoy paying more for superior products.  Don't get mad - GET A JOB!

Quote from: DK on August 09, 2012, 15:05:57

You have so many of your 'facts' wrong, that it hurts just to read your post!  Don't be so bitter.  Just because AMD is falling behind to curve and having to slash all of their hardware prices just to compete with a superior company doesn't mean you have to be all mad about it.  Complaining about prices and 'bang for the buck' are old arguments.  If someone wants a cheap product with absolutely horrible driver support, inferior Crossfire performance, increased power consumption, and higher heat output they will buy a computer with AMD inside.  If someone wants fair priced superior performing system that has top-notch performance, excellent driver support, superior SLI performance, they will buy a computer with Intel and NVidia inside.  Stop being a fanboy, and stop complaining about things costing too much.  It is what it is.  I work hard for my money and truly enjoy paying more for superior products.  Don't get mad - GET A JOB!

*signed*

The the only fanboy is you. I've seen just as many driver issues with Nvidia. Infact the 680m has plenty of driver issues right now. So does the CrossFire setup I have. But honestly it depends on the game. I'm not fanboying. It iss stupid to pay more for Nvidia and Intel. I've seen the same performance out of all AMD rigs aas I have with Intel and Nvidia rigs. It comes down to how much money you are willing to spend and what your perferences are. How is AMD falling behind the curve? I fail to see that. They produced a highly successful and powerful GPU. They created the APU series that I've heard nothing but praise about (my uncle showed me how great it worked running BF3 on an HP Dv6) and they have created the first hex-core desktop processor. I think its actually intel and nvidia who are starting to feel the heat. You obviously aren't paying attention because you are too busy fanboying. I use products from both ends. I love Nvidias Tegra core and I have several Tegra devices. I use Intel inn my laptop and. One desktop. But they are in no way supiror to AMD. I'm sorry but benchmarks mean *** compared to actual gaming and processing situations. I've never had a problem with AMD on anything, be it drivers or abiility. ***. Honesyl its all matters of perference. And if AMD is so bad? Why are more 7970ms being purchased then 680ms? At least as far I've seen? Because the numbers speak for themselves. no one but a fool or a fanboy is going to spend double the amount of money for a product that isn't up to par with its price. And as for getting a job? I have a job. As started I'm US ARMY. ***. And even the majority of people who have jobs probably couldn't aford to spend double on a product that dosent perform better. Its called common sense. ***. You probably just read some s*** somewhere saying AMD has bad driver support. Nvidia and AMD have had bad driver support. Think before you post kids.

What you guys are saying?
Intel is way better than AMD, experience it yourself.Just get the i7-2600K or i5-2500K, they are faster than all AMD CPUs for gaming.And for Nvidia, it's true that GTX 680M isn't any better than HD 7970M, GTX 580M wasn't any better than HD 6990M.You should get the cheaper one or just AMD one.AMD is doing well in mobile GPUs.But Desktop GTX 680 is way better than HD 7970 and anyone calling HD 7970 as a better card is a AMD fanboy without a doubt.

I'm considering the 7970m based on this review since it has an advantage in the professional software department. However I'm concerned with the enduro issues. I hope AMD will rise to the occasion and fix the issues they seems to be having. We need AMD to be strong. It is better for us the consumers in the long run. Monopoly is not a good solution for us no matter who we are fans off.

Now really, I agree with Sparky's "no need to spend more money for things I don't need". If you need all the advantages of the 680M, buy that card because you're money would be well spend, but if you think that you don't need better battery life, etc., buy the AMD one and save money.

keep cool guys ... make sure to debate this issue politely
i'll follow this thread

Do not. I repeat: Do NOT buy the 7970M on a p170em platform. If your rig is an Alienware (has a mux design that can disable Enduro), or an upgraded Clevo HM series then go for it, otherwise you're doomed.

I'm one of hundreds who bought the p150em/p170em with the 7970M and the card underutilizes terribly because Enduro/drivers are messed up. We have done all the logging and reporting possible, and we're left out to dry by AMD and Clevo. It's been 4 months now since release and I can't even play WoW without dipping to 20-25 fps. It's shameful.

Here are a few threads, we even created a facebook group:-

forum.notebookreview(dot)com/sager-clevo/681666-7970m-survey.html
forum.notebookreview(dot)com/sager-clevo/682097-7970m-logging-thread-games-utilization-issues-only-post-logs-no-questions-please.html
forum.notebookreview(dot)com/sager-clevo/681999-make-7970m-enduro-public-get-backing-prominent-blogger.html
forum.notebookreview(dot)com/sager-clevo/686393-7970m-owners-poll-future.html

There are threads on rage3d and AMD's forums as well, although the one on the AMD forum got deleted by admin.

Please spread the word. We bought a flagship card that in-real-life scenarios performs like a mid-range card from 2 generations ago on the newest Clevo platform.

I own an Alienware M17xR4 with the 7970m in it.  I run Max Payne3, BattleField 3, Diablo3, starcraft 2, all absolutely maxed out except for MP3 which doesnt have MSAA at 16x, all games run flawlesly.  I turned off switchable graphics right out of the box to avoid any Enduro issues.  If you are looking for a portable rig that will dominate all games on the market right now. Alienware with 7970m is the way to go.  Cant comment on the 680m but IMO, from reading the benchmarks and user comments, if you have money to burn, go for it, otherwise, if you are like me and have somewhat limited income, the 7970m has ridiculous value and performance.  I am very pleased with AMDs  7970m card and I used to own only Nvidia cards.

Limited income and Alienware? Sorry, but that does not really fit together, does it.
If there were working drivers for the 7970m, this card would be the best value/performance one.

300-500 dollars extra for the slight increase in performance for the 680M is
not worth it, so being on a limited budget when thinking logically between
such minor gains does make sense, since it could seem like a waste to
upgrade unless you want the 3D vision, that could justify the 300+ increase
on a somewhat limited budget... "it's got to truly be worth it" IMO I will
wait until the 2013 GPU cards are released and save my money for a possible
compatibility, knowing ill get a truly noticeable increase justifying my
somewhat limited buying was worth the money and not just a comparable
impulse buy novelty. Make sense now?

In only one thing nVidia is better than AMD and it is marketing.. at the beginning they said 680m is something like 30% higher than 7970m and everybody was like WOW nerds... Then they said no no its only 14%, and now if you see 15 games the 10 are won by 7970m at ultra settings..
Then nVidia or nVidia fanboys will start to talk about extra futures in 680m like 120Hz, 3D, Physics which I bet no one uses those futures because are useless..
In the other hand AMD graphics cards as it known are better for video/photo editing and design but no one admit those are the futures which can be more useful than 120 Hz, 3D and Physics...
Isn't that marketing? or its only the fanboys?

Why doesn't anybody include hardware assisted video encoding/decoding into performance tests?
Do people not upload you tube videos? Or record and save off best gaming sessions?
Why is hardware assisted video encoding/decoding never brought up? In performance tests and discussions?
Is it a NSA issue? Am I going to get a knock on my door with NDAA letter and be disappeared?

Ich glaube...it depends on the kind of game you're going to play, and don't forget the processor and ram. Well.... keine Ahnung.

@Florian: Can you please update this review with the latest drivers now?? Now that both the cards have matured (along with their drivers) we'll know the REAL king of mobile GPUs in terms of gaming. Power efficiency ofcourse will be the same, that I know.

@Andrew: Dont know if you've bought your laptop yet or not, but to answer you, YES driver updates "can" fix Enduro but even when it is fixed, it wont be nowhere near as good as Optimus. I'm in favor of AMD too but fact remains, Enduro will take its time to match optimus, maybe in the next AMD flagship.

Maybe with the final catalyst 12.11 (the beta-driver still has some issues). Unfortunately, i have no time for a big comparison at the moment.

@Florian:
I too would love to see the results 12.11 would yield and I'll gladly wait for them.
With the current results I have just a single question. Are Alienware results with Enduro enabled or with Enduro forced off? When Enduro is enabled in these benches then wouldn't the results be higher for Alienware with Enduro forced off? (something AW can do, but the Clevo's can't).

Maybe we can do a little review around christmas, when AMD improved the DX-9-performance too (the improvements mainly concern DX-10- and DX-11-games at the moment). The Alienware-results in our database are from the non-endruo-mode. I think this is mentioned in the review.

Please note that i'm not an expert at graphics cards so i don't really know that much. :)
How come that in some of the videos I've seen regarding the GeForce GTX 680M and Radeon HD 7970M on the Alienware Mx18 the 680M seems to be performing at the same level as a  Dual 2GB GDDR5 AMD Radeon™ HD 7970M For example on Battlefield 3 Multiplayer. This leads me to the question can a single GTX 680M perform at comparable levels w/ a Dual 2GB GDDR5 AMD Radeon™ HD 7970M . I'm planning on buying a Alienware since you can disable Enduro and i'm having a hard time choosing between the SINGLE 2GB GDDR5 NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 680M - SLI® and Dual 2GB GDDR5 AMD Radeon™ HD 7970M.

Please note that i'm not an expert at graphics cards so i don't really know that much. :)
How come that in some of the videos I've seen regarding the GeForce GTX 680M and Radeon HD 7970M on the Alienware Mx18 the 680M seems to be performing at the same level as a  Dual 2GB GDDR5 AMD Radeon™ HD 7970M For example on Battlefield 3 Multiplayer. This leads me to the question can a single GTX 680M perform at comparable levels w/ a Dual 2GB GDDR5 AMD Radeon™ HD 7970M . I'm planning on buying a Alienware since you can disable Enduro and i'm having a hard time choosing between the SINGLE 2GB GDDR5 NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 680M - SLI® and Dual 2GB GDDR5 AMD Radeon™ HD 7970M.

Can anyone recommend a good software monitor for a GTX 680M? HWMonitor shows me everything except the GPU temp. Thanks!

i was 4 months ready stuff to chose the bets laptop/gpu with the best price/performance and i go for the clevo p370em with the 7970m that dont have enduro problems because it dont have intel gpu to swith, and im realy happy with it :D, i remember in the beginning most of people talking badly about the 7970m because of the enduro problem, but give 2 times more money (680m) for what? just dont have drivers problem, YOU WANT A GAMING LAPTOP AND I READ GUYS SAYING OHHH THE 680M HAVE MORE BATTERY LIFE AND LESS HEAT AND LESS CONSUMES OF ELECT AND YOU PAY THE DOUBLE FOR HAVE JUST THAT? THE BENCHMARKS IN GAMES IN THIS REVIEW SHOWS THAT THE AMD IS BETTER THAN 680M OVER!!!! AND HE HAVE THE ENDURO PROBLEMS LOOOOOOOOL, HONESTLY I THINK IS SO STUPID THE WASTE OF MONEY IN THE 680M... SO EACH ONE HAVE A BRAIN TO THINK SO MAKE YOUR CHOICE ;)

Hi! What should I buy? Thanks!  :)

P.S. I can afford the 680M, but want to know what do you think! It is for Crysis 3.

Crysis? What crysis?